NO WORD FROM THE BSPA

[Gambo]

21 minutes ago, Tsunami said:

And travel to every meeting for two riders.

Agreed. 

[mikebv]

6 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said:

PROBABLY don't want to pay royalties ...

Would they have to if they are only using songs from "K-Tels Hits of The 70's"...?

Maybe it works like Car Tax and you don't pay if what you are using is of a certain age?

Edited August 3, 2018 by mikebv

[1 valve]

21 hours ago, Daniel Smith said:

Clubs should budget to an average of 55 points paid per meeting, this includes bonus points. Every rider paid by points scored and the whole 1-7 per point money is the same @ £100pp.

£100 x 55 points x 2 (home and away meeting) = £11000 ÷ £15 admission (no concessions) = 733 paying adults (21yo and over)

Then add as a bonus income children between 0-5 free, 6-16 £5, 17-21 £9.

 

£15.00 admission gives the promoters £12.50 after VAT.
So 880 paying adults would be required not 733
On top of the riders direct costs there is also.
- cost of Fuel, Tyres, insurance and officials.

Before all of that there is the fixed cost of stadium hire/running which in some cases of hire does not include maintenance (shale to start with) or cost of power and replacement/repair (air fence?) parts

Bottom line, You need at the very least to double your projections of cash required to get remotely close to a being break figure, even for a promotion running at the lowest cost.

Put another way, if you want to pay riders  the level you suggest, in a full speedway meeting  then you need £17k/£20k per meeting and hope there are no rain offs. then you may break even.

 

[Hamish McRaker]

I think the BSPA is keeping the plans strictly under wraps, in case Poland finds out and copies them

[waytogo28]

They may go the other way of course. 200 fans at £50 and you are on your way. throw in a generous headline sponsor and go fully out for the grey pound ( people under 30 only pay £20 ). I think that is much more likely a scenario for 2020 after the BSPA get it wrong in 2019.

[mikebv]

47 minutes ago, Hamish McRaker said:

I think the BSPA is keeping the plans strictly under wraps, in case Poland finds out and copies them

Or one of them breaks ranks and goes on Dragons Den with them....

[INCOGNITO]

On 2 August 2018 at 6:28 PM, Daniel Smith said:

Budgeting is so easy in Speedway but you'll never get Promoters, Rider's and fan's agreeing. 

Clubs should budget to an average of 55 points paid per meeting, this includes bonus points. Every rider paid by points scored and the whole 1-7 per point money is the same @ £100pp.

£100 x 55 points x 2 (home and away meeting) = £11000 ÷ £15 admission (no concessions) = 733 paying adults (21yo and over)

Then add as a bonus income children between 0-5 free, 6-16 £5, 17-21 £9.

 

 

55 points x2 is 110 and not many teams would reach that amount on aggregate. Plus if one team is getting 110 points over two meetings the other is only getting about 75 points

 

Easier if the home track paid all the riders on that night or via bank transfers a few days after. £100 a point is far too much as many riders no where near that and the ones that are have to decide if they can afford to drop Britain offering them forty odd matches where these sort of riders can earn £1,000 a night riding for £50 a point and £50 start money and £100 appearance fee. A score of 12+1 from five rides would therefore get £650 plus £250 plus £100 = £1,000.

Even a reserve scoring one point from three rides would get £300 a meeting. Any extra money can be achieved by sponsorship either through the rider or club.

 

One league does not n

mean you have to change to six rider teams as bringing in NL reserves and a few riders from Sween, Denmark, Germany etc is easily capable of getting enough riders to cover all tracks entering the league. At present we have 17 tracks with a dark cloud over a few but hopefully going to preferred race nights again can keep some running and also get Rye House back. Even with two tracks moving up from the NL to run at this Championship level, twenty teams is 140 riders which is obtainable.

 

If you can get twenty tracks, that's 19 home and 19 away minimum giving weekly fixtures and a varied list of teams and riders coming to your track instead of the same ones repeated a few weeks after the first visit. It also gives a host of British riders a chance to progress and at least earn some money to make ends meet as they move up the skill ladder. 

