Gemini Posted July 21, 2018 Report Share Posted July 21, 2018 12 hours ago, acef said: We don't want the old man and his dog showing up. Blimey you are beginning to sound like SCB and his campaign against old people. Afraid I have been a fan since I was 8 years old and was taken to Blackbird Road by my dad so it's 70 years now and counting. I'm beginning to feel I shouldn't bother going especially as I take a dog with me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 On 7/19/2018 at 8:03 PM, acef said: This is where speedway fails every single time. You can't sell a team aspect if the racing (the core product/foundation) isn't right. For speedway it really isn't difficult. The speedway is the hook, the team element is the sell. In that order. The flaw in your view is that even if the product is right people still don't come and, worse, they continue to leave. The obvious example is Belle Vue. Fantastic track and racing. Brand new stadium (no standing on broken concrete or a mud bank in the rain). In Neil, Hayley & Chase the best presentation team in the business. Their gates have decreased by most accounts by one third this season. Somerset has a deserved reputation for excellent racing. Debbie Hancock, however, has said that their gates are 'not good'. Word I get is that they lose a substantial 5 figure sum every year and when they cleaned up a couple of seasons ago it was nearer 6. Until the NSS came along, I'd say Normanby Road Scunthorpe was the best in the country - I have had the pleasure of seeing some truly brilliant stuff there over time. Yet Rob Godfrey has continually complained about his poor attendances, and indeed threatened to close the track unless they increased a couple of years ago. I have, for a few seasons now, thoroughly enjoyed my trips to Workington. Decent stadium, good track, top quality presentation. Yet I know that when I have been that the attendance has been about half of the break even figure and Laura Morgan has lost a couple of thousand pounds every time. My own view is that good racing does increase gates or at least those clubs that provide it would be in dire straights without the additional fans it pulls in (I know this for certain, I am of one of them). But its not, and never will be, the sole answer and a single panacea to all of speedway's problems. We simply have to take a far broader approach than just concentrating on that, and ignoring those who come for the team element is one of the reasons why the sport is in the state it is now. Constantly taken for granted for years, they have finally had enough. You might hook someone with good racing. But if the stadium is a dump, the toilets are filthy, the promotion surly, the presentation puerile and the food inedible they won't stay on it for long. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinny Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 Promoters are telling fibs somewhere... do you really think every one of them loses money year on year? Stoke as an example, Tatums been promoter there for years. Never won a thing really since i have been following speedway. Yet hes still there losing money year on year apparantly!? Do me a favour. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinny Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 Promoters are telling fibs somewhere... do you really think every one of them loses money year on year? Stoke as an example, Tatums been promoter there for years. Never won a thing really since i have been following speedway. Yet hes still there losing money year on year apparantly!? Do me a favour. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Halifaxtiger said: You might hook someone with good racing. But if the stadium is a dump, the toilets are filthy, the promotion surly, the presentation puerile and the food inedible they won't stay on it for long. Now that is the best short description of some of the problems that UK speedway has allowed itself to descend into. Read, mark and learn - but few promotions learn from such a simple but vital lesson. I still demand better racing on a regular basis to tempt me into a season ticket or even going to every home match. We need the whole package if we are ever to attract these mythical new fans. Promotions must learn not to be surly and make sure their presentation is far from puerile. But will they? I agree with Pinny that they cannot be losing thousands year on year - unless it was a tax break for their other business ventures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Shoe Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 15 hours ago, cityrebel said: I got conned at that one as well! Sadly speedway has a knack of shooting itself in the foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyd Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 12 hours ago, Pinny said: Promoters are telling fibs somewhere... do you really think every one of them loses money year on year? Stoke as an example, Tatums been promoter there for years. Never won a thing really since i have been following speedway. Yet hes still there losing money year on year apparantly!? Do me a favour. I dont think all promoters loose money year on year, some do some dont BUT I do believe that speedway must be a nice tax offset if someone has a thriving buisness outside the sport. