PE7Panther Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, NeilWatson said: To clarify this is per 250 seats, not people, so each open section of the stand needs a steward regardless of its occupancy. For example 1000 fans could not be stewarded by four stewards spread equally across the whole grandstand, that would still require eight stewards. Just out of curiosity Neil, where do you get that from? The reason I ask is because from what I remember of the Green Guide (Govt's official Guide to Safety at Sports Grounds) the relevant section that covered stewarding referred to a typical ratio of one per 250 of the anticipated attendance. That was merely 'guidance' though; not a legal requirement. So if Panthers are anticipating a crowd of, say, 1000 they'd need four stewards, i.e. the head-steward chap plus three who are either NVQ level 2 qualified or who are training for it. And so on. That does, of course, beg an interesting question: what sort of attendances are Panthers actually getting? But I guess that's opening a totally different can of worms - so probably best not to pursue that one The Green Guide also acknowledges that the stewarding plan will always vary according the the stadium layout, the sport involved, the profile of the spectators, etc etc. And it also talks about the need for a risk assessment. That will obviously take all those factors into consideration. The whole thing was, and is, geared up for sports events that have biggish crowds - primarily football. Speedway is way down the list in terms of numbers and 'risk' of incidents. And it leaves the door open for a degree of commonsense. So it leaves me wondering where this latest nonsense comes from. The Govt leaves the issuing of the requisite safety certificate to the Local Authority, so the finger points at the H&S bods at the PCC (and, to a lesser extent, at the EoES management). It was never an issue until those busy f*ckers spotted an opportunity to stick their self-serving oars into it. I suspect that they're choosing to interpret the Green Guide to suit their own agendas and bollox to commonsense. Anyway, I hope that Panthers management aren't simply rolling over without delving a bit deeper into the legislation/guidelines, and possibly challenging the PCC. Edited July 17, 2018 by PE7Panther 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, PE7Panther said: Just out of curiosity Neil, where do you get that from? The reason I ask is because from what I remember of the Green Guide (Govt's official Guide to Safety at Sports Grounds) the relevant section that covered stewarding referred to a typical ratio of one per 250 of the anticipated attendance. That was merely 'guidance' though; not a legal requirement. So if Panthers are anticipating a crowd of, say, 1000 they'd need four stewards, i.e. the head-steward chap plus three who are either NVQ level 2 qualified or who are training for it. And so on. That does, of course, beg an interesting question: what sort of attendances are Panthers actually getting? But I guess that's opening a totally different can of worms - so probably best not to pursue that one The Green Guide also acknowledges that the stewarding plan will always vary according the the stadium layout, the sport involved, the profile of the spectators, etc etc. And it also talks about the need for a risk assessment. That will obviously take all those factors into consideration. The whole thing was, and is, geared up for sports events that have biggish crowds - primarily football. Speedway is way down the list in terms of numbers and 'risk' of incidents. And it leaves the door open for a degree of commonsense. So it leaves me wondering where this latest nonsense comes from. The Govt leaves the issuing of the requisite safety certificate to the Local Authority, so the finger points at the H&S bods at the PCC (and, to a lesser extent, at the EoES management). It was never an issue until those busy f*ckers spotted an opportunity to stick their self-serving oars into it. I suspect that they're choosing to interpret the Green Guide to suit their own agendas and bollox to commonsense. Anyway, I hope that Panthers management aren't simply rolling over without delving a bit deeper into the legislation/guidelines, and possibly challenging the PCC. To back this up... There used to be loads of stewards at the NSS when it first opened... One stood on every stairwell on the South Side and one stood at every stairwell in the Grandstand.. I would say that there are at least 75% less now.... Crowds have dropped by around 40-50% in that time I would say but the stadium (apart from the west stand of about 200 people) is the same size.. If its seats being 'stewarded' then surely there should be the same amount of stewards still covering the Grandstand? Maybe being a council owned facilty the cost of stewarding the place was reduced as part of the take over by the current promoters? If so, it would suggest it is indeed more a guideline than an instruction... Edited July 17, 2018 by mikebv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crump99 Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, PE7Panther said: Just out of curiosity Neil, where do you get that from? The reason I ask is because from what I remember of the Green Guide (Govt's official Guide to Safety at Sports Grounds) the relevant section that covered stewarding referred to a typical ratio of one per 250 of the anticipated attendance. That was merely 'guidance' though; not a legal requirement. So if Panthers are anticipating a crowd of, say, 1000 they'd need four stewards, i.e. the head-steward chap plus three who are either NVQ level 2 qualified or who are training for it. And so on. That does, of course, beg an interesting question: what sort of attendances are Panthers actually getting? But I guess that's opening a totally different can of worms - so probably best not to pursue that one The Green Guide also acknowledges that the stewarding plan will always vary according the the stadium layout, the sport involved, the profile of the spectators, etc etc. And it also talks about the need for a risk assessment. That will obviously take all those factors into consideration. The whole thing was, and is, geared up for sports events that have biggish crowds - primarily football. Speedway is way