2019 One big league will it happen.?

[Danny Connor]

Crowds have been stable over the last couple of season from my view. I guess the 1st couple of seasons in the el they were busier but that was because of enthusiasm of the move up. There always seems to be plenty of youths at lynn too. I don’t think it’s as doom and gloom at lynn as it is many other tracks.

 

i hate the idea of 1 weakened league and I probably won’t attend as regularly as I do now. I love having lambert and Niels. There is a jump in class from them to the others. If I have to miss a meeting now it’s a big deal to me. If it’s all 1 championship and the prices are similar then that’s not really on. And I would maybe slacken a bit. 

 

the pl is still a good league. Very even really. And fixed race nights have improved the league in terms of more stable teams. Just not attendances. But it’s early days still. It needs people like the team gb branding team, who really seem to know what they are doing, to promote the sport in a better way at club level. Maybe if it was promoted better then more companies would be willing to advertise through it and the teams may be able to make it pay. It’s alright say8ng an independant body needs to run it but it needs to be the right independant body who can come in and make it more vibrant again. Give it meaning and purpose. Lynn won in a last heat decider on Monday and I felt like I was the only one buzzing about it. I was nervous before the race and buzzing after.

Where has that fan passion gone? If we don’t care then what’s the point

[Bagpuss]

6 hours ago, waytogo28 said:

An assessment made by observation by a group of four longtime fans at KL. Including the upstairs seats. We have seen the stadium rocking and bursting at the seams and believe that we are making a fair and balanced assessment of those present. If only we were privy to the genuine turnstile click totals. We are confident that we are not far off with the figures stated. It is not an attack on the promotion, we want to see 1,500 on a bad night and 2,500 on a regular basis.  We just can't see that happening due to the way it is run at KLS and as a sport in general in the UK.

With respect then crowds APPEAR to you to be 'half of what they were' in 2015 and the figures you quote. I too could do a few fag packet estimations and mine would suggest that despite dropping a little (no doubt due to inconsistent fixtures and increased admission prices) crowds most certainly have not halved and I very much doubt they have dropped below 1k very often if ever.

Don't get me wrong, British speedway is in a pretty bad place but Lynn's crowds are better than most and with four meetings during the summer holidays (why not six?) one would like to think we will have some healthy attendances during that time - weather permitting of course.

[A ORLOV]

16 minutes ago, Bagpuss said:

With respect then crowds APPEAR to you to be 'half of what they were' in 2015 and the figures you quote. I too could do a few fag packet estimations and mine would suggest that despite dropping a little (no doubt due to inconsistent fixtures and increased admission prices) crowds most certainly have not halved and I very much doubt they have dropped below 1k very often if ever.

Don't get me wrong, British speedway is in a pretty bad place but Lynn's crowds are better than most and with four meetings during the summer holidays (why not six?) one would like to think we will have some healthy attendances during that time - weather permitting of course.

It does seem very short sighted to only have four meetings during the holidays as more children will go and also, even in the KL area, when I lived there there were plenty of holiday makers not too far away from KL who might attend.

[StevePark]

People are assuming that, because it's the school holidays, people are going to rock up at the speedway.  Families still go away for a week or two because it's the school holidays, so don't assume they don't.

[LisaColette]

22 minutes ago, StevePark said:

People are assuming that, because it's the school holidays, people are going to rock up at the speedway.  Families still go away for a week or two because it's the school holidays, so don't assume they don't.

Or they might do a staycation and visit Poole, after all there are beaches what more could they want? 

[Sidney the robin]

2 hours ago, A ORLOV said:

It does seem very short sighted to only have four meetings during the holidays as more children will go and also, even in the KL area, when I lived there there were plenty of holiday makers not too far away from KL who might attend.

You know more than most on this issue ORLOV Swindon usually get 1000 plus i would say 1200 plus everyweek on a good day v Poole , zummerset  even more I think even with the delay in fixtures ( 5 weeeks?)  the crowd is holding up ok.

Edited July 29, 2018 by Sidney the robin

[A ORLOV]

3 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

You know more than most on this issue ORLOV Swindon usually get 1000 plus i would say 1200 plus everyweek on a good day v Poole , zummerset  even more I think even with the delay in fixtures ( 5 weeeks?)  the crowd is holding up ok.

I would say slightly more than the numbers you state, and the crowd is holding up ok.  It is noticeable  that there is a slight drop for certain opposition.

I would imagine tomorrow against Wolves should get a good turnout 

[Sidney the robin]

1 minute ago, A ORLOV said:

I would say slightly more than the numbers you state, and the crowd is holding up ok.  It is noticeable  that there is a slight drop for certain opposition.