Edited August 4, 2018 by INCOGNITO

[Danny Connor]

The 1 league idea would mean a lot of pointless meetings this time of season though. There can only be 1league winner. And maybe a playoff stetch to 6? This x amount of teams with daed rubber meetings. Crowds will be low. Also local derbies will be a minimum if teams face off once. And if it becomes farcical like a few seasons back where you face some teams 1ce and others 2ce then that would be a joke too. 

The 3 tier thing is a good foundation. The middle tier is too strong. The middle tier needs to be half that of the top league. Just like it used to be. If you scrap set race nights (I’d give it longer) then the top league needs to always get the priority on riders. 

We need to get a vibrancy back to the league. Look at team gb at the moment. It’s being marketed well and there seems to be a lot of people promoting that area of the sport well. A team of people like this to run British speedway as a whole. Hopefully in a way that may attract people to advertise through it.

social media needs to be ran in a way so negative coments are deleted before the toxicity damages the sport completely. Theare a lot of people out there who talk down the sport so much. In the modern day of social media people see this and treat it as a review. So the people who love the sport are also poisoning it and slowly killing it with their half witted comments. A bad meeting is a bad meeting, it’s a sport so not every meeting is going to be great. It’s a dangerous sport too that requires the weather to play ball. Hold ups happen. Don’t make every issue into a crisis!

the pricing is my main gripe. 

Its a sport that is hard to follow until you get to grips with the riders . I’d give every school kid 3/4 free family entry tickets. This would mean they would get familiar with riders and rules. And if the price right they may return after these expire. If it’s was around 12 pounds entry it would be very tempting I’d suggest stands would look fuller too maybe prompting more advertisement and a better atmosphere.

7 vs 7 domestic speedway is great. It annoys me that the Phil Rising column in the star focused in on the 1 league idea as being popular. Based on what? A few coments on the forum? Most speedway fans don’t use the forum and those that view it without commenting see it (forum) as a depressing joke. The speedway star is where people go for their speedwaynews fix. Maybe use that as a gage as to what people want. Structure wise. But don’t forget brexit/the us elections. Sometimes what people want isn’t always the answer. People get too het up on the politics of the sport and don’t enjoy it for what it is. exciting but overpriced 

Edited August 4, 2018 by Danny Connor

[Humphrey Appleby]

11 hours ago, Danny Connor said:

7 vs 7 domestic speedway is great. It annoys me that the Phil Rising column in the star focused in on the 1 league idea as being popular. Based on what? A few coments on the forum? Most speedway fans don’t use the forum and those that view it without commenting see it (forum) as a depressing joke. The speedway star is where people go for their speedwaynews fix. Maybe use that as a gage as to what people want. Structure wise. But don’t forget brexit/the us elections. Sometimes what people want isn’t always the answer. People get too het up on the politics of the sport and don’t enjoy it for what it is. exciting but overpriced 

I read Phillipe's comments as it being an idea popular amongst promoters. 

But frankly, the Premiership is down to its dregs and the Championship is hardly looking that healthy either. A bigger league will at least offer more fixture variety, because repetition, regardless of the number of local derbies you stage, just becomes boring and encourages fans to miss particular teams they've already seen. 

It doesn't appeal to purists, although they're a dying breed anyway, but you can keep interest alive throughout the season by having half the teams qualify for 'playoffs'. You give teams finishing higher up the table some advantage like byes and second chances and it can still be credible. 

For me there should be just a couple of leagues - a merged Premiership and Championship run at a cost-effective level with maybe 14-16 teams, and a National League featuring the rest. 

In terms of riders per team, it really needs to come down to practicalities and what sort of match/meeting format you adopt. 5 rider teams are largely impractical if you're running a 15-heat programme because not you'll not only end-up with riders having to routinely take 6 programmed rides, but it's impossible to devise a heat format where you can avoid some riders getting two programmed rides on the trot. That just induces unnecessary delays, even before you factor in tactical subs, R/R, reserve rides etc...

You can devise a reasonable heat format with 6 rider teams, although they become farcical if teams are allowed to turn up with only 5 riders (a la R/R without an additional rider having to nominate). And the savings are not going to be all that great beyond the travel expenses of one rider, because you're still having to pay out money for 15 heats and 4 of the 6 riders will be routinely taking an extra ride compared to now. 

