Teromaafan Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 My understanding is that a new rule was introduced this season (Regulation 15.8.1) regarding heats being re-run after a rider has been disqualified. This seems to a sensible rule aimed at protecting a team on a 'certain' 5-1 when an opponent causes the race to be stopped, with the rider in third place at the time put on a 15m handicap in the re-run. In heat 1 of the Swindon v Leicester match last night, my recollection was that Bellego was well adrift of the Lions pair when Morris kissed the dirt. As so often happens, that 5-1 was wiped out when Bellego flew from the tapes in the re-run. If Bellego wasn't handicapped in this instance, what is the criteria for the handicap to be implemented (Kelv and Nige never brought the matter up)? The rule states that it is at the referee's discretion, but there has to be a basic yardstick for them to consider making the call. So what is it? Has anyone attended a meeting where the re-run handicap was applied? As it happened, the outcome of heat 1 did not go on to affect the over all result, but it would have given me something to moan about had the score been closer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 I brought it up last night and it was a clear case for the ref to use the rule. Bellego was way back when Morris fell and I said at the time he should have gone from 15 metres. Swindon certain got the rub of the green in that heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 If the reg didnt merit being used in this case its not worth having!! It has been adapted already as the race now has to be at a more advanced stage before being invoked (although the reg doesnt appear updated) It was used when Ipswich were at Newcastle where Heeps slide off in a first bend incident and didnt clear the track. Etheridge was put off 15m in that case despite the race being not much more than 15m complete!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leander Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 This rule is, in my opinion, quite ambiguous. Granted when the race is stopped the two riders are usually in 3rd and 4th place 15.8.1 If the Referee stops a heat, following an incident or accident, where the rider causing the stoppage and his team partner were in third and fourth place and a re-run is called with one of those riders excluded, the Referee has the sole discretion to order that the remaining team partner will start on a 15 metre handicap in gate position c or d (the opposing team does not change positions). However, the wording of the rule (after speaking to a couple of referees) doesn't actually say 3rd and 4th place at the time of the stoppage. It could imply that the two riders were in 3rd and 4th when the rider causing the stoppage fell off, and if the rider falling (for example) was leading when he fell they weren't in 3rd and 4th.. Not having seen the Morris incident I don't know where he was position-wise when he fell. I've been told the rule is designed to stop riders deliberately causing a race to be stopped in order to give his partner a 2nd chance in the rerun. Did Morris deliberately lay it down or did he obviously stay down making no effort to get off the track after falling? Another rule which is good in principal, but allows for too much ambiguity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drew2 Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Steve Shovlar said: I brought it up last night and it was a clear case for the ref to use the rule. Bellego was way back when Morris fell and I said at the time he should have gone from 15 metres. Swindon certain got the rub of the green in that heat. Surely that should be rub of the dust Steve??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Steve Shovlar said: I brought it up last night and it was a clear case for the ref to use the rule. Bellego was way back when Morris fell and I said at the time he should have gone from 15 metres. Swindon certain got the rub of the green in that heat. Didn't do them any Nick Morris being withdrawn either, he didn't seem too keen before he fell for the second time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob B Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 I thought the rule was only used if its an obvious case of a rider falling and staying down on purpose to get a rerun. That wasn't the case with Morris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 (edited) The rule makes no reference whatsoever to staying down on purpose to get a rerun In this case Morris was 3rd and fell challenging and in no way faked his staying down (it was a nasty one) However his fall meant he wouldnt get a point even if he got straight up and meanwhile Bellego was 50m behind the leader after nesrly 2 laps Even with a 15m handicap he wouldve closer to the rider in 2nd let alone the leader Leicester deserved that advantage and the rule could and should have been used Edited July 25, 2018 by dontforgetthefueltapsbruv 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve0 Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 8 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said: The rule makes no reference whatsoever to staying down on purpose to get a rerun In this case Morris was 3rd and fell challenging and in no way faked his staying down (it was a nasty one) However his fall meant he wouldnt get a point even if he got straight up and meanwhile Bellego was 50m behind the leader after nesrly 2 laps Even with a 15m handicap he wouldve closer to the rider in 2nd let alone the leader Leicester deserved that advantage and the rule could and should have been used The rule was used “referee’s sole discretion”. Time to move on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 8 hours ago, Rob B said: I thought the rule was only used if its an obvious case of a rider falling and staying down on purpose to get a rerun. That wasn't the case with Morris. Exactly what I was going to say. The fall was not deliberate. He stayed down because he was injured, not because he wanted to get the race stopped. The whole point of the rule is to stop the old laying down of the bike tactic, or staying down on the track if your partner is at the back in order to get the race stopped. It's not hard to comprehend that this is what the rule was brought in for. Neither were the case. It was a legitimate stoppage. I do sometimes wonder where speedway fans keep their brains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 Disagree Grachan. If the roles had been reversed you might be far from happy. Clearly the rule should have been used as Swindon gained a full advantage. Whether or not Morris fell deliberately or not, Bellego was out of the race being so far back so why should he gain advantage by coming off the gate again? The opportunity shouldn’t have been granted to him. Not sure Stead got on the phone to the ref to remind him but if not it was a missed opportunity. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 Were 2 laps completed? If so, why was the heat re-run at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scrutton Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 agree the race should have been declared as a 5 1 to Leicester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call me wolfie Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Steve Shovlar said: Disagree Grachan. If the roles had been reversed you might be far from happy. Clearly the rule should have been used as Swindon gained a full advantage. Whether or not Morris fell deliberately or not, Bellego was out of the race being so far back so why should he gain advantage by coming off the gate again? The opportunity shouldn’t have been granted to him. Not sure Stead got on the phone to the ref to remind him but if not it was a missed opportunity. When have you ever known a referee to change his decision Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Call me wolfie said: When have you ever known a referee to change his decision Cardiff GP Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve0 Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 3 hours ago, Steve Shovlar said: Disagree Grachan. If the roles had been reversed you might be far from happy. Clearly the rule should have been used as Swindon gained a full advantage. Whether or not Morris fell deliberately or not, Bellego was out of the race being so far back so why should he gain advantage by coming off the gate again? The opportunity shouldn’t have been granted to him. Not sure Stead got on the phone to the ref to remind him but if not it was a missed opportunity. The referee disagrees with this view! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 4 hours ago, Steve Shovlar said: Disagree Grachan. If the roles had been reversed you might be far from happy. Clearly the rule should have been used as Swindon gained a full advantage. Whether or not Morris fell deliberately or not, Bellego was out of the race being so far back so why should he gain advantage by coming off the gate again? The opportunity shouldn’t have been granted to him. Not sure Stead got on the phone to the ref to remind him but if not it was a missed opportunity. In regard to it being "sod's law" then, yes, it would have been frustrating. In terms of it being reasonable - no I wouldn't have been unhappy about it. Yes, Swindon gained advantage, but it was a perfectly legitimate re-run. So much so, that it's not even worth a discussion really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 Stead should have got onto the ref, and reminded of such a rule existing. As a new rule the ref might have forgotten all about it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anzum Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 I was at the Somerset V Swindon match when Somerset had the problems with their track. Swindon were on a 5-1 well clear when Allen came down. He jumped back up and started waving him arms around complaining about the track. Made no attempt to pick his bike up. Rule wasn't enforced then. Has it been enforced in the premiership yet? I seem to remember maybe two or three in the championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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