NO WORD FROM THE BSPA

[mikebv]

8 hours ago, Grand Central said:

You sound, from your much more 'knowing' perspective, to be suggesting that an 'one league' option could work better than before.

I am happy to be be guided by you.
I was of the opinion that it would be just as much of a FAIL as when tried in the 90s.

Really surprised that you think it would be different this time.

I really do think that the 'penny has finally dropped' with most (if not all) Promotions, that collectively they are as close to rock bottom as they ever have been..

Even the most myopic now can see that without other teams to race against their own business isnt worth a jot...

Necessity is truly the mother of invention so I can actually see them (for once) working together...

Without sounding too cold and calculating the demise of Rye and possible closure of Lakeside (and maybe others?) will actually release riders to be shared around the rest of the tracks which can only help the credibility of the Sport as guests shouldn't be needed as 'subs on the bench' will be readily available awaiting team places..

More riders and less team places can only help in driving down salaries too as supply will actually be more than the demand required...

And then who knows? Maybe admission costs will come down to a level that reflects the Sports standing rather than trying desperately to cover it's frankly ludicrous salaries for such a tiny minority Sport..?

Surely, the only way is up from here?

Let's hope those who run it can be radical enough to deliver the required improvements..

[Mike.Butler]

one league has to have some sort of rider control IMV. 

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

51 minutes ago, Grand Central said:

You make it sound so easy ... So it must be true.

I would love to watch Championship level Speedway for £10 to £12 in 2019.

But returning to planet Earth ....

 

 

 

Totally agree

35 points using Premiership averages is 45.5 at this years Championship level

A 10% increase in rider quality yet there is an expected reduction in admission from around £16 to £10

Pie in the sky

[waytogo28]

However in the alternative real world, that promoters often fail to see, is that a further dilution of the product and an increase in admission prices will certainly result in yet another drop in attendances. If the customers don't want to buy the product at the price it is offered at - they won't. And the shop closes down.

[mikebv]

9 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

Totally agree

35 points using Premiership averages is 45.5 at this years Championship level

A 10% increase in rider quality yet there is an expected reduction in admission from around £16 to £10

Pie in the sky

To make one league work the standard would need to be 'Championship Lite' I would say..

1000 per match paying a tenner wouldn't even cover that level though I would think...

Maybe 1000 at £12-£13 could cover it?

But sadly 1000 may be too high a crowd level for some maybe?

[Grand Central]

31 minutes ago, mikebv said:

 sadly 1000 may be too high a crowd level for some maybe?

I would say that 1000 was way too high a crowd level on which to base any financial plan for the majority of clubs, not just 'some'.

Edited August 2, 2018 by Grand Central

[thebaron]

On 7/14/2018 at 2:07 PM, mikebv said:

I would think there are 20,000 absolute max who attend Speedway 'regularly' each week..

I would also suggest that next week in Cardiff there could well be more fans there who no longer attend domestic British Speedway regularly than those who actually do. (Or not far off it)..

Maybe that is something that the BSPA could ponder and reflect on as to why.?

To me you make a great point. The Grand Prix shows you the "potential" for Speedway as a "high end" event; well publicised; well organised; well promoted. At the other "end" the National League is working at and succeeding in it's "brief" to develop the "the racers of tomorrow". 

It is the "bit in the middle" - Premiership & Championship that doesn't know what it should be or can be ?. 

I watch the Polish League (yes I know the money is in Poland) but how did they "steal" the mantle of the World's major Speedway league from the UK ?. Is it purely down to the World's best riders wanting to race there? I would contend that looking at the terraces in Poland there just is a "bigger appetite" for motorised bike sport than in the UK at this time. Although Motor GP; TT & Superbike are still hugely popular ? 

But; with the latter three notice these are "big individual events" where there is much interest centred around the bikes as well as the participants. Road bikers relate to the machines used in these events. Speedway does not enjoy that level of interest in the bikes as the bikes are essentially so unconvential to Motorcyclists. There maybe some Speedway riders who may never have used a road bike ? So it is hard to draw support from the "vast well" of interest there is out there for conventional motorcycling. 

