Slovenian GP Krsko Saturday September 8th

[MARK246]

1 hour ago, Sidney the robin said:

Also why did Phil Morris not CONDEMN the decision in his interview very disappointed in him surely he has an opinion.

 

The referee made a decision, which in his interpretation of the rules, at the time of the incident, was correct. What is there to condemn ?

[r8gdp]

31 minutes ago, MARK246 said:

The referee made a decision, which in his interpretation of the rules, at the time of the incident, was correct. What is there to condemn ?

Because it was wrong other riders in that race were not ready so why just exclude woffenden seems very very fishy to me . The referee is a total embarrassment and made this years gp a farce if zmarzlik carry s on and wins this episode will overshadow him becoming the champion.   Lots of riders on the night were spending a lot of time gardening at the start wonder how many of them went over the two minutes no for me the referee was bent and should not be allowed anywhere near a speedway meeting again 

[OveFundinFan]

2 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

Also why did Phil Morris not CONDEMN the decision in his interview very disappointed in him surely he has an opinion.

Maybe if you met Phil Morris in your local pub he may express his thoughts to you, but in his official capacity I wouldn’t expect him to say much in front of 10’s of thousands.  Tai didn’t even criticise the ref, “it is what it is” he said. I missed the top three being interviewed but did they criticise the ref.?

for sure, WE are almost unanimous the ref got that wrong, just as WE think the ref at Cardiff got things wrong, but I reckon we not going to hear much from the higher ups in speedway/FIM, if anything. In time we might notice if Saturdays ref, and indeed Cardiff’s ref, officiate at a GP again. Only then will we know what the official verdict is..

hopefully some sort of official response will be made re starts in general, clarify and adhere to

1 the amount of time between races

2 the amount of time once all four at at the tapes before green lights, this is to cut down on gardening

3 that when the start marshal indicates a rider moves forward the rider does actually move forward 

4 transponders

5 random computerised timing for tapes release

6 in case of false start, riders back to tapes without mechanics out on track

[norbold]

I agree with everything being said about the ref and THAT decision. The ridiculous thing is though that the way Tai was racing he probably would have come last in that race anyway. So the ref's really done him a favour as he has an excuse now if he finally loses by one or two points. Although personally, I don't think he will. I think he is too determined and too professional to let his lead slip altogether now.

[OveFundinFan]

It’s not a cert he would have come last,Norbold.  You had two Poles in serious medal positions, and Hancock fighting for top eight position. Anything could have happened on the first bend, and if tai had not gated he was on a good gate position, 3, for him to do his known cut back on bend 1-2 to snick the lead or second, who knows.

i would like to know honest thoughts from riders re the refs antic in heat 16. It’s interesting some poster last night said many Polish fans say the refs decision was wrong.

sad thing is,even if the ref is reprimanded nothing can be done about the race result. And if Zmarzlik goes on to win the championship because of that poor decision I would feel sorry for him because it will be said it’s all because of a Polish ref.

[Sidney the robin]

22 minutes ago, OveFundinFan said:

Maybe if you met Phil Morris in your local pub he may express his thoughts to you, but in his official capacity I wouldn’t expect him to say much in front of 10’s of thousands.  Tai didn’t even criticise the ref, “it is what it is” he said. I missed the top three being interviewed but did they criticise the ref.?

for sure, WE are almost unanimous the ref got that wrong, just as WE think the ref at Cardiff got things wrong, but I reckon we not going to hear much from the higher ups in speedway/FIM, if anything. In time we might notice if Saturdays ref, and indeed Cardiff’s ref, officiate at a GP again. Only then will we know what the official verdict is..

hopefully some sort of official response will be made re starts in general, clarify and adhere to

1 the amount of time between races

2 the amount of time once all four at at the tapes before green lights, this is to cut down on gardening

3 that when the start marshal indicates a rider moves forward the rider does actually move forward 

4 transponders

5 random computerised timing for tapes release

6 in case of false start, riders back to tapes without mechanics out on track

I just think in this day/ age you should be able to express an opinion.The referee also should be held accountable for his bizarre decision the weird thing is the GP series is designed to make sure the right rider win's the title that decision could change that and cost Tai bigtime.

