German GP Teterow Saturday September 22nd

[r8gdp]

4 minutes ago, JCookie said:

Fair play, not a fan of Woffinden but he's streets ahead of anyone else this year. Just a shame to see him so nonchalant about winning it, he's virtually guaranteed yet another world title and he seems like he couldn't care less.

Psychology could have been in play looking at zmarzlik he must be wondering what he s got to do to ruffle woffy s feathers the final was a big big race woffy got the drop and was in the right place at the right time and went onto win the final but more importantly keeps a biggish gap between him and zmarzlik 

[Hodgy]

7 minutes ago, adonis said:

hahaha  if woffininden wins it another 10 times ,he'll still be a long way off being the best British rider ever , not least because he's really an Aussie 

As I see it, Wofffffinden has matured immensely last couple of seasons. Wasn’t a fan during the earlier arrogant (immature) years - guess most of us would be the same thrust into the high life so young. He is a Brit but fully understand an allegiance to the country his parents emigrated. I was cheering him on, despite my £1 on Zagar. 

[adonis]

20 minutes ago, Steve Shovlar said:

They need another person in the studio to give another perspective and play against the 2 we currently have who just agree with each other. Need a more controversial face to be argumentative.

I'll do it . all you need to do is say it like it is . more than enough controversial for the rose tinted glasses brigade

[tyke]

28 minutes ago, Steve Shovlar said:

They need another person in the studio to give another perspective and play against the 2 we currently have who just agree with each other. Need a more controversial face to be argumentative.

Are you putting yourself forward Steve 

[nw42]

19 minutes ago, tyke said:

Are you putting yourself forward Steve 

He'd probably get banned before the first ad break

[OveFundinFan]

32 minutes ago, Hodgy said:

As I see it, Wofffffinden has matured immensely last couple of seasons. Wasn’t a fan during the earlier arrogant (immature) years - guess most of us would be the same thrust into the high life so young. He is a Brit but fully understand an allegiance to the country his parents emigrated. I was cheering him on, despite my £1 on Zagar. 

Same with me, still don't particularly like the person, though he has changed for the better. I found I was saying to myself "c'mon Tai" more then once tonight...… but some of that was because I like him more then I like Zmarzlik.

I did think the meeting was going to be called off after heat 3, especially when it started to rain again. But the track was worked on well, turned it around into a race track and some of the later heats were really good. Having said that, there must be a better track to take the GPs too.

I do hope Vaculik gets a wild card next year, along with Nicki.

[Aces51]

The state of the track was obvious. Why didn't they take off the top surface before it started? That way we could have had a chance of some decent racing from the beginning and a couple of riders probably wouldn't have been injured and had to withdraw from the meeting.

Woffinden came good when it mattered and deserved his win. Whether he is the best British rider ever is obviously open to debate but I don't think you can compare different eras. You could argue that it is more difficult at present because you have to be consistent throughout the season but you can afford a couple of poorer meetings and that ignores that the qualifiers for the one off finals were run throughout the season and in the final you couldn't usually afford to drop more than 2 points to win it. 

[adonis]

7 minutes ago, OveFundinFan said:

Same with me, still don't particularly like the person, though he has changed for the better. I found I was saying to myself "c'mon Tai" more then once tonight...… but some of that was because I like him more then I like Zmarzlik.

I did think the meeting was going to be called off after heat 3, especially when it started to rain again. But the track was worked on well, turned it around into a race track and some of the later heats were really good. Having said that, there must be a better track to take the GPs too.

I do hope Vaculik gets a wild card next year, along with Nicki.

i think the germans have as many problems with nimby;s as we do , the old international track at Pocking is still standing  but they are not allowed to use it ,  and next year this round will be in the UK  ,so the teterow one might be in July in better weather 

[adonis]

3 minutes ago, Aces51 said:

The state of the track was obvious. Why didn't they take off the top surface before it started? That way we could have had a chance of some decent racing from the beginning and a couple of riders probably wouldn't have been injured and had to withdraw from the meeting.