Yet when Speedway began its origins were in "conventional motorcycling". The idea you could take your road bike "strip it back" turn up and race your mates round an oval circuit. Overtime Speedway has become "niche" and the bikes hold little interest to bikers ? Other than their lack of brakes; and the "counter intuitive" idea that you hit the gas into the corner and slide rather than knocking off the throttle and braking ! ? Then it usually gets the motorcyclists attention and respect. Essentially Speedway is akin to the "Wall of Death" at the Fairground. Which brings me right back to its inception ...the great man JH started his Dirt Track Racing essentially as a "sideshow" at the Fairground. Which ironically is where Speedway has ended up as a "sideshow" 

So accepting the "two ends" of Speedway (GP & NL) are working at what they do best. What do we want from the "bit in the middle"? Do we want or need a "League structure" ? Has the idea of the 7 man Speedway Team reached its end ? Is it more likely that fans will support a more "varied" type of racing programme over a season. If there are "teams" (and let's be clear it is increasingly difficult to staff these consistently) need the team comprise 7 riders ?. I saw something in the Speedway Nations Series that worked- 3 man "teams" and more "teams" in a meeting ?. Is that idea worth exploring ?. 

A team comprises 3 riders ? But effectively each club has "two teams.!? Let's stop calling Speedway "A Meeting" and instead call it "The Event" this has two parts to it (perhaps like Boxing) "The Main Event" and, "The Undercard" (might want to think if that's best termed ? ) But let's go with it for now. 

Each club has a Rider Squad from which it forms two teams. One - Premier ..One Championship. "The Main Event" is the Premier Heats. But interspersed with "The Undercard". So there are effectively two outcomes playing out during each Speedway event. So translating this to the current Scunthorpe team (illustrative only !! as riders in 2019 will revert to parent clubs in a "Leagues" merger)

Teams should be formulated at the start of the season using a "Rider Control Draft" based system using "gradings" not averages directly (splitting hairs on averages is "anti-speedway; leaves riders sidelined for 0.01pt ? )

Scorpions Premier (Main Event) S Worrall J Auty; J Garrity; 

Scorpions Champs (Undercard) G Manzeres; S Nielsen; D Phillips 

I would recommend a 3 or 4 Team Speedway Event. So Scunthorpe would entertain say; the 3 man teams of Sheffield & Belle Vue in the "Event" held over say an 18 Heat Card ..following a hybrid of the Speedway Nations race formulae - teams race in pairs as normal. The heats follow Premier - Champ - Premier - Champ. Consider the potential for "promoting" the top scoring Champ rider into the Main Event ? With the lowest scoring Premier rider dropping into "The Undercard" in the later stages ?. 

The Event would be the basis for all "Team Speedway" events on the British Fixture List. However "Team Speedway" need not be the "only" type of Event held through the season. Each Club could hold it's own "Grand Prix style" Individual Open Event ..and there could be accumulation of points over the season culminating in a Grand GP Finale at the National Stadium ? 

There is much to consider but personally the more I think about the above the more I believe in it's basics ? Speedway as a 7 man team concept may well have run it's course but the idea of 2 Speedway Events on the card and 3-4 Teams has potential ? Also bringing in a crowd drawn from the support of the 3-4 Teams on the Event Card. 

Obviously await someone pointing out short comings; but we are really coming up short with Speedway these days and surely something needs to be done to put a "stake in the ground" defend what we have left of a great sport and try to move it forward in these very "different times" we are in today. 

Another idea I have is to "revist" the "value" of Cycle Speedway to Motorised Speedway. I contend that the "very idea" of skidding your back wheel on a bike comes naturally to you as kid. Racing your mates on your bicycle is something we have all done having an oval circuit to do that on is the next step. Look how popular "cycling" has become and kids still want to pull wheelie's and tricks on them in the parks. Indeed some outdoor spaces are given over to "Cycle X" at urban and country locations.

