Are Poole’s team changes fair?

[stevebrum]

 Of course the changes are fair, it’s within the rules!

i think it’s a dangerous precedent to set to limit the amount of maximum changes any team can make, because some teams genuinely have riders with several injury problems, riders out of form and wanting out and several variables including making changes prior to the cut off date for last changes.

limiting to just 2 changes maximum is unfair to teams affected by the above reasons.

[Ghosty]

1 hour ago, ray c said:

Explain why their not fair within the rules every promotor can do the same so their not fair either are they ?

Not fair because: It favors the "better off clubs" one great thing about G.B. speedway is that (in theory) all clubs should start the season "equal".

CHOPPING & CHANGING RIDERS mid season is one reason for speedways downfall in the last few years, it's not fair to riders, not fair to sponsors of those riders & not fair to fans of those riders.

[Starman2006]

24 minutes ago, Ghosty said:

Not fair because: It favors the "better off clubs" one great thing about G.B. speedway is that (in theory) all clubs should start the season "equal".

CHOPPING & CHANGING RIDERS mid season is one reason for speedways downfall in the last few years, it's not fair to riders, not fair to sponsors of those riders & not fair to fans of those riders.

Every club get/has the same opportunities mate. No argument.

[DC2]

45 minutes ago, stevebrum said:

 Of course the changes are fair, it’s within the rules!

i think it’s a dangerous precedent to set to limit the amount of maximum changes any team can make, because some teams genuinely have riders with several injury problems, riders out of form and wanting out and several variables including making changes prior to the cut off date for last changes.

limiting to just 2 changes maximum is unfair to teams affected by the above reasons.

 

I suggested two tactical changes (which include alleged loss of form - Sundstrom was actually improving!). Injury replacements are separate and any number should be allowed provided the riders are out everywhere they ride for more than 28 days.

[g13webb]

With the demise of the support the sport once enjoyed , we need to examine the reasons why the attraction is not there anymore.    It was always thought and implemented that all teams were to be as equal as possible, where competition was uppermost in every supporter's mind.  Once a team was originally selected they were usually there for the duration of the season when changes were few and far between.   It created a bond within the team and also generated  a connection with the fans.   This use to be very important and encouraged fans to go each week.   Most riders had fan clubs  where an acknowledgement as he rode round to the start worked wonders for self esteem, both for the rider and the fans..

Going back to the title of the thread, No it is not against the rules of the league, to have many changes  but it sure is against the reasons why the sport was so successful.     Individuals like Matt Ford  has twisted every rule in the book for the benefit of Poole speedway.    Its not for me to judge him  for the damage that has been done,  but  the reason it happened,  and the same reason why it is still happening,   is that BSPA, is made up with people who have  always been wrap up in its own importance, rather than the sport in general...

 

[foreverblue]

54 minutes ago, Ghosty said:

Not fair because: It favors the "better off clubs" one great thing about G.B. speedway is that (in theory) all clubs should start the season "equal".

CHOPPING & CHANGING RIDERS mid season is one reason for speedways downfall in the last few years, it's not fair to riders, not fair to sponsors of those riders & not fair to fans of those riders.

It is fair to riders, sponsors and fans, who all know what happens if they perform below their level. It isn't about better off clubs either, i would think Harris is a cheap alternative to Sundstrom. 

[Steve Shovlar]

You know what? I reckon the starter of this thread is starting to run scared. All this season he has been taking the P out of Poole’s average first half of the season.

But in recent weeks the Poole team has started to show signs of good form. Topped off last week with an away win at Leicester. We are closing in on a playoff spot and the thread starter realises that Pirates are now a serious threat to the title. And his team’s form has plummeted with away defeat after away defeat.

Harris coming onboard has perhaps given us a bit more. Not a lot by any means. 

But Swindon this season? Should I say it? Gl.....gl......gl.......

 

[Bagpuss]

The number of people missing the point on this thread is staggering (although it shouldn't be on this forum).

[thecoombdog]

54 minutes ago, Steve Shovlar said:

You know what? I reckon the starter of this thread is starting to run scared. All this season he has been taking the P out of Poole’s average first half of the season.