[OveFundinFan]

Phil obviously loves his job, you can see the effort he puts in, and full marks for him doing that, BUT, like many others, you can’t go slagging off fellow workers when you on national tv, sorry international tv, as much as you or I may want him to. It’s just not done. Don’t know what your job is (was), Sidney, I reckon you wouldn’t last long if you went slagging off to all and sundry a fellow colleague in a high position - and yes I reckon a ref at a Gp is in a high position, there is only 10 this year. I don’t think even in this day and age anyone can say anything about everything.

[Gavan]

I wouldnt say Holder was back on it, just had his bikes set up from the gate and was able to slot into scoring positions. Did well when Lindgren was hard on him but was the only rider pretty much to be overtaken when Tai passed him.

A good meeting for him yes , but the track was a gaters paradise hence the riders scores were pretty much bunched together.

No surprise to me that the top scorers in the qualifiers had either gates 1 or 3 twice. Doyle to be fair was lucky to end up on 13 as he benefitted from both Janowski and Cook breaking down.

Hancock would have been top scorer on 12 which shows that riders were all beating each other depending where they started from.

[Aces51]

4 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

It was a really poor meeting but it was great to see Doyle back on it and even greater to see a better Chris Holder he battled really hard.

I agree with you and would add that it was good to see Craig Cook scoring points. He got 5 and would have had a very respectable 8 but for the snapped chain. It's a bit too late in the season but domestically and now in the GP's Craig is getting back to his best and showing that he can compete at the highest level.

[James Carter]

10 hours ago, waiheke1 said:

Tbf, there is not a lot wrong with the GPs is there? World class line up, Generally excellent racing, some great tracks and some excellent stadiums. 

A couple of poor tracks and a couple of poor stadiums, but for the most part the series is everything you could want it to be.

I will admit there have been a couplecof terrible refs this year (cardiff also springs to mind). The starts are cleaner and more even than ever, all thats needed is a way to ensure the race isnt called back when rider's make a perfect start - no issue for me with the warning system per se. 

I don't think there is much wrong either. I think people are getting into a flap about the starting procedure. If you look back at the starts now to what you had in up to the mid 80s its so much better now. Its not perfect but i think its good enough. OK you oet the start marshall getting a bit involved but it doesn't really matter. Its exactly the same in Poland so all the riders would have experienced this

The biggest problem for SGP is going to terrible tracks.  The on-screen product is the most important thing if speedway wants to attract a larger audience. So regardless of the terrible decision on the night i think it would be safe to assume that it would have put off no speedway newbies as they would have had to sit through 15 races of garbage to get to that point

By the way i thought the way Tai Woffinden conducted his interview after the exclusion was commendable. Top man.

 

[Sidney the robin]

10 minutes ago, Aces51 said:

I agree with you and would add that it was good to see Craig Cook scoring points. He got 5 and would have had a very respectable 8 but for the snapped chain. It's a bit too late in the season but domestically and now in the GP's Craig is getting back to his best and showing that he can compete at the highest level.

He is getting there and he looked quick at the Abbey last week.What i notice about Craig now is Aces he is riding different lines experimenting he was riding right up to the fence at Swindon he is not a one trick pony he has more improvement in him i am sure of it.

[Orbiter]

2 hours ago, OveFundinFan said:

Phil obviously loves his job, you can see the effort he puts in, and full marks for him doing that, BUT, like many others, you can’t go slagging off fellow workers when you on national tv, sorry international tv, as much as you or I may want him to. It’s just not done. Don’t know what your job is (was), Sidney, I reckon you wouldn’t last long if you went slagging off to all and sundry a fellow colleague in a high position - and yes I reckon a ref at a Gp is in a high position, there is only 10 this year. I don’t think even in this day and age anyone can say anything about everything.

Tbh Phil Morris remained professional throughout that interview he kept what he thought to one side, had he gone the other way it would of been unprofessional. 

[IainB]

GP at Leicester would have been more entertaining than this!

It was interesting to compare the reactions of Woffy and Serena Williams over 2 "unjust" decisions at the weekend, perhaps Woffy should have called the ref anti Aussie 

Was this the same Start Marshall that was dicking about so much at the recent Wroclaw matches? Some of the marshalling I've seen at Polish matches this year has been beyond stupid with the Marshall trying to move riders laterally even when they're bang in the middle of their start gate!