Woffinden came good when it mattered and deserved his win. Whether he is the best British rider ever is obviously open to debate but I don't think you can compare different eras. You could argue that it is more difficult at present because you have to be consistent throughout the season but you can afford a couple of poorer meetings and that ignores that the qualifiers for the one off finals were run throughout the season and in the final you couldn't usually afford to drop more than 2 points to win it. 

depends if you believe the yard stick for best ever  is based on world titles , I can think of a dozen british riders who never won a world title ,but were far better than woffinden will ever be 

[nw42]

14 minutes ago, adonis said:

depends if you believe the yard stick for best ever  is based on world titles , I can think of a dozen british riders who never won a world title ,but were far better than woffinden will ever be 

No you can't.

[teijahn]

1 hour ago, Orbiter said:

More pits action more riders interviews, or at least something different the studio is boring them lemons in there just agree with each other all the time its cringe worthy, also they must stop opening the bloody pit gates after a restart get the 2 minutes on and send the riders back to the start. 

Getting female commentators out of a (man's) sport (trackside as well) that they have no competitive experience in would be a real good start.  There are enough good ex riders about whose knowledge and experience give them an insight to track conditions and racing that could enable the bimbo like questions and opinions to be replaced with intelligent comment. 

[Trotter65]

Is Woffinden the best ever British rider ?..as a relative old timer I would say no but then it's impossible to compare pre GP era to the GP era

The GP's have been one of the best things for top level speedway in my opinion as the old World Finals were definitely coming to the end compared to the 70's and change was needed.....but Woffinden has won GP's from scoring 8 , 9 or 10 in the  20 heats which would never win a one off meeting...and if he'd ridden like in the GP a couple of weeks ago in say the Inter Continental Final then he wouldn't have even qualified for the World Final that year so the margins for error were much less back then..one bad race or one fall or engine failure and you wouldn't win a world title....now you can have plenty of those and still win the Title..so that's why it's impossible to say Woffinden is better than Collins for instance..purely judging world titles cannot prove that

Having said that , the best rider in the world in any era is the best at that time and Woffinden is the best now and would have been one of the best back in any era but with probably less world titles due to the smaller margin for error back then

Edited September 22, 2018 by Trotter65

[ColinMills]

7 minutes ago, Trotter65 said:

Is Woffinden the best ever British rider ?..as a relative old timer I would say no but then it's impossible to compare pre GP era to the GP era

The GP's have been one of the best things for top level speedway in my opinion as the old World Finals were definitely coming to the end compared to the 70's and change was needed.....but Woffinden has won GP's from scoring 8 , 9 or 10 in the  20 heats which would never win a one off meeting...and if he'd ridden like in the GP a couple of weeks ago in say the Inter Continental Final then he wouldn't have even qualified for the World Final that year so the margins for error were much less back then..one bad race or one fall or engine failure and you wouldn't win a world title....now you can have plenty of those and still win the Title..so that's why it's impossible to say Woffinden is better than Collins for instance..purely judging world titles cannot prove that

Having said that , the best rider in the world in any era is the best at that time and Woffinden is the best now and would have been one of the best back in any era but with probably less world titles due to the smaller margin for error back then

never been a fan of the gp era, but that's probably cos im old school. don't like the fact riders can "settle" for places. in the one offs you would chase everything to be world champion. the format favours certain riders. but hey, a brit leads the charge, and obviously happy with that, and im all for woffy chasing a record breaking world title total

[spin king]

Sign of a champion is that they can turn it on when the chips are down and the pressure is on.

Tai proved tonight that when it matters he can turn it up an extra gear, and deal with whatever he has thrown at him.

Those who can do what Tai does care the one's that more often than are champions once more on numerous occasions.  

[Col]

I'm not old enough to remember Lee or Carter let alone any British rider that came before.

