British Youth Championship - Scunthorpe 22nd July

[Hot Shoe]

3 hours ago, Gambo said:

At Scunthorpe in April there were 24 x 125 cc riders. Would you have limited that field to your chosen few? Or given all a chance for true competitive rides?

The only meeting  like that at Scunny in April that i can remember was the British Amateur Championship which is totally different to the British Championship that this thread is about.

[Hot Shoe]

2 hours ago, Gambo said:

At the Championship Rounds they not only gain valuable track time, but also learn the discipline of a structured meeting and all which that encompasses, and not just free practice. Everybody learns more from racing against others.

Actually riding around at the back does nothing except demotivate the rider. It does a rider or their confidence no good at all to be lapped on a stage like a British Championship.

The time to learn how to ride a speedway bike should be done well before a British Championship round is even considered and there are numerous opportunities to do that and not only just practice. For example there is are both summer and winter championships for all abilities at youth level at Scunny.  That's where they learn, riding with riders of equal ability. 

 

[Gambo]

19 minutes ago, Hot Shoe said:

The only meeting  like that at Scunny in April that i can remember was the British Amateur Championship which is totally different to the British Championship that this thread is about.

My apologies:  There was a British Youth Championship 125cc meeting (24 Riders) scheduled to take place after the home meeting v Edinburgh on April 1st, but the meeting was rained off.

[Hot Shoe]

1 minute ago, Gambo said:

My apologies:  There was a British Youth Championship 125cc meeting (24 Riders) scheduled to take place after the home meeting v Edinburgh on April 1st, but the meeting was rained off.

No problem at all.

Going back to April at Scunny though they did hold an amateur championship with youth riders of all abilities which was ideal for anyone from British Championship contenders to those who are still learning to slide a bike. I'm all for kids getting as much track time as possible but for their development it's important they ride in events that suits their ability.

[alkadera]

The Thompson boys who took first and third in the 500 class, if you speak to them and their family, started exactly as riders who you are trying to get rid of - as riders getting lapped in the 125 class. It's not exactly done them any harm!

Also, where do you make the cut off for these riders of appropriate ability? Do they have to be on the same lap? Within half a lap? The same straight/corner? Would that make it a better spectacle? Not really. Yes it's a British Championship but it's also for these kids to be learning to race competitively. It's easier to look good in practice on your own than being with 3 others at the tapes. There really aren't enough opportunities for youth riders to experience this competitive racing and all that goes with it.

At Belle Vue last night, one of the riders who has been getting lapped, achieved something big for himself - he did his 4 laps without getting lapped and was rightly congratulated when he got back to the pits. A small step to others maybe but I'm sure it gave him that confidence and desire to get the next stage in his development. 

 

[Gunner85]

When youngsters start they will improve at their own pace.

Yesterday was a fine advert for developing young British riders and Neil doe as an excellent job re rider improvement/ encouragement and also the speed and efficiency of getting through these meetings.

I remember Chris Pusey starting in the second halves at Belle Vue.... he progressed from falling off regularly ( sometimes twice in a race) to staying on for four laps.

Always a 100% effort from him and he developed into an international rider who was a credit to Belle Vue.

Very interesting to find that it was Jordan Palin’s first competitive ride on a 500 cc bike and he beat riders with NL experience

Well done Jordan

[Hot Shoe]

9 hours ago, Gunner85 said:

When youngsters start they will improve at their own pace.

Absolutely and when they are competent and competitive (however long it takes) with others in their age group that is the time to enter the British Championship.

[Hot Shoe]

17 hours ago, alkadera said:

The Thompson boys who took first and third in the 500 class, if you speak to them and their family, started exactly as riders who you are trying to get rid of - as riders getting lapped in the 125 class. It's not exactly done them any harm!

Also, where do you make the cut off for these riders of appropriate ability? Do they have to be on the same lap? Within half a lap? The same straight/corner? Would that make it a better spectacle? Not really. Yes it's a British Championship but it's also for these kids to be learning to race competitively. It's easier to look good in practice on your own than being with 3 others at the tapes. There really aren't enough opportunities for youth riders to experience this competitive racing and all that goes with it.

At Belle Vue last night, one of the riders who has been getting lapped, achieved something big for himself - he did his 4 laps without getting lapped and was rightly congratulated when he got back to the pits. A small step to others maybe but I'm sure it gave him that confidence and desire to get the next stage in his development. 

 

No one trying to get rid of anyone. What a strange thing to say.  My point is how to encourage them by letting them learn on a smaller stage with no pressure.

Everyone should be encouraged and with that encouragement you get better. Yes it's great to compete and to learn but that should be done at Scunthorpe, Lydd. Iwade, Northside, Redcar, Buxton and all the other tracks that provide practice and racing at youth level. It's a learning curve and some take longer than others to achieve.

Many years ago i went with a 16 year old and his Dad to his first ever grasstrack meeting. He rode around in the heats but didn't qualify for the finals like i did and this continued for a good few meetings until he learnt what to do and then he left me in his dust. it took time. He learnt at local meetings and within a few years he was in the British Championship and then won it multiple times. He also had a great career as a speedway pro with impressive averages.

The British Championships should be a totally different level than simply just to compete. By putting kids in to a major championship when they can't even get the back out seems to me to make no sense at all. No wonder we have trouble in this country producing winners.

[alkadera]

7 hours ago, Hot Shoe said:

No one trying to get rid of anyone. What a strange thing to say.  My point is how to encourage them by letting them learn on a smaller stage with no pressure.

