DC2 Posted August 2, 2018 Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 Just now, 1 valve said: Have you considered the VAT implications? for £12.00 the promotion would receive £10.00 For £13.00 the promotion would receive £10.84 Have you considered the cash at the turnstyle implications? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 valve Posted August 2, 2018 Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, DC2 said: Have you considered the cash at the turnstyle implications? Ah good point, and to keep things consistent pay the riders in cash making sure they declare a lesser figure.. Tax man will never catch on and speedway will go from strength to strength 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macinter Posted August 2, 2018 Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 (edited) I don't post on here very often these days nor have I read every post on this subject so apologies if someone else has already posted something like mine. The overwhelming issue as regards speedway is, in my view anyway, because so many are unaware of the sport even down to something as simple as to what is is and where it is staged. If I ever say anything about Arena Essex and the Lakeside Hammers, people, for the most part, just haven't got a clue what I am talking about. TV on its own has yet to overcome this issue as most people just flick through the channels looking for something that might interest them, which for the most part means skipping over the speedway racing bit. Unfortunately, until we overcome this problem I'm afraid our sport will continue as a minority attraction. Edited August 2, 2018 by macinter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 2, 2018 Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 (edited) 59 minutes ago, 1 valve said: Have you considered the VAT implications? for £12.00 the promotion would receive £10.00 For £13.00 the promotion would receive £10.84 Teams should pay no more than £5k a night... £10k needed for the home and away payment... Five man teams quite possibly the maximum.... Top rider earning around £3000 for both meetings, and No5 earning £1000... Maybe some performance related pay in line with any crowd increase above "break even"...? Maybe even £5k a night is too much in the current climate? Bottom line is 400- 500 people paying £17/£18 and clubs keeping the same outgoings is nothing more than a road to nowhere... You cannot pay seven riders out for two meetings on that at the current salary levels.. And £17/£18 admission isn't going to ever bring thousands in, with no doubt a planned inflation busting increase next year to pay for this seasons drop in attendances adding to the exodus of fans.. Something has to give... And reducing the number of 'employees' thus reducing your payroll, allied to a reduction in operating costs, is 100% the 'short term' way forward for any struggling business... The secret then is to grow your customer base to allow you to pay more in the future to allow you attract a higher standard of employee and/or increase your head count again... I think that this finally may be sinking in as Promoters realise that working in splendid isolation is actually no longer beneficial to them individually, and definitely isnt for the 'collectives' long term positive future... Edited August 2, 2018 by mikebv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topaz325 Posted August 2, 2018 Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 7 hours ago, Grand Central said: I would say that 1000 was way too high a crowd level on which to base any financial plan for the majority of clubs, not just 'some'. it would be 500 for many clubs 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted August 2, 2018 Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 50 minutes ago, mikebv said: Five man teams quite possibly the maximum.... Doesn't matter how many riders in the teams. Most fans would still want 15 heats. The only saving would come from 2 less 'signing on' fees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 2, 2018 Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 24 minutes ago, Gambo said: Doesn't matter how many riders in the teams. Most fans would still want 15 heats. The only saving would come from 2 less 'signing on' fees. The saving would be a salary cap of £5k per team per night. . Five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten riders! It doesnt matter. . £5k per team per night max.. Divided up any way they want... The 'price point/number of races' conundrum would have to be well thought out but they couldn't go over £15 per adult I would think... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevePark Posted August 2, 2018 Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 39 minutes ago, mikebv said: The saving would be a salary cap of £5k per team per night. . Five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten riders! It doesnt matter. . £5k per team per night max.. Divided up any way they want... The 'price point/number of races' conundrum would have to be well thought out but they couldn't go over £15 per adult I would think... Good idea in theory, but how many promoters will stick to it? Hard to prove if they don't, especially if they pay the riders by cash. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted August 2, 2018 Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 Budgeting is so easy in Speedway but you'll never get Promoters, Rider's and fan's agreeing. Clubs should budget to an average of 55 points paid per meeting, this includes bonus points. Every rider paid by points scored and the whole 1-7 per point money is the same @ £100pp. £100 x 55 points x 2 (home and away meeting) = £11000 ÷ £15 admission (no concessions) = 733 paying adults (21yo and over) Then add as a bonus income children between 0-5 free, 6-16 £5, 17-21 £9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted August 2, 2018 Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 23 minutes ago, StevePark said: Good idea in theory, but how many promoters will stick to it? Hard to prove if they don't, especially if they pay the riders by cash. There will always be backhanded payments. But for me, it's more important that rider's are paid. To make sure rider's are paid correctly and on time is for the BSPA to set up a central bank account. Payment to this account will be via the referee's score chart, then rider's paid accordingly, directly from the BSPA central bank account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted August 2, 2018 Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said: Budgeting is so easy in Speedway but you'll never get Promoters, Rider's and fan's agreeing. Clubs should budget to an average of 55 points paid per meeting, this includes bonus points. Every rider paid by points scored and the whole 1-7 per point money is the same @ £100pp. £100 x 55 points x 2 (home and away meeting) = £11000 ÷ £15 admission (no concessions) = 733 paying adults (21yo and over) Then add as a bonus income children between 0-5 free, 6-16 £5, 17-21 £9. Have you heard about VAT? Plus every club will have a different cost base which would make a 'standard' budgeting formula virtually impossible for every track. Edited August 2, 2018 by Skidder1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Connor