[George Dodds]

On 8/3/2018 at 10:42 AM, PHILIPRISING said:

PROBABLY don't want to pay royalties ...

Maybe don't fancy 25 minute parades

[Trotter65]

When I was a kid the pre meeting parade was a highlight for me...and the line up of bikes and riders at the tapes being introduced....it's a chance to see the riders and not just as faceless individuals..

It's important for fans to identify riders and to identify them as riders for their team...riders today are seen as guns for hire...riding because it's convenient for them to be at a club but with no affinity to it all...changing rules and points limits don't help but it all creates a lack of bond between riders and fans at club level...don't get too attached because they'll be off next season..

It needs to get back to being a proper team sport..the riders are your team..they are your riders with a proper bond between the two...it's far from that at the moment ..plus when I was young Saturday night at 7 was speedway....I'm only a casual follower now but I don't have a clue when meetings at home are scheduled any more..

[Fromafar]

On 4 August 2018 at 4:19 PM, Danny Connor said:

The 1 league idea would mean a lot of pointless meetings this time of season though. There can only be 1league winner. And maybe a playoff stetch to 6? This x amount of teams with daed rubber meetings. Crowds will be low. Also local derbies will be a minimum if teams face off once. And if it becomes farcical like a few seasons back where you face some teams 1ce and others 2ce then that would be a joke too. 

The 3 tier thing is a good foundation. The middle tier is too strong. The middle tier needs to be half that of the top league. Just like it used to be. If you scrap set race nights (I’d give it longer) then the top league needs to always get the priority on riders. 

We need to get a vibrancy back to the league. Look at team gb at the moment. It’s being marketed well and there seems to be a lot of people promoting that area of the sport well. A team of people like this to run British speedway as a whole. Hopefully in a way that may attract people to advertise through it.

social media needs to be ran in a way so negative coments are deleted before the toxicity damages the sport completely. Theare a lot of people out there who talk down the sport so much. In the modern day of social media people see this and treat it as a review. So the people who love the sport are also poisoning it and slowly killing it with their half witted comments. A bad meeting is a bad meeting, it’s a sport so not every meeting is going to be great. It’s a dangerous sport too that requires the weather to play ball. Hold ups happen. Don’t make every issue into a crisis!

the pricing is my main gripe. 

Its a sport that is hard to follow until you get to grips with the riders . I’d give every school kid 3/4 free family entry tickets. This would mean they would get familiar with riders and rules. And if the price right they may return after these expire. If it’s was around 12 pounds entry it would be very tempting I’d suggest stands would look fuller too maybe prompting more advertisement and a better atmosphere.

7 vs 7 domestic speedway is great. It annoys me that the Phil Rising column in the star focused in on the 1 league idea as being popular. Based on what? A few coments on the forum? Most speedway fans don’t use the forum and those that view it without commenting see it (forum) as a depressing joke. The speedway star is where people go for their speedwaynews fix. Maybe use that as a gage as to what people want. Structure wise. But don’t forget brexit/the us elections. Sometimes what people want isn’t always the answer. People get too het up on the politics of the sport and don’t enjoy it for what it is. exciting but overpriced 

I'm pleased to read that most Speedway fans just see the forum as a depressing joke and the only problem is overpricing,and I though the sport was in trouble.

[The Third Man]

On ‎8‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 4:19 PM, Danny Connor said:

The 1 league idea would mean a lot of pointless meetings this time of season though. There can only be 1league winner. And maybe a playoff stetch to 6? This x amount of teams with daed rubber meetings. Crowds will be low. Also local derbies will be a minimum if teams face off once. And if it becomes farcical like a few seasons back where you face some teams 1ce and others 2ce then that would be a joke too. 

 

That's what leagues are about, there can only be one winner, what happened at this time of year when there were no playoffs and 19 teams in the league.

Lots of meaningless meetings

[Danny Connor]

It is the main thing that stops people I have taken from going more regular. Price. 1 league and musical entrances it is then. That will make a massive difference. Let’s watch the crowds double .