Everyone should be encouraged and with that encouragement you get better. Yes it's great to compete and to learn but that should be done at Scunthorpe, Lydd. Iwade, Northside, Redcar, Buxton and all the other tracks that provide practice and racing at youth level. It's a learning curve and some take longer than others to achieve.

Many years ago i went with a 16 year old and his Dad to his first ever grasstrack meeting. He rode around in the heats but didn't qualify for the finals like i did and this continued for a good few meetings until he learnt what to do and then he left me in his dust. it took time. He learnt at local meetings and within a few years he was in the British Championship and then won it multiple times. He also had a great career as a speedway pro with impressive averages.

The British Championships should be a totally different level than simply just to compete. By putting kids in to a major championship when they can't even get the back out seems to me to make no sense at all. No wonder we have trouble in this country producing winners.

‘Get rid of’ as in remove from the Championship. Thought that was obvious. Your story about the grass tracker you raced against- isn’t that basically the same as the Thompsons? The atmosphere at the youth champs is so good for all riders that there is very little pressure on any of the riders other that which they put on themselves, which is the way it should be even for the top riders (all of whom has been through some sort of learning curve in the championships). 

Yes there are a number of tracks that provide practice opportunities but I think you’ll find that the majority of them do not provide many youth racing opportunities - Scunthorpe are good as are Iwade/Lydd but not many others. A few tracks do demo races before and after meetings but tend to have a select few riders who take part. 

That the British Championship should be a different level - as I said before, where is the cut off point for this level? Same lap, within half a lap, same part of the track?

The youth champs is growing in size every season and is now producing riders who are progressing through the ranks in bigger numbers, having kept the same philosophy as it has now. Give it a very few years and we will have your winners.

[Hot Shoe]

1 hour ago, alkadera said:

Your story about the grass tracker you raced against- isn’t that basically the same as the Thompsons?

No. You obviously misunderstood what i wrote. The rider i was referring to was a multiple British grasstrack champion at adult level plus pro speedway rider for over 15 years which included seasons with 10+ point averages and competed in the World Longtrack Championships numerous times.

i've seen the Thompsons many times and they have a bright future in the sport and are excellent riders and deserve their place in the British Championships. They've worked hard and practiced to get where they are.

[Sings4Speedway]

1 hour ago, Hot Shoe said:

No. You obviously misunderstood what i wrote. The rider i was referring to was a multiple British grasstrack champion at adult level plus pro speedway rider for over 15 years which included seasons with 10+ point averages and competed in the World Longtrack Championships numerous times.

i've seen the Thompsons many times and they have a bright future in the sport and are excellent riders and deserve their place in the British Championships. They've worked hard and practiced to get where they are.

Ooh its like guess the rider......Donkey?

[alkadera]

5 hours ago, Hot Shoe said:

No. You obviously misunderstood what i wrote. The rider i was referring to was a multiple British grasstrack champion at adult level plus pro speedway rider for over 15 years which included seasons with 10+ point averages and competed in the World Longtrack Championships numerous times.

i've seen the Thompsons many times and they have a bright future in the sport and are excellent riders and deserve their place in the British Championships. They've worked hard and practiced to get where they are.

As in he started off being not very good ie not qualifying for finals, just riding around as you put it then progressing to be better than his peers. Obviously the Thompsons haven’t gone as far as your friend but the basic principle is similar. Ask their dad, he chucked them into the gb youth  champs very early and they were getting lapped regularly but hasn’t particularly done them any harm. 

Would still like to know your thoughts on where the cut off point is for the Championship? 

Edited July 30, 2018 by alkadera

[Hot Shoe]

On 7/30/2018 at 11:56 AM, Sings4Speedway said:

Ooh its like guess the rider......Donkey?

No

[Hot Shoe]

On 7/30/2018 at 3:50 PM, alkadera said:

Obviously the Thompsons haven’t gone as far as your friend but the basic principle is similar. Ask their dad, he chucked them into the gb youth  champs very early and they were getting lapped regularly but hasn’t particularly done them any harm. 

I find it hard to believe that you actually read what i post without reading them first.

The Thompsons could well go as far as my 'friend' although i didn't actually say we were friends (it helps to read what i've written before commenting) but that wasn't my point.

I realize that this is just going around in circles so i'll just carry on what i've done for years and that's helping out and seeing kids enjoying the sport at whatever level they feel comfortable with without any pressure on them until they feel the time is right to move up a level.

Maybe we'll meet up at a track somewhere where you will be doing a similar thing?

[alkadera]

6 hours ago, Hot Shoe said:

I find it hard to believe that you actually read what i post without reading them first.

The Thompsons could well go as far as my 'friend' although i didn't actually say we were friends (it helps to read what i've written before commenting) but that wasn't my point.

I realize that this is just going around in circles so i'll just carry on what i've done for years and that's helping out and seeing kids enjoying the sport at whatever level they feel comfortable with without any pressure on them until they feel the time is right to move up a level.

Maybe we'll meet up at a track somewhere where you will be doing a similar thing?

Snap. What does that first paragraph actually mean? 'read what I post without reading them first'. Maybe you could read what you post just to be sure it makes sense lol.

I also have enough experience of the youth scene to feel able to have an opinion. If you have been around as much as you claim then we probably have seen each other. 

PS it's not going around in circles just because we have different opinions on how to reach the same point ie more British riders.