Many Speedway riders grew up on Cycle Speedway's. Indeed Cycle Speedway is still happening today ! There's a brilliant track and set up in Poole as I recall. Every Speedway track might benefit from having a Cycle Speedway on a bit of spare ground where kids could have a go at emulating the Speedway Riders. It's only nature then to want to strap a motor to it ..  and off you go like me Speedway for life ! 

Thanks for reading. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2018 by the outsider

[Tsunami]

11 hours ago, KevH said:

And I guess you're hoping they don't, so your argument is upheld.

Forever the cynic I see. I deal with facts and realistic outcomes unlike you. Do you think Swindon fans are convinced they will have a track next year, given the manoeuvring of GB Stadia. I am sure they would love to be reassured they will have racing next year but not from you I would hope.

I see no more 'rich' clubs on your list at the moment. 

[moxey63]

32 minutes ago, Tsunami said:

Forever the cynic I see. I deal with facts and realistic outcomes unlike you. Do you think Swindon fans are convinced they will have a track next year, given the manoeuvring of GB Stadia. I am sure they would love to be reassured they will have racing next year but not from you I would hope.

I see no more 'rich' clubs on your list at the moment. 

Committing millions to build a brand new speedway stadium right now is madness. It would be like ploughing your savings into opening a new video rental shop. Personally, I still can't fathom how Belle Vue pulled it off. 

[Tsunami]

18 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

Committing millions to build a brand new speedway stadium right now is madness. It would be like ploughing your savings into opening a new video rental shop. Personally, I still can't fathom how Belle Vue pulled it off. 

Whether the Swindon track is madness or not, It was included in a plan and passed by their council to provide a leisure sport facility alongside the accompanying  housing development. To not build now would be illegal manoeuvring by people with this sort of history. Torquay beware. Belle Vue got through because it fitted in with Manchesters grand master plan for a massive sports complex, and there were people who forgot what business they were in and forgot about normal trading cautions. 

[INCOGNITO]

4 hours ago, Grand Central said:

You make it sound so easy ... So it must be true.

I would love to watch Championship level Speedway for £10 to £12 in 2019.

But returning to planet Earth ....

 

It's not just the sport that is the reason people are leaving but also the cost. By lowering the wages paid it can be lower admission prices and it will see an increase in crowds. By getting a bigger crowd you sell more at food outlets, create more atmosphere and more people talking about they night they had out at the speedway.

 

At £18 for adults you are not going to gain new people and judging by the age of lots of fans, many qualify for the £13 concessions now.

 

 

3 hours ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

Totally agree

35 points using Premiership averages is 45.5 at this years Championship level

A 10% increase in rider quality yet there is an expected reduction in admission from around £16 to £10

Pie in the sky

 

Yes but foreign riders will be on assessed averages not 3.00 and with current Premiership riders in if you make a list of current riders here and add a number of new riders from abroad and the NL then 35 is a realistic figure. At the end of year season when averages are finished you can work it out but if it has to be 34 then so be it as long as it's fair to ALL tracks and British riders get more places, especially at reserve

[Grand Central]

Getting back to the thread title and OP.

Today's statement from Stuart Douglas and Jon Cook refers to the 'BSPA having exciting plans for 2019' .....

It's pleasing to find out that they have plans at all. Having kept then so quiet. But to find out that Stuart and Jon have found them exciting is simply mouth watering.

It's like Christmas all over again. Waiting, and hoping and wondering IF Santa will bring the promised gift ... The anticipation just being heightened by not knowing until December.... 

I hope we are not left with Reindeer turd.

Again.

[INCOGNITO]

4 hours ago, Grand Central said:

You make it sound so easy ... So it must be true.

I would love to watch Championship level Speedway for £10 to £12 in 2019.

But returning to planet Earth ....

 

It's not just the sport that is the reason people are leaving but also the cost. By lowering the wages paid it can be lower admission prices and it will see an increase in crowds. By getting a bigger crowd you sell more at food outlets, create more atmosphere and more people talking about they night they had out at the speedway.