 

seriously though. If things are meddled with and tampered with too much it just might do more damage than good. Upset the hardcore who still go then you will be in a worse position than what you started with. GEt the price right, advertise better and get a bigger media presence. How that works I don’t know. neither do many of the current people running the sport. That’s why they need help

 Picking out just price is ignoring everything else I put. But whatever really. I hope whatever the next dawn is saves the sport I love without killing any more of the excitement and anticipation,

 

[Danny Connor]

6 minutes ago, The Third Man said:

That's what leagues are about, there can only be one winner, what happened at this time of year when there were no playoffs and 19 teams in the league.

Lots of meaningless meetings

So why the push for 1 big league? Lots of meaningless fixtures. Smaller leagues with bigger, medium and small clubs as it currently is minimises it. I can see what ever happens there will be just as many doubters if not more with the larger league. 

 

[topaz325]

After many spare weekends of no racing at Derwent Park, the news tonight is we may have to run meetings on Saturday and Sunday of the same weekend to complete the home fixtures.

[waytogo28]

What Mr Godfrey says, goes. Apparently. Should it be inconvenient it's your problem. "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem".

[Big Al]

So if (as the leaks and rumours are indicating) there is to be amalgamation between the current three leagues into two leagues with the "top" one having around 14 teams, a playoff (for want of a better word) involving the top 8 finishers would be likely. I'm sure there are many other examples around, but Super League and Australian Rules (AFL) come to mind as both of these have an 8 team playoff although the formats differ quite a bit.

The problem is what happens to the 8 teams not making the playoffs, their seasons come to a complete halt if there isn't a competition for them, as happens I think with AFL but not Super League. So would we be looking at, in effect, a Second Division being formed by those 8 teams (and maybe decided by playoff system which assures at least 2 further home matches). So you begin the season with two leagues/titles and you end it with three? Or maybe even four, if the original second league also does a similar split?

Doubling up would of course still be necessary, and probably a lot of Danish and German riders! ( who should be allowed into the second tier providing of course that the UK hasn't closed it's borders to foreigners by then).

 

 

[Grachan]

6 minutes ago, Big Al said:

So if (as the leaks and rumours are indicating) there is to be amalgamation between the current three leagues into two leagues with the "top" one having around 14 teams, a playoff (for want of a better word) involving the top 8 finishers would be likely. I'm sure there are many other examples around, but Super League and Australian Rules (AFL) come to mind as both of these have an 8 team playoff although the formats differ quite a bit.

The problem is what happens to the 8 teams not making the playoffs, their seasons come to a complete halt if there isn't a competition for them, as happens I think with AFL but not Super League. So would we be looking at, in effect, a Second Division being formed by those 8 teams (and maybe decided by playoff system which assures at least 2 further home matches). So you begin the season with two leagues/titles and you end it with three? Or maybe even four, if the original second league also does a similar split?

Doubling up would of course still be necessary, and probably a lot of Danish and German riders! ( who should be allowed into the second tier providing of course that the UK hasn't closed it's borders to foreigners by then).

 

 

So, basically, forcing the top teams from the CL into the top league as they won't do it themselves, and then having a proper second division instead of "top league lite".

Sounds good to me.

[foamfence]

12 minutes ago, Big Al said:

So if (as the leaks and rumours are indicating) there is to be amalgamation between the current three leagues into two leagues with the "top" one having around 14 teams, a playoff (for want of a better word) involving the top 8 finishers would be likely. I'm sure there are many other examples around, but Super League and Australian Rules (AFL) come to mind as both of these have an 8 team playoff although the formats differ quite a bit.

The problem is what happens to the 8 teams not making the playoffs, their seasons come to a complete halt if there isn't a competition for them, as happens I think with AFL but not Super League. So would we be looking at, in effect, a Second Division being formed by those 8 teams (and maybe decided by playoff system which assures at least 2 further home matches). So you begin the season with two leagues/titles and you end it with three? Or maybe even four, if the original second league also does a similar split?

Doubling up would of course still be necessary, and probably a lot of Danish and German riders! ( who should be allowed into the second tier providing of course that the UK hasn't closed it's borders to foreigners by then).

 

 

Doubling up with riders from the lower league would of course be necessary (that's how young riders progress) there is no indication the foreign riders would be allowed into our bottom tier. The lower group of teams could have a play off of their own (hasn't there been different levels of play off before?) Let us see how many teams are actually running next year, the likelihood is that quite a few will throw the towel in.