I would imagine tomorrow against Wolves should get a good turnout 

The only thing. I would say ORLOV is how many people get in for free?  that has to stop i think,?.Tomorrow I hope for a 13/14.  00 crowd but the track needs to be better fingers crossed eh! 

[Bagpuss]

2 hours ago, StevePark said:

People are assuming that, because it's the school holidays, people are going to rock up at the speedway.  Families still go away for a week or two because it's the school holidays, so don't assume they don't.

It's not an assumption, Lynn's school holiday crowds have historically been very good. I'm sure people do go away but equally there are holiday destinations local to Lynn so you would expect some tourists to attend too.

[mikebv]

On 7/27/2018 at 8:58 PM, g13webb said:

Probably as good a suggestion I have read.   No doubt a lot of time has been devoted to recognise the issues that are bound to exist, but overall pretty good.   I have always thought there is very little to choose between the strength of the two leagues,     and have said before, nothing will ever prosper while  promoters have different agendas. for this sport to works  we have to all want the same thing... 

I find it amazing that our closest rivals are in the other league elimination many local derby clashes.    Having a North and South divide  would allow more spectators to travel and generate a more intense local rivalries..   A win,  win situation..

Exactly... Ipswich for example must be better off surely riding twice a season at home, in a bona fide League competition, that has credibility, against 'local' rivals such as KL, Peterborough, Mildenhall, Rye House and Lakeside than once a season against Glasgow, Edinburgh, Berwick, Redcar, Newcastle, Workington, Sheffield and Scunthorpe?. (Ten matches against 'local rivals' rather than eight against teams a minimum 3 hours plus away MUST deliver better crowds you would imagine)

You can still race once a season against the teams from 'The North' to add variety to the competition but race more often against your 'Southern' neighbours..

Getting the team strengths right would be important to encourge teams to maybe leave the NL and five man teams may facilitate that...

'Championship Lite' would be the standard I would think that possibly could be affordable maybe?

No1. Current Championship No.1, 3 or 5/Premiership No.3, or 5 (many are the same rider!!)

No2. Current Championship No.3 or 5/Premiership No.2 or 4 

No3. Current Championship No.2 or 4/Premiership No.6

No4. Current Championship No.6/ NL No.1, 3 or 5

No5. Current Championship No.7/NL No.2 or 4...

Grade riders for each sector of the five team places and use an overall mean average of all the riders within the Grades to deliver a team total that teams cannot go over (ensuring no team can pay out more money to entice the best riders out of each Grade)...

Affordable to deliver one bigger league of say 16 to 18 teams split into North and South?

And all teams race on nights they feel with deliver their biggest crowds, with the caveat that if you want to use a GP rider (or ones with GP/World U21/SEC/Overseas Leagues intentions and ambitions) then you don't get to use guests to replace them should you decide to run on Tuesdays/Wednesdays/Fridays/Weekends...

(If GP riders ride for the money on offer obviously) which would be a fair few quid less than current I would suggest...

£15 admission (tops), £5k per team per night salary cap..

'Stars' may be lost. (And let's be honest, not many generate 'extra' on the gate now anyway)...

But 'new Stars' will be found....

And a British League with a heavy majority of GB riders can only help the National Team in the long run too surely?

 

Edited July 29, 2018 by mikebv

[waytogo28]

10 hours ago, mikebv said:

Stars' may be lost. (And let's be honest, not many generate 'extra' on the gate now anyway)...

But 'new Stars' will be found....

And a British League with a heavy majority of GB riders can only help the National Team in the long run too surely?

 

Spot on! We cannot afford ( in whatever way you use the word ) to carry on paying out the top whack for riders. The UK speedway scene is in great peril and unless the BSPA are ruthless and brave over the next few months there will be nothing recognisable left of the sport in the UK for any fans to watch.

[MattK]

I don't think anyone will dispute that crowds were bigger 10 years when we has more top riders. Whether this is causation or simply correlation is open to debate.

Over the last ten years the league has been gradually weakened and in turn crowds have fallen.

What on Earth makes anyone think that a significant weakening of the product will not result in a similar decline in crowd numbers?

[DC2]

20 minutes ago, MattK said:

 

What on Earth makes anyone think that a significant weakening of the product will not result in a similar decline in crowd numbers?

 

A significant weakening of the price?

 

[MattK]

3 minutes ago, DC2 said:

 

A significant weakening of the price?

 

How weak will this new league be? Championship clubs charge a few quid less and don't enjoy bigger crowds than their more expensive Premiership counterparts.

