chunky Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, Aces51 said: It always strikes me as odd that many of those who prefer the one off world finals, where you qualify and then it's all down to a final where everyone starts equal, prefer that the team finishing with most points accumulated over a season should win the league title and those who prefer the GP's, where the rider who gets the most points over a season wins, prefer the play offs where you qualify and then it's all down to a final where both teams start equal. Logically, you might expect those who prefer the one off world final to prefer the play offs and those who prefer the GP's to prefer the team that finishes top of the league to win the title. Like I said, I preferred the atmosphere, and the spontaneity of the old system, but in fairness to the riders, I totally support the idea of a GP system. The problem is that most who liked the old World Finals have probably not been involved in serious competitive sport. As someone who has been involved in such sport for some 40 years, I appreciate the value of fairness to the competitors. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, Col said: Playoff's you can blame U.S. T.V. for..... Or the viewers, who watch it. Not sure what it has to do with GP's. The thing to remember is that in the US, playoffs are a little different, with the leagues not giving teams an equal number of games against the other teams. Rather than having divisions based on current ability/results, divisions are geographical, with all team supposedly at the same level. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, Col said: But it is the only Sport where the league isn't decided by Play Offs I watch. - I don't watch any format of Cricket. Surely that has little or nothing to do with playoffs? We watch sports because we enjoy WATCHING the sport, regardless of formats and rules. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 1 minute ago, chunky said: Like I said, I preferred the atmosphere, and the spontaneity of the old system, but in fairness to the riders, I totally support the idea of a GP system. The problem is that most who liked the old World Finals have probably not been involved in serious competitive sport. As someone who has been involved in such sport for some 40 years, I appreciate the value of fairness to the competitors. Steve I do get the variations in views here, but the old system wasn't as straight forward as compering the two systems. ALL riders had to earn the right to be in each round, no-one was given a wildcard, no one was put in the title hunt because of there place of birth. the quality of standard is obviously higher today, just as a competition, I think opinions would clearly be split Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 1 minute ago, chunky said: The thing to remember is that in the US, playoffs are a little different, with the leagues not giving teams an equal number of games against the other teams. Rather than having divisions based on current ability/results, divisions are geographical, with all team supposedly at the same level. Understood. So why when we are in a Country where every team is within a reasonable travelling distance do we have Playoffs? Because it makes good TV. Not sure with Airports everywhere US can really make a case for playoffs anymore. Except its good TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 Just now, ColinMills said: I do get the variations in views here, but the old system wasn't as straight forward as compering the two systems. ALL riders had to earn the right to be in each round, no-one was given a wildcard, no one was put in the title hunt because of there place of birth. the quality of standard is obviously higher today, just as a competition, I think opinions would clearly be split Some of what you say is true, but some isn't... I understand the concept - particularly as far as injuries are concerned - but I am not totally convinced with wild cards. However, there were always limits (certainly in mainland Europe) where countries were allotted a certain number of places in the FIM events based on the quantity and level of their riders. However, a system like that is never going to be fair or equitable, and some riders were always going to penalised because of their nationality. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Col said: Understood. So why when we are in a Country where every team is within a reasonable travelling distance do we have Playoffs? Because it makes good TV. Not sure with Airports everywhere US can really make a case for playoffs anymore. Except its good TV. Americans generally aren't interested in complicated league scenarios or closely contested matches. They only things that mean anything are wins and losses, and lots of goals/runs! Take snooker against pool. Americans don't like snooker because it is harder to pocket the balls, and it involves scorekeeping. Pool, they just have to pocket a few balls, and then the 8-ball. Steve Edited September 23, 2018 by chunky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, chunky said: Some of what you say is true, but some isn't... I understand the concept - particularly as far as injuries are concerned - but I am not totally convinced with wild cards. However, there were always limits (certainly in mainland Europe) where countries were allotted a certain number of places in the FIM events based on the quantity and level of their riders. However, a system like that is never going to be fair or equitable, and some riders were always going to penalised because of their nationality. Steve I may be wrong here, but from memory, didn't tai enter the gp system as a wildcard in 2013? if im wrong in this, (I hold hands up if wrong)….wasn't this due to lack of british riders qualifying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 Just now, ColinMills said: I may be wrong here, but from memory, didn't tai enter the gp system as a wildcard in 2013? if im wrong in this, (I hold hands up if wrong)….wasn't this due to lack of british riders qualifying? You may be right, but obviously the GP system has changed so much since it was introduced. We know that BSI want certain riders from certain nations, and while I think the GP system is very good, I think that the qualification process for the series could be vastly improved. Sad thing is that in the 70's and '80's, British fans wanted world speedway to revolve around British speedway, because it was the best, but it has really deteriorated into Tai being the ONLY true world-class rider. Everyone was horrified when Trevor Hedge was the only Brit to qualify for the 1970 World Final, but there were still many world-class riders (the Boococks, Betts, Ashby, McMillan etc). Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 1 minute ago, chunky said: You may be right, but obviously the GP system has changed so much since it was introduced. We know that BSI want certain riders from certain nations, and while I think the GP system is very good, I think that the qualification process for the series could be vastly improved. Sad thing is that in the 70's and '80's, British fans wanted world speedway to revolve around British speedway, because it was the best, but it has really deteriorated into Tai being the ONLY true world-class rider. Everyone was horrified when Trevor Hedge was the only Brit to qualify for the 1970 World Final, but there were still many world-class riders (the Boococks, Betts, Ashby, McMillan etc). Steve yes, Wembley had the majority of finals, but in those days, most riders (and the best) rode in Britain. today Poland gets 3 rounds, they now have the best. Tai clearly is the only true world class rider in Britain. its such a shame belle vue isn't the gp venue, its an amazing track that easily produces the best racing in this country Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 3 hours ago, Steve Shovlar said: They need another person in the studio to give another perspective and play against the 2 we currently have who just agree with each other. Need a more controversial face to be argumentative. That would work well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 1 hour ago, ColinMills said: of course, I liked the idea of going in a stadium, with all riders starting level. of course we could all pick no-hopers in the field. (except jerzy of course), he shocked everybody. yes, agree, riders became out of contention by half time. consistency can win you the world title now, but you still needed consistency in the old system too, you didn't just appear in the final. I don't disagree with you in what you say at all, its just a preference. I prefer speedway in the 70s, I don't think it was better quality, theres loads of factors, but again it may be a generation thing Of course it was better, bigger crowds, better atmosphere. Average meetings seemed awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, BWitcher said: Of course it was better, bigger crowds, better atmosphere. Average meetings seemed awesome. You are forgetting one other thing - SPEEDWAY SEVEN DAYS A WEEK!!! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 Anyone else notice Nigel explaining why Nicki P missed out to Lindgren for the 8th semi final, "because he had a dnf"? No Nige, it was because he scored a point less than Freddie! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 Great win for Tai last night and he now has to finish the job off in Torun, which he done before of course. To much of an ask IMO for Smarzlik to pull those points back. Looks like a bit of a scrap for the eighth place with Sayfutdinov, Laguta and possibly Zagar all within reach of the injured Dudek, one things for sure if Dudek was to drop out of the top eight that would take care of one of the wild card picks for next year. Best news of all however is that it appears Craig Cook has not suffered any broken bones from last nights crash and is intent on riding tomorrow at Belle Vue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 9 hours ago, adonis said: depends if you believe the yard stick for best ever is based on world titles , I can think of a dozen british riders who never won a world title ,but were far better than woffinden will ever be I've been watching Speedway since the mid 60's and Woffinden is the best British rider I have seen, might have been others who could be brilliant on their day but I've never seen one as consistently great. Not only that he is the best 1st turn rider I've ever seen of any nationality. I'd struggle to think of any riders who were FAR better and he still has plenty of time to catch those who are only just ahead of him in my opinion. As for the GP it started off badly but improved and ended up being far better than I expected. Woffinden did what only the very best can do and pulled the wins out of the hat when it really counted. Without bad luck he'll be a well deserved 3 times World Champion. He has also matured into a Champion kids can look up to, you only have to see his response to the disqualification at the last round to know that, he must have wanted to scream and shout but didn't. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adonis Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Vince said: I've been watching Speedway since the mid 60's and Woffinden is the best British rider I have seen, might have been others who could be brilliant on their day but I've never seen one as consistently great. Not only that he is the best 1st turn rider I've ever seen of any nationality. I'd struggle to think of any riders who were FAR better and he still has plenty of time to catch those who are only just ahead of him in my opinion. As for the GP it started off badly but improved and ended up being far better than I expected. Woffinden did what only the very best can do and pulled the wins out of the hat when it really counted. Without bad luck he'll be a well deserved 3 times World Champion. He has also matured into a Champion kids can look up to, you only have to see his response to the disqualification at the last round to know that, he must have wanted to scream and shout but didn't. there you go again using world titles as a yard stick , and as for first turns what have you been watching because you have completely missed the master first turn bully Doyle , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces51 Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, screm said: Best news of all however is that it appears Craig Cook has not suffered any broken bones from last nights crash and is intent on riding tomorrow at Belle Vue. Have you seen something to confirm that, last night he said he was aiming to ride but that he did have broken bones. Would be great news if you're right. Edited September 23, 2018 by Aces51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adonis Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 9 hours ago, spin king said: Interesting who is his son? go on Bwitcher show your complete lack of integrity by bringing my son into it , you really are a disgusting creature . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 8 hours ago, ColinMills said: I do get the variations in views here, but the old system wasn't as straight forward as compering the two systems. ALL riders had to earn the right to be in each round, no-one was given a wildcard, no one was put in the title hunt because of there place of birth. the quality of standard is obviously higher today, just as a competition, I think opinions would clearly be split Totally wrong about wildcards.Think riders were even given byes into the actual world finals.And some riders only had to do 1 or 2 rounds whilst others 4,5 or6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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