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Stadia Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 12 hours ago, tonyd said: I dont think all promoters loose money year on year, some do some dont BUT I do believe that speedway must be a nice tax offset if someone has a thriving buisness outside the sport. But surely a loss is a loss? If you are offsetting profit from another company, all you are saving is the tax you would have paid on the profit, therefore, you are still out of pocket? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisperer Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) 19 hours ago, tonyd said: I dont think all promoters loose money year on year, some do some dont BUT I do believe that speedway must be a nice tax offset if someone has a thriving buisness outside the sport. It's an interesting belief you have, when a Speedway is nothing more than a department within a company (not a separate entity) then yes you may be right but where the Speedway is a separate company or a separate company within a holding company then not necessarily so. There have been and may well be more tax investigations by HMRC into perennial loss making ventures that receive funds (sponsorship) from sister companies on the basis that the person(s) with significant control may be one and the same. They are viewing it like "My Racehorse Ltd or My Superyacht Limited" where the poorly performing business is being used for tax avoidance. HMRC have already undone some of the benefits to enterprise investors because investments were made with little or no risk to avoid tax instead of being genuinely invested to develop businesses. The harsh reality is that Speedway businesses are all losing money, even if you think your club is making a profit it is burning equity faster than it can build capital. Let's say for example Poole was worth half a million quid 2 years ago, how much is it worth now and how much will it be worth when there is nobody left to race against? Wolverhampton could be the same, a steady business for years it's value has been eroded by the state the sport is in. Being able to pay the bills doesn't mean they are making money and as for the joker who thinks Stoke are coining it in, pm me and I'll send you Tatts number you can call him and tell him just that! Edited July 23, 2018 by Whisperer 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Ore Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 On 21 July 2018 at 10:46 PM, cityrebel said: I got conned at that one as well! Easter Trophy at Kent tonight. Another con; it's not even Easter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topaz325 Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 When the new Belle vue track got the go ahead I welcomed the new track but stated at the time about the League situation in the future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, topaz325 said: When the new Belle vue track got the go ahead I welcomed the new track but stated at the time about the League situation in the future Sadly I had the same misgivings. .. No point in having a state of the art facility and no one turns up to visit it... When you analyse it, it's quite incredible to be honest just how many 'regular customers' British Speedway has lost in such a very, very short space of time..... Usually a 'shrinking business' will lose a certain 'few' percentage of customers gradually year on year over a period of time before it becomes a threat to its existence. Giving the ailing business time to re-assess it's operating and business plans and re group... Speedway on the other hand seems to lose double digit percentages year on year, and seems to do seldom different to stem the tide (never mind turn it).... My track it is suggested has dropped from 1800 average in the first year it opened to around 1000 average in its third... An incredible (and frightening) drop... Almost half its customer base gone.... The whys and wherefores for this have been covered off at length ad infinitum, so I won't cover old ground.... It is truly staggering though the deluge of unsolicited feedback given by fans (and more importantly possibly ex fans), to those who run the Sport by its plethora of online media, and of course the World's Best Selling Speedway Magazine, the Speedway Star... Staggering too is there appears to always be an abject refusal to listen and act on the feedback given... It is truly a 'Great Sport' (as BT showed over weekend with their various programmes)... Just so sad to see it ran in a way that cannot deliver the crowds the Sport deserves.. Edited July 24, 2018 by mikebv 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) If Belle Vue's lost half its crowd since its opening, surely there's still sufficient time (as it's happened recently) to find out why. Is it cost, racenight? It's best finding out. You'd at least get some kind of pattern. Edited July 23, 2018 by moxey63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoke Potter Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 On 7/20/2018 at 2:15 PM, BWitcher said: That is absolutely nowhere near the real problem. Flawed tracks aren't the problem you say..? Are you watching this utter joke of a televised meeting at Swindon? Poor tracks are killing the sport in this country! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racin Jason 72 Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 Awful meeting on a dreadful/dangerous track which was woefully under watered. Nick morris is correct in saying typical England. The water bowser was inadequate and frankly Mickey Mouse. In Poland and Sweden they have the right equipment to start with. A close up of the two minute clock showed it perched on a former coffee table painted red. Just looks so amateur. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 17 hours ago, moxey63 said: If Belle Vue's lost half its crowd since its opening, surely there's still sufficient time (as it's happened recently) to find out why. Is it cost, racenight? It's best finding out. You'd at least get some kind of pattern. When we opened we had a lot of old fans return. They begrudgingly gave the play offs a go even though they didn’t much care for them. When Tai was drafted in for the play offs that saw a Wolves victory the old school don’t see it as the sporting contest from years ago. Now it’s just an occasional fun night, not to be taken seriously and this has led to fans drifting away again. The joker didn’t help either. If you had a time machine and you went back and told a fan how the sport would end up and how it would be run, they wouldn’t believe you. Seeing it unfold with my own eyes, I still find it unbelievable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 1 hour ago, ouch said: When we opened we had a lot of old fans return. They begrudgingly gave the play offs a go even though they didn’t much care for them. When Tai was drafted in for the play offs that saw a Wolves victory the old school don’t see it as the sporting contest from years ago. Now it’s just an occasional fun night, not to be taken seriously and this has led to fans drifting away again. The joker didn’t help either. If you had a time machine and you went back and told a fan how the sport would end up and how it would be run, they wouldn’t believe you. Seeing it unfold with my own eyes, I still find it unbelievable. 3 That is exactly how I expected fans to be drifting away. It is just refreshing that they are there to be won back... instead of trying to get new ones that have never heard of the blinking thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 58 minutes ago, ouch said: When we opened we had a lot of old fans return. They begrudgingly gave the play offs a go even though they didn’t much care for them. When Tai was drafted in for the play offs that saw a Wolves victory the old school don’t see it as the sporting contest from years ago. Now it’s just an occasional fun night, not to be taken seriously and this has led to fans drifting away again. The joker didn’t help either. If you had a time machine and you went back and told a fan how the sport would end up and how it would be run, they wouldn’t believe you. Seeing it unfold with my own eyes, I still find it unbelievable. It would have to be a fan of over 20 years ago I would say... Since circa 2000 many fans have predicted the current situation as simply it was the ONLY outcome if British Speedway followed the same path of destruction... Too many Mickey Mouse meetings which by definition then led to Mickey Mouse Championships eventually eroded the patience (and interest) of even the most ardent of fans.... Quantity of Speedway meetings became the mantra rather than the Quality of them... All to pay for the far too many riders over this time who became full time professionals meaning they needed shed loads of meetings to earn a decent living after paying out 'daft money' on machinery and tuning, all to keep up with those with true genuine talent who would, by natural selection, inevitably rise to the top of the Sport. (Like has happened ongoing since 1928)... The only way of paying for this 'professionalism' was to run more and more meetings of less and less credibility, and charge inflation busting admission fees year on year to desperately try and compensate for the ever growing annual reduction in income, all due to dissilusioned fans leaving the Sport in double digit % numbers each season.. Sky must have pumped in circa £20M to British Speedway over this time with the net result of diddly squat in positive impact to the Sport today... Riders, bike and engine manufacturers, and tuners will all have earned a staggering amount of money in this time (an even more staggering amount given the actual size of the Sport I would suggest)... If only half of that £20M had been invested in proper marketing and advertising of the Sport, maybe used as 'Prize Money' rather than 'wages' to give Championships some credibilty and kudos, or even used to subsidise admission costs, I would suggest the Sport in Britain would be a million miles better off than it is today..... Sadly, when fans the length and breadth of the Country gave the Promoters some excellent constructive feedback in Speedway publications and social media, no one actually listened... Maybe they were genuinely deaf? Or maybe they were just simply arrogant...? One thing is for sure... They need to start listening now, and do something about it immediately... Before it truly is too late... 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icicle Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 Key words there are " PROPER MARKETING &ADVERTISING". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted July 24, 2018 Report Share Posted July 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, Icicle said: Key words there are " PROPER MARKETING &ADVERTISING". after Swindon last night we're better off keeping it a secret 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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