down the list in terms of numbers and 'risk' of incidents. And it leaves the door open for a degree of commonsense. So it leaves me wondering where this latest nonsense comes from. The Govt leaves the issuing of the requisite safety certificate to the Local Authority, so the finger points at the H&S bods at the PCC (and, to a lesser extent, at the EoES management). It was never an issue until those busy f*ckers spotted an opportunity to stick their self-serving oars into it. I suspect that they're choosing to interpret the Green Guide to suit their own agendas and bollox to commonsense. Anyway, I hope that Panthers management aren't simply rolling over without delving a bit deeper into the legislation/guidelines, and possibly challenging the PCC. I suspect that we could have a guess at where this nonsense comes from, and assuming that the post is correct in its content then I couldn't really see anyone putting that in front of the landlords and saying can we come to a sensible decision based on our business. It's only a couple of years since the standing at the back notice which also seemed a bit sledgehammer to crack a nut although the dire warning was needed I recall to make the punters play ball. The stewards issue is not like that. Edited July 17, 2018 by Crump99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wealdstone Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 18 hours ago, PE7Panther said: I don't mean to have a pop at you, Pantherssteward, or at anybody involved at Panthers, but it just goes to show what a load of bollox this H&S thing is... Yet they are quite content to have fans wandering in front of cars on the way out with no supervision or direction at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodles Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 I was at the head office of a well known high street name today and as I was walking across the car park, someone came scuttling out to tell me I had to stick to the designated walk way as it was too dangerous to walk through the car park. Heaven knows how I've survived this long..... 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukas Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 How do people get from their cars to the designated walkway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodger Blue Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 22 minutes ago, Lukas said: How do people get from their cars to the designated walkway? Taxi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 On 7/16/2018 at 8:00 PM, JeremyCorbynFan said: What does a steward do? Can I just stand at the back and watch the racing? I could pass a level 2 NVQ easily. Im sure you can steward the 250 imaginary people that also don't attend 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PE7Panther Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 (edited) On 7/17/2018 at 7:50 PM, wealdstone said: Yet they are quite content to have fans wandering in front of cars on the way out with no supervision or direction at all. good point! If a car should happen to run over somebody's foot on the way out, he/she should sue the ar5es off the EoES management and the PCC...... Edited July 20, 2018 by PE7Panther Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PE7Panther Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 (edited) Hmmm.............. it's all gone quiet from Neil/Panthers. I've done a bit of delving - no names, no pack-drill - and it does ultimately stem from the PCC h&s bods who issue the licence for the EoES. And the EoES management aren't predisposed to question it, let alone go into battle on behalf of Panthers and commonsense. That's polite-speak for they can't be ar5ed/couldn't give a flying one. The thing that really gets my goat is that we (council tax-payers) pay the wages of the d******ds who sit at comfy desks down at the PCC and issue licences. These paper-shuffling numpties always have a tendency to twists things to suit their own empire-building agendas, and commonsense can go to hell. It's the same with all bureaucrats, especially in local government; uppermost in their minds is creating something out of nothing to justify their oh-so-important jobs. Cunch 'o bunts, the lot of 'em! p.s. If you're reading this Neil - have you and/or Ged actually read, or even seen, the Green Guide. Just wondering, like....... Edited July 20, 2018 by PE7Panther Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New era Panthers Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 39 minutes ago, PE7Panther said: Hmmm.............. it's all gone quiet from Neil/Panthers. I've done a bit of delving - no names, no pack-drill - and it does ultimately stem from the PCC h&s bods who issue the licence for the EoES. And the EoES management aren't predisposed to question it, let alone go into battle on behalf of Panthers and commonsense. That's polite-speak for they can't be ar5ed/couldn't give a flying one. The thing that really gets my goat is that we (council tax-payers) pay the wages of the d******ds who sit at comfy desks down at the PCC and issue licences. These paper-shuffling numpties always have a tendency to twists things to suit their own empire-building agendas, and commonsense can go to hell. It's the same with all bureaucrats, especially in local government; uppermost in their minds is creating something out of nothing to justify their oh-so-important jobs. Cunch 'o bunts, the lot of 'em! p.s. If you're reading this Neil - have you and/or Ged actually read, or even seen, the Green Guide. Just wondering, like....... Be careful what you are saying as someone from PDC or health and safety might pick up on the fact there is no marshalled way out and impose further restrictions thus requiring extra officials and the fact we are already short of marshall's will only make things more difficult , but I can see where you are coming from and totally agree with your comments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wealdstone Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 On 7/18/2018 at 12:51 PM, Sings4Speedway said: Im sure you can steward the 250 imaginary people that also don't attend The problem will soon be resolved as in the near future total crowd is likely to be less than 250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.