Woffinden is far better a rider than the two British World Champions I can remember. Havelock was the rider who adapted best to atrocious conditions in Wroclaw on the date of the 92 World Final. Whereas Loram couldn't win an Event but was the most consistent over the (what?) 6 GP's of 2000.

Certain a 10 point lead for Woffinden is enough tp mean he only needs to complete 3 heats in Torun.

After the 1st hour, quite enjoyed the meeting. But fail to see why Germamy deserve to host a GP.

Hope Hancock doesn't nick Bronze in Torun.

Glad Sayfutdinov looks back on form to qualify for next year.

Speedy recovery for Cook & Vaculik.

[chunky]

28 minutes ago, Trotter65 said:

but Woffinden has won GP's from scoring 8 , 9 or 10 in the  20 heats which would never win a one off meeting...and if he'd ridden like in the GP a couple of weeks ago in say the Inter Continental Final then he wouldn't have even qualified for the World Final that year so the margins for error were much less back then..one bad race or one fall or engine failure and you wouldn't win a world title

Yes and no.  Maybe you would lose a World Final because of a fall, and e/f, or one poor gate - but that is hardly fair either.  Look at PC in 1975, or Jessup in 78, for example.

However, as far as qualifying rounds, things like the Commonwealth, Overseas, and Inter-Continental finals were the complete opposite.  The top 9, 10, or even 11 would qualify for the next round.

So, there are flaws whichever way you look at it, but a GP system is much fairer for EVERYONE, and reduces the chances of one small thing costing you a title that you have worked hard all year for.  That cannot be a bad thing...

Steve

Edited September 22, 2018 by chunky

[ColinMills]

3 minutes ago, chunky said:

Yes and no.  Maybe you would lose a World Final because of a fall, and e/f, or one poor gate - but that is hardly fair either.  Look at PC in 1975, or Jessup in 78, for example.

However, as far as qualifying rounds, things like the Commonwealth, Overseas, and Inter-Continental finals were the complete opposite.  The top 9, 10, or even 11 would qualify for the next round.

So, there are flaws whichever way you look at it, but a GP system is much fairer for EVERYONE, and reduces the chances of one small thing costing you a title that you have worked hard all year for.  That cannot be a bad thing...

Steve

 

Steve

but wasn't it nice to turn up at a world final with all 16 riders starting on the same tally? imagine a gp final round with that scenario? 

[chunky]

1 minute ago, ColinMills said:

but wasn't it nice to turn up at a world final with all 16 riders starting on the same tally? imagine a gp final round with that scenario? 

Doesn't matter.  ALL riders have the same opportunity to score the points.  Trouble is, these days people think that doing exactly what the supporters want is more important than being fair to the riders.  Do we want the BEST rider to win, or do we prefer a lottery?

Steve

[Andy Downes]

1 hour ago, adonis said:

depends if you believe the yard stick for best ever  is based on world titles , I can think of a dozen british riders who never won a world title ,but were far better than woffinden will ever be 

Adonis - I don't know how old you are but if like me, you have been a fan of the sport for 30 years or more, I think you tend to remember riders from earlier periods more fondly and rate them higher than current day riders. It's not Woffy's fault that bikes are now set up like rocket ships, competing on slick tracks and the argument that modern riders couldn't deal with the amount of shale or different bikes will always be a hypothetical one. You can only race and beat what is around you at the time and I would argue that the successful riding styles are almost unrecognisable to those of say the 70's or 80's which in turn are totally different to those in the 30's and 40's (if the action in Once a Jolly Swagman is anything to go by) . You would like to think a top rider of one period though could adapt to the style of another era.

At the end of the day though it's all about opinions, I respect yours but I don't agree with it.

[Gavan]

1 hour ago, adonis said:

depends if you believe the yard stick for best ever  is based on world titles , I can think of a dozen british riders who never won a world title ,but were far better than woffinden will ever be 

No you couldn’t 

What a stupid statement to make.