waytogo28 Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 Sadly I believe that a UK Grand Prix event run at every track as often as possible with all riders scoring points ( that add up to prizes ) would likely attract more attention from the general public that does not show any interest in team speedway. This might well catch on - if marketed correctly and create the new fans that will be the only possible saviour of speedway in the UK If it can be saved. That kind of open NO team racing might sweep away 50 or even 70% of existing fans but be replaced by 250,000+ fans of the new style speedway sport in the UK. Us tired fans ( especially us older tired fans ) have become bored with what we see now ( and how it is run ) and this NO team speedway might catch on. Especially with simpler, cheaper bikes maybe 250cc. It would not be speedway as we know it but that is on the verge of extinction. You would end up with a top 100 ranking ( something as in golf which throws up a new winner to surprise us all ) And Yes! Riders should pay to enter, sharing those fees plus a %age of the gate money. New fans must be attracted as changing just the existing tracks or bikes and keeping everything as it is, is unlikely to work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 If teams are so important why didn’t Cradley at Stoke or Wolves work and why such resistance to Coventry at Leicester? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, ouch said: If teams are so important why didn’t Cradley at Stoke or Wolves work and why such resistance to Coventry at Leicester? Well. I would have thought that obvious. The 'artificial' contrived nature of what was being done meant that they were not teams with any real identity left once they were being run miles away from their 'home'. Having such good 'lcoal brand' transplanted elsewhere was/is just daft. People from Stoke wanted to see Stoke. Branding them as such may have worked; possibly. Edited July 19, 2018 by Grand Central Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoke Potter Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 9 hours ago, Grand Central said: TBH I do not think that the product is dire. That is really your view, not mine. But at the same time I do not think that there IS ANY specific thing that can be done to to 'attract people'. That, I fear, may be an unsurmountable problem. People are just not receptive to any message on the Speedway front. And most of the reasons for that are actually nothing to do with the internal workings of the sport itself. They are much more to do with the seismic generational changes that have occured in the 'outside world'; of which most Speedway folk seem to be oblivious. One thing is for certain. It does not lead me to believe ANY of the nonsense you keep talking about altering 'tracks' as being any form of answer either. Making the best of what we have still has some milage in saving something of this sport. But that prospect will be lost if people listen to the fairy story that it is the tracks that need changing to drive people through the turnstiles. That is is just fiction. I knew it would be a laugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk127 Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 19 minutes ago, waytogo28 said: Sadly I believe that a UK Grand Prix event run at every track as often as possible with all riders scoring points ( that add up to prizes ) would likely attract more attention from the general public that does not show any interest in team speedway. This might well catch on - if marketed correctly and create the new fans that will be the only possible saviour of speedway in the UK If it can be saved. That kind of open NO team racing might sweep away 50 or even 70% of existing fans but be replaced by 250,000+ fans of the new style speedway sport in the UK. Us tired fans ( especially us older tired fans ) have become bored with what we see now ( and how it is run ) and this NO team speedway might catch on. Especially with simpler, cheaper bikes maybe 250cc. It would not be speedway as we know it but that is on the verge of extinction. You would end up with a top 100 ranking ( something as in golf which throws up a new winner to surprise us all ) And Yes! Riders should pay to enter, sharing those fees plus a %age of the gate money. New fans must be attracted as changing just the existing tracks or bikes and keeping everything as it is, is unlikely to work. Totally agree. Some of the better racing you see on home tracks is when it is an individual meeting. As you say many of us oldies are bored with the format and teams which are in reality a collection of riders with no loyalty other than to the bank balance which is fine, so give them and the punters what they want, weekly racing at every track with the opportunity to earn. As I have said before, tracks should have open licences and start this off with Rye House. Allow them to experiment with a few individual events at weekends and include different classes such as 500 and 250 cc and make it an event, not just a meeting. Good talented riders will rise to the top and if it is a locally based rider then people will follow. If marketed correctly this could be the saviour of the sport. For those who want club racing, watch the Poles and the Swedes or support an NL team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 12 hours ago, mikebv said: Riders spending £10k to £20k or so on kit to compete will simply have to stop doing it.. I am sure riders like Dean Felton, Jon Armstrong and Tony Atkin for example could show lads how to maintain competitive equipment without breaking their bank accounts or requesting thousands off their promoters to pay for new gear all the time.. I remember PC ( as well as other top riders) often winning races when having to use a team mates bike when they had mechanical issues, PC even used reserves bikes sometimes.. Amazingly the reserves bikes suddenly were 'rocket ships' in the hands of the very best.. As we often see, it really isn't the thousands spent on the bike that makes the difference but the rider riding it.. NL & CL should be riding standard sealed unit engines, I read on another thread somebody saying that a rider, I can't remember who, but somebody of NL/CL standard was riding Ash-Tec engines so should be competitive! I've said before that riders of that standard would gain a lot more speed and be faster by learning to be better riders than having expensive tuned engines 11 hours ago, New Science said: Would you be prepared to accept teams filled with