 

At £18 for adults you are not going to gain new people and judging by the age of lots of fans, many qualify for the £13 concessions now.

 

 

3 hours ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

Totally agree

35 points using Premiership averages is 45.5 at this years Championship level

A 10% increase in rider quality yet there is an expected reduction in admission from around £16 to £10

Pie in the sky

 

Yes but foreign riders will be on assessed averages not 3.00 and with current Premiership riders in if you make a list of current riders here and add a number of new riders from abroad and the NL then 35 is a realistic figure. At the end of year season when averages are finished you can work it out but if it has to be 34 then so be it as long as it's fair to ALL tracks and British riders get more places, especially at reserve

 

 

OUTSIDER - just reading through your post about four teams in two events 

 

So going on your example of Scunthorpe, heat one and both Scunny riders get wiped out and unable to continue .... Match over

 

also your are increasing the away matches by three but only one home match to create income. Only way around this is home track pays all riders on a set pay rate of £50 a point and £50 a start

[INCOGNITO]

1 minute ago, Richard Weston said:

I spotted the line about exciting plans. 

Any chance the fans might be let into what these exciting plans entail --- after all the recent muddles, it might be wise for the BSPA to open the plans for consultation before implementing them. Such consultation could turn up inconsistencies and potential problems before they arise. 

MUSHROOM STATUS

Keep em in the dark and feed them xxxx

[StevePark]

35 minutes ago, Richard Weston said:

I spotted the line about exciting plans. 

Any chance the fans might be let into what these exciting plans entail --- after all the recent muddles, it might be wise for the BSPA to open the plans for consultation before implementing them. Such consultation could turn up inconsistencies and potential problems before they arise. 

As I say on another thread - it'll be the return of the Green helmet colour (or something as drastic).....

[waytogo28]

1 hour ago, Richard Weston said:

Very true. When will they learn?

 

Never! the BSPA have proved incapable of listening or learning. Until they stand amid the smouldering ruins of what was UK speedway, possibly even then they will just wonder " why, how did it go wrong when we tried so hard".

[waytogo28]

1 hour ago, Richard Weston said:

Any chance the fans might be let into what these exciting plans entail --- after all the recent muddles, it might be wise for the BSPA to open the plans for consultation before implementing them. Such consultation could turn up inconsistencies and potential problems before they arise. 

Naturally, that would be a wise thing for them do except that they don't do "wise". Except in the sense of being wise after the event.

[moxey63]

1 hour ago, Grand Central said:

Getting back to the thread title and OP.

Today's statement from Stuart Douglas and Jon Cook refers to the 'BSPA having exciting plans for 2019' .....

It's pleasing to find out that they have plans at all. Having kept then so quiet. But to find out that Stuart and Jon have found them exciting is simply mouth watering.

It's like Christmas all over again. Waiting, and hoping and wondering IF Santa will bring the promised gift ... The anticipation just being heightened by not knowing until December.... 

I hope we are not left with Reindeer turd.

Again.

Not another promise of exciting new plans for next season. Remember, the same Jon Cook that introduced Man O' Man heats to the KO Cup..

Perhaps next season they plan on having a real life Play-Off system, as the weakest tracks fold week by week in the summer and then the last two standing are crowned Champions, but only after we await the other results being expunged.

Exciting plans don't fill me with joy.

[Orbiter]

Some may criticise my actions but I have only attended 2 meetings this year and I am probably not going to another because of the mess and general pi33 take out of fans. 

[1 valve]

6 hours ago, mikebv said:

To make one league work the standard would need to be 'Championship Lite' I would say..

1000 per match paying a tenner wouldn't even cover that level though I would think...

Maybe 1000 at £12-£13 could cover it?

But sadly 1000 may be too high a crowd level for some maybe?

Have you considered the VAT implications?
for £12.00 the promotion would receive £10.00
For £13.00 the promotion would receive £10.84