National League teams charge significantly less and in turn have small crowds than Championship clubs.

I'll admit that one big league may enjoy a slight halo effect of being the "top" league, but I see nothing to suggest that weakening the product and in turn dropping the price will allow for crowd numbers to be sustained, let alone entice fans back.

[Aces51]

It is also true that crowds started to drop in the 1980's and have continued to decline ever since, despite the fact that for much of that period the big stars were still here. There is little, if any, evidence to support the argument that a return of the top stars will result in any sustained increase in crowd numbers.

The only viable option now is to build a model that allows the majority of clubs to operate within their financial means and that can provide a basis on which to rebuild the sport on a sound financial footing.

Edited July 30, 2018 by Aces51

[foamfence]

1 hour ago, MattK said:

How weak will this new league be? Championship clubs charge a few quid less and don't enjoy bigger crowds than their more expensive Premiership counterparts.

National League teams charge significantly less and in turn have small crowds than Championship clubs.

I'll admit that one big league may enjoy a slight halo effect of being the "top" league, but I see nothing to suggest that weakening the product and in turn dropping the price will allow for crowd numbers to be sustained, let alone entice fans back.

Almost all clubs at the top two levels are running at a loss or very near to it, they can only run at an affordable level and as several are likely to close or apply for NL membership, one league would seem to be the only option. It is now about survival rather than anything else.

[GWC]

3 hours ago, MattK said:

I don't think anyone will dispute that crowds were bigger 10 years when we has more top riders. Whether this is causation or simply correlation is open to debate.

Over the last ten years the league has been gradually weakened and in turn crowds have fallen.

What on Earth makes anyone think that a significant weakening of the product will not result in a similar decline in crowd numbers?

So do you have an alternative to this?

A PL with probably 6 or 7 (if Swindon survive) teams will surely be too limited in its appeal to spectators. I know at Rye it was questioned why we had jumped into a restricted league to watch more predictable racing. The cost factor will eventually kill it. 

[Najjer]

1 hour ago, foamfence said:

Almost all clubs at the top two levels are running at a loss or very near to it, they can only run at an affordable level and as several are likely to close or apply for NL membership, one league would seem to be the only option. It is now about survival rather than anything else.

Why clubs are running at a loss in the top division?

[Najjer]

On 7/29/2018 at 8:27 AM, Danny Connor said:

Crowds have been stable over the last couple of season from my view. I guess the 1st couple of seasons in the el they were busier but that was because of enthusiasm of the move up. There always seems to be plenty of youths at lynn too. I don’t think it’s as doom and gloom at lynn as it is many other tracks.

 

i hate the idea of 1 weakened league and I probably won’t attend as regularly as I do now. I love having lambert and Niels. There is a jump in class from them to the others. If I have to miss a meeting now it’s a big deal to me. If it’s all 1 championship and the prices are similar then that’s not really on. And I would maybe slacken a bit. 

 

the pl is still a good league. Very even really. And fixed race nights have improved the league in terms of more stable teams. Just not attendances. But it’s early days still. It needs people like the team gb branding team, who really seem to know what they are doing, to promote the sport in a better way at club level. Maybe if it was promoted better then more companies would be willing to advertise through it and the teams may be able to make it pay. It’s alright say8ng an independant body needs to run it but it needs to be the right independant body who can come in and make it more vibrant again. Give it meaning and purpose. Lynn won in a last heat decider on Monday and I felt like I was the only one buzzing about it. I was nervous before the race and buzzing after.

Where has that fan passion gone? If we don’t care then what’s the point

 

3 hours ago, MattK said:

I don't think anyone will dispute that crowds were bigger 10 years when we has more top riders. Whether this is causation or simply correlation is open to debate.

Over the last ten years the league has been gradually weakened and in turn crowds have fallen.

What on Earth makes anyone think that a significant weakening of the product will not result in a similar decline in crowd numbers?

 

3 hours ago, MattK said:

How weak will this new league be? Championship clubs charge a few quid less and don't enjoy bigger crowds than their more expensive Premiership counterparts.

National League teams charge significantly less and in turn have small crowds than Championship clubs.

I'll admit that one big league may enjoy a slight halo effect of being the "top" league, but I see nothing to suggest that weakening the product and in turn dropping the price will allow for crowd numbers to be sustained, let alone entice fans back.

 

These 3 posts are SO bang on the money. Bravo

[MattK]

50 minutes ago, GWC said:

So do you have an alternative to this?

I do not have enough information to suggest an alternative. Without details of attendance figures, club's P&L and rider's wage structures any suggestions would be meaningless.