But in recent weeks the Poole team has started to show signs of good form. Topped off last week with an away win at Leicester. We are closing in on a playoff spot and the thread starter realises that Pirates are now a serious threat to the title. And his team’s form has plummeted with away defeat after away defeat.

Harris coming onboard has perhaps given us a bit more. Not a lot by any means. 

But Swindon this season? Should I say it? Gl.....gl......gl.......

 

One thing for sure is that in a months time you will be above us the way we are going!

[foreverblue]

2 hours ago, DC2 said:

 

I suggested two tactical changes (which include alleged loss of form - Sundstrom was actually improving!). Injury replacements are separate and any number should be allowed provided the riders are out everywhere they ride for more than 28 days.

After tonight's drubbing i would suggest you need more than two tactical changes!!

[Ghosty]

3 hours ago, g13webb said:

With the demise of the support the sport once enjoyed , we need to examine the reasons why the attraction is not there anymore.    It was always thought and implemented that all teams were to be as equal as possible, where competition was uppermost in every supporter's mind.  Once a team was originally selected they were usually there for the duration of the season when changes were few and far between.   It created a bond within the team and also generated  a connection with the fans.   This use to be very important and encouraged fans to go each week.   Most riders had fan clubs  where an acknowledgement as he rode round to the start worked wonders for self esteem, both for the rider and the fans..

Going back to the title of the thread, No it is not against the rules of the league, to have many changes  but it sure is against the reasons why the sport was so successful.     Individuals like Matt Ford  has twisted every rule in the book for the benefit of Poole speedway.    Its not for me to judge him  for the damage that has been done,  but  the reason it happened,  and the same reason why it is still happening,   is that BSPA, is made up with people who have  always been wrap up in its own importance, rather than the sport in general...

 

Glad to see some people are on the same wavelength.

[BurntFaceMan]

4 hours ago, Ghosty said:

Not fair because: It favors the "better off clubs" one great thing about G.B. speedway is that (in theory) all clubs should start the season "equal".

CHOPPING & CHANGING RIDERS mid season is one reason for speedways downfall in the last few years, it's not fair to riders, not fair to sponsors of those riders & not fair to fans of those riders.

What a load of bollocks. Nothing to do with speedways downfall. Speedway is dying because they don't attract new customers. Simple. The sport decided to go down the long and ridiculous path of cutting costs instead of working out how to get more people through the door. This resulted in a drop in the quality of riders and tracks, which resulted in a drop in customers, which resulted in more cost cutting and the circle continues.

Speedway is circling the drain and desperately needs fresh blood. It's nothing to do with Poole replacing bad riders.

Edited July 16, 2018 by BurntFaceMan

[Mediman]

Why are you trusting a rule speedway is an individual sport wrapped up in a team package.

 Let’s say I am a promoter , riders are paid as individuals so if I have a rider who is not performing I don’t pay however I know the fans want the team to win so as they are my income stream I know I have to replace an underperforming rider with another even though I know I will probably be paying more to keep the fans happy I accept that.

now if my attendances are down and most are the only person who is losing out is me.

As a sponsor I want Poole to do well even though I know my money could be spent more beneficially my marketing team keep reminding me that but I love the sport and my team so I put some money in . 

In Matts defence he treats his sponsors well arranges good social events and promotes local businesses , 

Not everything he does do we agree with but his commitment to Poole over the years has seen us do well, ok we have had a few bad moments and well done to the  other teams in their success 

Rather than looking at individual promoters and teams we need to keep as many together if we want the sport to survive , the rivalry’s are great the opinions we all have are our personal views but let’s all agree the sport needs changing and the rules regarding team changes we’ll perhaps we can have a squad system or limits

‘What I do know is every team can make changes most promotions do they have to but I’d still be happy to have a forum to air our views on Matt Ford Poole pirates Swindon robins Belle Vue et al in a couple of years from now as I will still be watching speedway

[KevH]

15 hours ago, Starman2006 said:

There are a lot of good posters on here, you included but its being ruined by a small minority

Oh the irony!!!

This is sure to split opinions.......many people view Matt Ford as the anti-christ, and many view him as a God.

