A ORLOV Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Steve0 said: Which is why their valuations are ludicrous! Someone mentioned £500K for Poole - for what? The rights to promote speedway in that area? It only takes one rider to challenge the asset system for it to be deemed illegal (and therefore no value in club asset terms) Said a while ago the riders are worth virtually nothing as they can decide to stop riding or just ride abroad or pack the sport in due to an injury. So the value is a couple of tractors etc and the shale on the track plus a bit of goodwill for the clubs name. The only other value would be if the club owned its track or a minor amount if leased. I can see if one club wishes to pay another for the use of a rider they had trained up then fine but they do not have an "asset". Edited November 2, 2018 by A ORLOV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamish McRaker Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 Alun Rossiter makes slightly unfortunate choice of words. Shock of shocks. Well maybe but that's down to Jason Doyle to call out isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 20 hours ago, orion said: Quite ..you would think that Phil would have had better things to do than pick up on a minor choice of words . Many on here pick up on less, including you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagonshocker Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 I think what Rosco was getting at was it makes sense to consider negotiating with a rider you do not have to pay a loan fee out for ....not really seeing the point of a debate over what an asset means other than simply that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bald Bloke Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 17 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said: ASSETS have no legal basis. A rider without a contract is a free agent. In Poland if a club wants to sign a rider under contract to another track a transfer fee could be involved. But if he has no contract then he can sign for who he wants. So when Somerset wanted Chris Holder for the 2018 season, there where reports that Ford wouldn't loan him, and that he said they would have to buy him, he wanted £ 20k. So in fact Ford couldn't do that. Is that correct ?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 9 minutes ago, Bald Bloke said: So when Somerset wanted Chris Holder for the 2018 season, there where reports that Ford wouldn't loan him, and that he said they would have to buy him, he wanted £ 20k. So in fact Ford couldn't do that. Is that correct ?. Legally.. but it's all a game of favors.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray c Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 9 minutes ago, Bald Bloke said: So when Somerset wanted Chris Holder for the 2018 season, there where reports that Ford wouldn't loan him, and that he said they would have to buy him, he wanted £ 20k. So in fact Ford couldn't do that. Is that correct ?. Exactly but we were going to use him I think but who knows how it works ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bald Bloke Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 6 minutes ago, ray c said: Exactly but we were going to use him I think but who knows how it works ? I'm thinking Ford thought, I want to use him, but if you have £20k you can have him .. Who knows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray c Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 13 minutes ago, Bald Bloke said: I'm thinking Ford thought, I want to use him, but if you have £20k you can have him .. Who knows I just think if your not going to use a rider how can you stop him riding elsewhere and demanding a loan fee ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bald Bloke Posted November 2, 2018 Report Share Posted November 2, 2018 1 hour ago, ray c said: I just think if your not going to use a rider how can you stop him riding elsewhere and demanding a loan fee ? That's what I thought Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairboy Posted November 3, 2018 Report Share Posted November 3, 2018 As a speedway fan who also follows football, I am always amazed that this mysterious 'asset' system remains in speedway. There was a time (not so long ago) when football clubs owned player's registrations, and even at the end of a player's contract could stop a player from playing for someone else, unless a transfer fee was paid between the clubs. This all changed, of course, with what became known as the 'Bosman' ruling by the European court. A Belgian player got his lawyers to argue (successfully) that when his contract with a particular club came to an end he should be free to seek new employment wherever he wished. These days, transfer fees are only paid between football clubs for players who wish to move while they are still under contract. I would suggest it would only take one speedway rider with a decent lawyer to bring this system to an end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted November 3, 2018 Report Share Posted November 3, 2018 12 hours ago, ray c said: I just think if your not going to use a rider how can you stop him riding elsewhere and demanding a loan fee ? you can't. Sooner or later this will be a court case. Assets are a farce, there's no such thing in reality. When a contract runs out a worker can do what he wants and no court would deny this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted November 3, 2018 Report Share Posted November 3, 2018 1 hour ago, ch958 said: you can't. Sooner or later this will be a court case. Assets are a farce, there's no such thing in reality. When a contract runs out a worker can do what he wants and no court would deny this Probably before it runs out, given there is no minimum salary and seems employer can terminate at any time for any reason, so presume rider can too? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblueboy Posted November 3, 2018 Report Share Posted November 3, 2018 2 hours ago, waiheke1 said: Probably before it runs out, given there is no minimum salary and seems employer can terminate at any time for any reason, so presume rider can too? Of course, he is self employed. I always have a chuckle when people get their knickers in a twist when a rider chooses a Polish League fixture over the Elite League. Rider is their own boss and can choose whatever pleases them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted November 3, 2018 Report Share Posted November 3, 2018 30 minutes ago, theblueboy said: Of course, he is self employed. I always have a chuckle when people get their knickers in a twist when a rider chooses a Polish League fixture over the Elite League. Rider is their own boss and can choose whatever pleases them. BUT they must also adhere to the terms of their various contracts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted November 3, 2018 Report Share Posted November 3, 2018 22 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said: BUT they must also adhere to the terms of their various contracts Otherwise their contracts could be terminated...oh hang on, they can be anyway. And what happens again if they aren't being paid per the terms of their contract? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Blachshadow Posted November 3, 2018 Report Share Posted November 3, 2018 (edited) 17 hours ago, Bald Bloke said: So when Somerset wanted Chris Holder for the 2018 season, there where reports that Ford wouldn't loan him, and that he said they would have to buy him, he wanted £ 20k. So in fact Ford couldn't do that. Is that correct ?. Don't you just wait till March 1st when any rider not being used is fair game? Seem to recall this precedent being set by some club or other four or five years back. Edited November 3, 2018 by Vincent Blachshadow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booey boy Posted November 3, 2018 Report Share Posted November 3, 2018 55 minutes ago, Vincent Blachshadow said: Don't you just wait till March 1st when any rider not being used is fair game? Seem to recall this precedent being set by some club or other four or five years back. Poole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted November 3, 2018 Report Share Posted November 3, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Booey boy said: Poole You are rather a bitter bunch on here arnt you. Still keep chomping, only another 5 months til the season starts. Edited November 3, 2018 by Starman2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinmauger Posted November 3, 2018 Report Share Posted November 3, 2018 (edited) Any sign of the big Lego trucks yet ? Not being sarcy by the way, failing that anyone nearby able to take some pics of the pegged-out new track shape. When Hull returend in 1995 I bunked off college several times to have a look, watched the marking out of the track shape, removing turf, etc and <<family forum mode: on>> forgot my flipping, blinking camera each and every blooming time. Still passed my City & Guilds and enjoyed 11 years of speedway so it was (mostly) ok.... Edited November 4, 2018 by martinmauger grammar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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