Championship is far from over, did BZ prove himself to be a bit of a choker at the weekend? He could have had the lead down to 4 points but failed to capitalise

[Sidney the robin]

6 hours ago, OveFundinFan said:

Phil obviously loves his job, you can see the effort he puts in, and full marks for him doing that, BUT, like many others, you can’t go slagging off fellow workers when you on national tv, sorry international tv, as much as you or I may want him to. It’s just not done. Don’t know what your job is (was), Sidney, I reckon you wouldn’t last long if you went slagging off to all and sundry a fellow colleague in a high position - and yes I reckon a ref at a Gp is in a high position, there is only 10 this year. I don’t think even in this day and age anyone can say anything about everything.

You are right  Ove of course  you don't need to SLAG  the guy  off,and by the way he is only a referee he should be made accountable not be aloud to just move on to his next meeting.Like anybody in a workplace if you make a mistake you have to hold your hands up he walks away scott free and says nothing.If Tai does lose the title because of that decision is that right? it was such a strange decision if you exclude Tai the rest of the riders in that race would have to go as well. Another  point worth making as well would a John Berry or a Eric Boocock not of made there views known i think so.

[sommelier]

Fab Country, not the best of racing but a thoroughly enjoyed the weekend, roll on next year

[racers and royals]

2 hours ago, iainb said:

GP at Leicester would have been more entertaining than this!

It was interesting to compare the reactions of Woffy and Serena Williams over 2 "unjust" decisions at the weekend, perhaps Woffy should have called the ref anti Aussie 

Was this the same Start Marshall that was dicking about so much at the recent Wroclaw matches? Some of the marshalling I've seen at Polish matches this year has been beyond stupid with the Marshall trying to move riders laterally even when they're bang in the middle of their start gate!

Championship is far from over, did BZ prove himself to be a bit of a choker at the weekend? He could have had the lead down to 4 points but failed to capitalise

They might be bang in the middle- but if they are not pointing straight- then they will be told to move. In my view the starts in the polish league are far better than Sweden and the UK solely because the start marshalls have to do what the refs tell them- and the refs want 1/ riders up to the tapes 2/ pointing straight ahead- not at an angle(gate 4 normally asked to move). the Krsko ref is obviously well thought of in Poland as he is doing the final 1st leg next Sunday

Edited September 10, 2018 by racers and royals

[IainB]

54 minutes ago, racers and royals said:

They might be bang in the middle- but if they are not pointing straight- then they will be told to move. In my view the starts in the polish league are far better than Sweden and the UK solely because the start marshalls have to do what the refs tell them- and the refs want 1 riders up to the tapes 2 pointing straight ahead- not at an angle(gate 4 normally asked to move). the Krsko ref is obviously well thought of in Poland as he is doing the final 1st leg next Sunday

Ah, is that what it is... Thanks for the info

[waytogo28]

"It is what it is" is a shrewd reply and a clever one from Woffy. It could be the stinking, putrid, corrupt mess that it was. Or it could be an acceptance of things working out as they will. One view gets punished the other one is seen as thoughtfully reflective.

[Ghostwalker]

1 hour ago, racers and royals said:

They might be bang in the middle- but if they are not pointing straight- then they will be told to move. In my view the startys in the polish league are far
better than Sweden and the UK solely because the start marshalls have to do what the refs tell them- and the refs want 1 riders up to the tapes 2 pointing
straight ahead- not at an angle(gate 4 normally asked to move). the Krsko ref is obviously well thought of in Poland as he is doing the final 1st leg next Sunday

It is the same in Sweden. The starter have a wireless headset so that he/she can communicate with the referee. However a really good start marshall
already knows what to do and doesn't need for the referee to be told what to do (according to Krister Gardell).

Unfortunately almost no one of you understands Swedish because there was a pretty good Swedish speedway podcast episode where
they had a longer talk with Krister Gardell about refereeing, start procedures, referee boxes/towers, start marshalls and etc.
 

Edited September 10, 2018 by Ghostwalker

[AFCB Wildcat]

Having watched the incident several times now I think that what went against Tai was the fact the start marshall called him forward twice and he completely ignored him both times. The other 3 at least moved forward when beckoned although admittedly were still messing around when he walked away. Zmarzlik was still rolling towards the line as the clock hit zero so clearly not ready to race but I think Tai was the worst offender for ignoring the start Marshall's instructions however bad he was which is why he was made an example of.

At the end of the day it was in his own hands and with a Polish ref he shouldn't have given him the opportunity to exclude him with so much at stake.