It's beyond reasonable debate that Matt stretches the rules to the limit in an effort to benefit his team, and I really can't see too much of a problem with that, as that is his job. As a result he is often criticised for gaining an 'unfair advantage' over the other teams, when it can't be unfair as the same rules are there for everyone to either 'exploit' or 'suffer'.

I am of the opinion that if the other promoters had been as 'astute' as Matt over recent years, British Speedway would be in a much stronger position than what it finds itself today!! 

[Aces51]

In my opinion the problem with Matt Ford is that he has failed to see the bigger picture and to realise that the long term success of Poole is entirely dependant upon the success of the sport as a whole.

The lack of credibility is one of the major problems responsible for causing many fans to turn their backs on the sport and which has led to much of the main stream media doing the same. Matt Ford by manipulating rules and situations to his own advantage has played a significant role in creating and perpetuating this problem.

[Steve Shovlar]

2 hours ago, Aces51 said:

In my opinion the problem with Matt Ford is that he has failed to see the bigger picture and to realise that the long term success of Poole is entirely dependant upon the success of the sport as a whole.

The lack of credibility is one of the major problems responsible for causing many fans to turn their backs on the sport and which has led to much of the main stream media doing the same. Matt Ford by manipulating rules and situations to his own advantage has played a significant role in creating and perpetuating this problem.

Utter guff. If the other promoters were as capable as Matt Ford the sport would be in a much more healthier position. But it is being continuously dragged down by promoters who don’t have any savvy whatsoever. You can blame those but would rather blame the one promoter who promotes and actually tries to raise the profile.

Edited July 17, 2018 by Steve Shovlar

[Starman2006]

2 hours ago, Aces51 said:

In my opinion the problem with Matt Ford is that he has failed to see the bigger picture and to realise that the long term success of Poole is entirely dependant upon the success of the sport as a whole.

The lack of credibility is one of the major problems responsible for causing many fans to turn their backs on the sport and which has led to much of the main stream media doing the same. Matt Ford by manipulating rules and situations to his own advantage has played a significant role in creating and perpetuating this problem.

What utter junk. Tell me, if you was Sir Alex Ferguson at Man utd, would you have any interest in any other club in the PL except for signing players ? No, thats the true answer if your honest.
As for Matt manipulatng the rules to his own advantage you cannot be further from the truth, all this guff smacks of jealousy because Matt is  several jumps in front of anybody else. And i would love it, love it if we came back and won the league now.
You may have a good track, and ive made my feelings perfectly clear about that. But any other coments are wide of the mark.
Matt doesnt look at this forum, but i know people that do. To all posters, please be careful what you say.. Everybody is entitled to there opinion, but its not what you say, its how you say it.. Be warned..

Edited for spelling

Edited July 17, 2018 by Starman2006

[Mediman]

Any owner,promoter , manager has to use the rules as they are that’s it, I expect my accountant to look at my companies figures and get the best reduction he can in my taxes as long as it is legal and will not cause any issues, that’s what I pay him for. No more than a team manager who uses rules to bring in a reserve or make changes to give his team a better chance.

Every promoter and manager who knows the rules will know how to use them for their own advantage this applies to most sports it’s not cheating its using set rules to gain an advantage . You might not like it but all teams use it 

If you change the rules the smarter promotions will look at the new ones and still manipulate them to gain any advantage.

thats knowing your sport  your business or  your rights.

 

 

 

[DC2]

This thread is not about operating within the rules to your advantage, it’s about changing a rule to make the PL fairer and speedway in general better. A limit of two tactical changes would prevent teams from being Johnny Come Latelies and buying the title in August and would encourage continuity of riders and consequent fan loyalty.

[foreverblue]

1 minute ago, DC2 said:

This thread is not about operating within the rules to your advantage, it’s about changing a rule to make the PL fairer and speedway in general better. A limit of two tactical changes would prevent teams from being Johnny Come Latelies and buying the title in August and would encourage continuity of riders and consequent fan loyalty.

So every fan on the terraces would want riders who have ridden for their team year in year out but now are off form and scoring poorly!  No need to change he's a nice bloke who has been here years! I think you would find the terraces emptying very quickly, some fans go week in week out whatever but a lot wouldn't go if the team is bottom and doing badly.