Posted August 2, 2018 Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 I’m not a fan of 1 league an I’m also against changing the 7 rider team format. I’m really not sure 1 league is the majority view or any less than 7 riders is either . Is there a way to create a poll in the star.because I find the forum a place hard to gage majority Opinion. You get some good points then a whole lot of static. It it bugs me how some people want to change the wheel when it needs the right expertise in to promote the sport. Like the team go guys are doing. Get the tracks right. The presentation slick. Manage the social media better vetting out the negative stuff. GET THE PRICE RIGHT, give multiple free meeting coupons to school kids families (3/4 so newbies get familiarised with the riders and rules and if the entrance fee was say £12 per adult then families would be able to do this as their weekly activity), prepare for bad scenarios. Such as interviews if trackwork is required/injuries. Medical cover that minimalises hold ups like 2 ambulances. Kids clubs with activities. If if you could drum up a media presence then companies may want to advertise through the sport. So look into that. Now im up for keeping a 3 league structure with weakening the middle tier to 50% of the pl and pricing it accordingly. Like it used to be. I’m also up for reintroducing a mandatory 2 point under 21 British reserve again. At 7 with no “protected rides” that caused the problems with averages before. Double up is ok but with the 50% cl it would make it minimal naturally. Fixed race nights I’d persevere with for now too. I dont see see how 1 overpriced league will work. It will just put fans like myself off . There will be less trophy’s to win too so more teams will feel like losers and crowds will drop. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 2, 2018 Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, StevePark said: Good idea in theory, but how many promoters will stick to it? Hard to prove if they don't, especially if they pay the riders by cash. We go back again to an independent governing body.... Maybe the SCB could step up to the mark and actually run the Sports regulations and disciplinary code rather than the Promoters 'self governing'...? Other Sports eg Rugby's two codes both run salary caps and have both taken disciplinary action against teams abusing it.. The bitterest and possibly saddest irony of course, is how Promoters often try and seek an advantage to manipulate victories to win a competition that is deemed completely 100% irrelevant by the very manipulations they are taking to win it... You must need a degree to truly understand the level of how ridiculous that is... However, if the Sport is actually ran 'properly', ie with credibility and integrity, then maybe Leagues will actually become worth winning?... And Promoters then see what a positive impact to their crowd levels their transparency has?... And stick rigidly to all the rules and regs, not only to the letters of the laws, but the spirit of them too..! Please.... Let me believe for just a few more seconds... Edited August 2, 2018 by mikebv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduds1 Posted August 2, 2018 Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 Instead of the parade's as they are now, why not introduce each rider to there own song as they do a solo parade lap, and so on as they do with darts. Get the crowd involved by picking song's young and old can singalong to. I Know this sounds desperate but desperate times..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 2, 2018 Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Eduds1 said: Instead of the parade's as they are now, why not introduce each rider to there own song as they do a solo parade lap, and so on as they do with darts. Get the crowd involved by picking song's young and old can singalong to. I Know this sounds desperate but desperate times..... The harsh reality is that with Rye going and possibly Lakeside, approximately just around 1500 people (at best) will have to find something else to do each week (well month), (or maybe every fifth week etc etc)... In fact if EVERY track closed then out of over 60 Million people in the Country about 30,000 (again at best) will have had their regular Speedway fix removed.. To put it into context Stockport County's final regular League game of last Season had over 6,000 there in the Vanerama North... 'Desperate times' would actually be a step forward I would say... Edited August 2, 2018 by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winstoncigar Posted August 3, 2018 Report Share Posted August 3, 2018 10 hours ago, mikebv said: The harsh reality is that with Rye going and possibly Lakeside, approximately just around 1500 people (at best) will have to find something else to do each week (well month), (or maybe every fifth week etc etc)... In fact if EVERY track closed then out of over 60 Million people in the Country about 30,000 (again at best) will have had their regular Speedway fix removed.. To put it into context Stockport County's final regular League game of last Season had over 6,000 there in the Vanerama North... 'Desperate times' would actually be a step forward I would say... Pretty much sums up my feelings at the end of another sad week. Speedway will never go back to it's 'glory' days. They're gone for good and if the promoters and their association don't recognise this and start coming up with a real 21st century entertainment package then five years from now there will be NO professional speedway in this country AT ALL (except a once a year GP.) Do I hold out any hope? After the way my two regular teams have been treated by the BSPA in the last couple of months? What do you think. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted August 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2018 13 hours ago, Eduds1 said: Instead of the parade's as they are now, why not introduce each rider to there own song as they do a solo parade lap, and so on as they do with darts. Get the crowd involved by picking song's young and old can singalong to. I Know this sounds desperate but desperate times..... PROBABLY don't want to pay royalties ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therefused Posted August 3, 2018 Report Share Posted August 3, 2018 19 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said: PROBABLY don't want to pay royalties ... They wont have too? Only if its on TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted August 3, 2018 Report Share Posted August 3, 2018 (edited) 58 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said: PROBABLY don't want to pay royalties ... They will be paying their PRS dues for the music they currently play over the pa ... That doesn't change because they choose to designate a particular time to a rider for presentation purposes . Edited August 3, 2018 by Grand Central 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted August 3, 2018 Report Share Posted August 3, 2018 18 hours ago, Gambo said: Doesn't matter how many riders in the teams. Most fans would still want 15 heats. The only saving would come from 2 less 'signing on' fees. And travel to every meeting for two riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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