DC2 Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 14 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said: You only have to read the arguments, self interest, and sometimes downright crazy ideas on here to realise the fans are the last people that should be listened to. Neither do the vast majority of businesses consult their customers on their product and services as quite clearly the proof of the pudding is in the eating. The eating ain’t going that well, is it? Time to listen to your customers? You do talk some nonsense. I suspect every successful business listens to its customers! If not, it should. Whether that’s M&S, Facebook or apple being concerned about their images and products or a local trader concerned about its reputation and repeat business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 10 minutes ago, DC2 said: I suspect every successful business listens to its customers! If not, it should. Whether that’s M&S, Facebook or apple being concerned about their images and products or a local trader concerned about its reputation and repeat business. I've never been asked by M&S and Apple for my opinions about their products. The fact I that I continue to buy from them is proof they're probably doing something right, even though I think Apple has started to lose the plot and have started to switch away from using their stuff. Facebook doesn't listen to anyone, not least because we've had several engagements with them. They've been recently shamed into improving their fake news and data protection practices which has resulting in customers leaving, but really it's because governments have started to investigate their business practices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 16 minutes ago, DC2 said: The eating ain’t going that well, is it? Time to listen to your customers? You do talk some nonsense. I suspect every successful business listens to its customers! If not, it should. Whether that’s M&S, Facebook or apple being concerned about their images and products or a local trader concerned about its reputation and repeat business. I would be mortified if any of my customers were not happy with my service, without them I don’t have a business Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2 Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 Just now, THE DEAN MACHINE said: I would be mortified if any of my customers were not happy with my service, without them I don’t have a business Yep. Humphrey’s tone is “stuff ‘em, they don’t matter”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.D Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 The sport needs an independent body with a blue print plan for the future of the sport, I think most agree on this. The sport needs to go back to basics and concentrate on the product on offer. We can't afford the top lads so get rid of them for a while, spend the money not on wages but track prep, presentation, advertising and putting on an entertaining evening with fast flowing speedway on a well prepared track with a slick show in between races to keep fans entertained. A consistent fixture list is essential with the only non race night is because the team is away that night for a fixture. The governing body needs to at first win back the trust of the existing fan base with transparent honesty and then look towards winning back the lost fans base and then and only then can it start to attract a new fan base. Stabilise the current business, work within the existing financial constraints and then start to build for a future.. They have to consolidate what they have first, work as a team and then build, this I doubt will happen.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted July 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 OF course M&S and others listen to their customers. If they produce a product that their customers don't want they drop or change it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said: I would be mortified if any of my customers were not happy with my service, without them I don’t have a business No-one is saying you don't aim to please your customers, but when was the last time you sent out a survey to them? If you're offering a relatively bespoke personalised product/service then you'll probably get specific requests for things which you weigh-up against your costs versus increased value to your business, but that's not practical for a spectator sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 1 minute ago, PHILIPRISING said: OF course M&S and others listen to their customers. If they produce a product that their customers don't want they drop or change it. You're just being obtuse now. My point was that whether customers continue to buy a particular product, is how M&S know if they're doing the right thing. They don't send out a survey asking me whether I like product x, y or z or how their shops are laid out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 Yes but in this case the customers will probably ask for something which cannot be supplied because it can not be afforded. dear M&S I would like a wool suit, silk shirt and tie but i want to pay £18 max. Do you mind awfully making a huge loss so i can have what i want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, Richard Weston said: Costa, BP, Aviva are three surveys I have received in the last two to three weeks. I use all three of those companies regularly and have never been surveyed. I'd also question how many people actually fill in such surveys, and to what level of accuracy given it's usually to enter a prize draw or something. I was for a few years on the lists of market research companies who occasionally called (and paid me) with respect to whether I knew of certain companies or products and/or whether I used them. They might be able to determine patronage based on age and social demographics, but I never got asked why I chose a particular product over another, or why I didn't buy a particular product for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2 Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 Well, the BSPA doesn’t need to pay a market research company. It has a head start with the Forum and it can see all’s not well, both in attendances and comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 9 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said: You're just being obtuse now. My point was that whether customers continue to buy a particular product, is how M&S know if they're doing the right thing. They don't send out a survey asking me whether I like product x, y or z or how their shops are laid out. https://tellmands.inmoment.com/websurvey/2/execute#/1 Marks & Spencer customer online survey. A quick check shows Tesco, Sainsburys and Morrisons all have them. While I would absolutely agree that it is a question of sorting the wheat from the chaff, it is ridiculous to suggest that any business should disregard the views of their paying customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 11 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said: https://tellmands.inmoment.com/websurvey/2/execute#/1 Marks & Spencer customer online survey. A quick check shows Tesco, Sainsburys and Morrisons all have them. While I would absolutely agree that it is a question of sorting the wheat from the chaff, it is ridiculous to suggest that any business should disregard the views of their paying customers. i really don't think he's saying that to be fair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, DC2 said: Well, the BSPA doesn’t need to pay a market research company. It has a head start with the Forum and it can see all’s not well, both in attendances and comments. I don't think speedway needs market research to tell that its custom has been declining for years. The bigger question is what to do about it, and I've yet to see any Eureka suggestion on here about how to improve the situation. On the one hand you've got the 'too much watering down' brigade who'll advocate bringing back all the top riders but without explaining how that could be afforded even assuming those riders are actually available. Then you had those advocating that 'fixed race nights' would cure everything, without explaining how more fans were likely to turn up on a Monday evening. Now of course you have those saying 'I told you it would be a disaster, we need to go back to racing every day of the week', but again without explaining how you'll resolve the problems with missing riders which was the reason for moving to fixed race nights in the first place. That's before we even get as far as '13 heats with a proper second half' and '2-valve uprights' wheeled out as the ultimate panacea. Edited July 14, 2018 by Humphrey Appleby 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, ch958 said: i really don't think he's saying that to be fair 'You only have to read the arguments, self interest, and sometimes downright crazy ideas on here to realise the fans are the last people that should be listened to' If he isn't, he's saying something very near. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said: 'You only have to read the arguments, self interest, and sometimes downright crazy ideas on here to realise the fans are the last people that should be listened to' If he isn't, he's saying something very near. People often don't know what they actually want. They know what they like after they've seen it and tried it, but I very much doubt the average consumer product was designed after extensive public consultation. Apple is the classic example. Steve Jobs just dictated what customers would like and offered a very limited range of products. However, he had an innate sense of what would work even though more seasoned marketeers would baulk at dropping the floppy drive or serial port for example. Yet his vision stimulated a stagnant technological market and opened-up an entirely new line of business. Microsoft on the other hand, also dictated their product line early on, but lost the plot when they started to consult user groups which is how the abomination that was Windows 8 came about. They lost me as a customer around that time, and whilst they're far from down and out, they've progressively lost market share, and barely feature in the lucrative mobile device space since their disastrous attempt of buying Nokia's mobile phone business. Edited July 14, 2018 by Humphrey Appleby 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.D Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 8 minutes ago, Richard Weston said: If the BSPA would open up a bit, the Speedway Star could be a big help in charting a new and better course for speedway. The Star with the series they launched this week would be a great conduit of ideas etc. Surely, those who run speedway can just say thanks: let's see what people say. The promoters may also be able to suggest questions; such as: Would you support A or B etc. What do you think of Y? Surely, we are all on the same side. If this is handled correctly it will be a win, win, win {speedway, Speedy Star and fans} - what's not to like? I have to agree, they have to open up, listen and become transparent with the fan base or their clients so to speak. Its different yes, but I work in new build construction and we have regular meetings with our clients who spend millions with us. They give us feedback on what we are doing right, what they may not be happy with and in return we put our point of view across on how we feel. Both parties working together on the relationship and finding out how each side feel and how things can be improved for the future. Yes very different as Im pointing out how companies may work but the principal is the same. Its about finding out what a client wants and how they fee and then working towards making the experience better for the paying customer, lets not forget, we are the clients of British speedway and they should be listening to our views and working towards firstly keeping us and then improving the experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisperer Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said: You're just being obtuse now. My point was that whether customers continue to buy a particular product, is how M&S know if they're doing the right thing. They don't send out a survey asking me whether I like product x, y or z or how their shops are laid out. They do actually, every till receipt has an invitation to complete the survey with monthly draws as the hook. They also do anonymous surveys using an agency then at the end of the call you are told the survey is being conducted on behalf of M &S Just caught up HT got there first Edited July 14, 2018 by Whisperer omission Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 1 minute ago, M.D said: I different yes, but I work in new build construction and we have regular meetings with our clients who spend millions with us. They give us feedback on what we are doing right, what they may not be happy with and in return we put our point of view across on how we feel. Both parties working together on the relationship and finding out how each side feel and how things can be improved for the future. Yes very different as Im pointing out how companies may work but the principal is the same. Its about finding out what a client wants and how they fee and then working towards making the experience better for the paying customer, lets not forget, we are the clients of British speedway and they should be listening to our views and working towards firstly keeping us and then improving the experience. You're effectively building bespoke products, and if clients are spending millions then you can afford to take the time to consult with them. Plus you're really only having to satisfy a handful of clients - not a few hundred or thousand at a time. Total speedway revenue is probably only a few million - I think it was stated as being a 6 million business a few years ago and may even be less now - and punters are paying 20 quid a head at best. Reading this forum, whilst there are certainly some good ideas, could you actually draw any conclusions on what the average speedway punter wants, and being realistic on what can be actually be delivered, sufficient to turn speedway businesses around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted July 14, 2018 Report Share Posted July 14, 2018 1 minute ago, Humphrey Appleby said: People often don't know what they actually want. They know what they like after they've seen it and tried it, but I very much doubt the average consumer product was designed after extensive public consultation. Apple is the classic example. Steve Jobs just dictated what customers would like and offered a very limited range of products. However, he had an innate sense of what would work even though more seasoned marketeers would baulk at dropping the floppy drive or serial port for example. Yet his vision stimulated a stagnant technological market and opened-up an entirely new line of business. Microsoft on the other hand, also dictated their product line early on, but lost the plot when they started to consult user groups which is how the abomination that was Windows 8 came about. They lost me as a customer around that time, and whilst they're far from down and out, they're progressively lost market share, and barely feature in the lucrative mobile device space. I think you are right to a degree - and you are definitely right in your paragraph above regarding the bewildering and contradictory suggestions made - but what you said was 'fans are the last people that should be listened to' . In my book, that is definitely wrong. You have to listen to them, as bizarre and ridiculous as their comments might be. The alternative is failing to address concerns that can be addressed and, in doing so, ensuring that they remain happy. To give an example, Isle of Wight have a food outlet, the Retreat. One fan complained ordering and receiving was a bit of a shambles but the next week signage had gone up to make sure that people knew where to order and where not to. Small, I agree. But still a case of listening to fans. Part of speedway's downfall is that it has taken its fans for granted, ignored them and, on occasion, treated them with contempt and even abuse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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