guests / Rider Rep due to riders doubling up in 2 leagues /SGP /World u21 /GP qualification/ Polish fixtures / European Championship/ Euro Pairs etc etc to get back to Friday speedway at Belle Vue No... but it doesn't have to be so black and white does it? Time has come to commit to BL or wave goodbye, take the Aussies for example, live and work in the UK or live and work in Europe 11 hours ago, Stoke Potter said: Bare in mind, that every marketing initiative attempted over at least the last 10 (probably 20) years has utterly failed to improved crowds over any sustained period. I remember when the BSPA teamed up with some marketing agency a load of years back and a load of minor celebrities appeared at a number of tracks... I'll never forget the night I saw Hinge & Bracket at Wolves 9 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said: IN SS this week both Craig Cook and Chris Harris confirming that they cannot make ends meet racing for just one team in the UK. Time for them to get a job to supplement their Speedway or retire from Speedway and do something else... the sport in this country can't be run for the few who can't make it pay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieman72 Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 The present administration of speedway is simply unaffordable the revenue is just not there and is likely to decline. The sport needs to be rebuilt (if that's possible) from grassroots in a more loosely regulated sport where it would be possible to participate and watch speedway that is affordable, feasible and practicable for all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 55 minutes ago, iainb said: NL & CL should be riding standard sealed unit engines, I read on another thread somebody saying that a rider, I can't remember who, but somebody of NL/CL standard was riding Ash-Tec engines so should be competitive! I've said before that riders of that standard would gain a lot more speed and be faster by learning to be better riders than having expensive tuned engines No... but it doesn't have to be so black and white does it? Time has come to commit to BL or wave goodbye, take the Aussies for example, live and work in the UK or live and work in Europe I remember when the BSPA teamed up with some marketing agency a load of years back and a load of minor celebrities appeared at a number of tracks... I'll never forget the night I saw Hinge & Bracket at Wolves Time for them to get a job to supplement their Speedway or retire from Speedway and do something else... the sport in this country can't be run for the few who can't make it pay Harris could always become a taxi driver and chauffeur people around in his 80 grand Range Rover. Give two people 100 quid and one will have spent it the same day whilst the the other may still have 50 quid left - I don't think it's a lack of income for those two but what they do with it. I always remember two professional riders who were England stars in the 80s/90s. One used to spend an awful lot of money/use sponsors to get brand new gear every year - the other kept almost everything the same except for leathers and guards/covers. Their performances were comparable every year but I'm sure one had more in the bank! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 hour ago, ouch said: If teams are so important why didn’t Cradley at Stoke or Wolves work and why such resistance to Coventry at Leicester? Cradley does work , their crowds have been on par with many top teams, including their hosts they still get more than some teams in the championship even though they are not in the league and it was not too bad at stoke ,,their crowds were not too bad for a track 50 miles away ,Coventry doesn’t because it’s quite far away and many don’t trust Horton or like him 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 hour ago, iainb said: Time for them to get a job to supplement their Speedway or retire from Speedway and do something else... the sport in this country can't be run for the few who can't make it pay Has to be part of the way forward. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 38 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said: Cradley does work , their crowds have been on par with many top teams, including their hosts they still get more than some teams in the championship even though they are not in the league and it was not too bad at stoke ,,their crowds were not too bad for a track 50 miles away ,Coventry doesn’t because it’s quite far away and many don’t trust Horton or like him Why aren’t Cradley coining it in by running in the NL? Brandon to Leicester’s track is a similar distance to me and Belle Vue. Seems fans can put their love of the team to one side if things don’t suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Hawk127 said: Totally agree. Some of the better racing you see on home tracks is when it is an individual meeting. As you say many of us oldies are bored with the format and teams which are in reality a collection of riders with no loyalty other than to the bank balance which is fine, so give them and the punters what they want, weekly racing at every track with the opportunity to earn. As I have said before, tracks should have open licences and start this off with Rye House. Allow them to experiment with a few individual events at weekends and include different classes such as 500 and 250 cc and make it an event, not just a meeting. Good talented riders will rise to the top and if it is a locally based rider then people will follow. If marketed correctly this could be the saviour of the sport. For those who want club racing, watch the Poles and the Swedes or support an NL team. I have seen Speedway in America and it was a great night out... From sidecars to kids speedway racing, all the way through to the 'headliners'... I watched Ryan Fisher at aged 11 or 12 (him sadly not me!), blitz much older lads from a handicap of 30m and the crowd were going mental, latching on to one so young beating his peers.. I watched Dan Bewley last year in the Colts and one particular night he blitzed all the other riders and won every race by 30 - 40m. For the first two rides you were (as a seasoned watcher of the Sport) taken aback by how good this kid was.... However, by the third time you had watched him leave the rest for dead it got a little bit tedious and you longed for one of the others to at least give him a race... If someone else who had no appreciation of the Sport was there, they would have watched all his races with complete indifference I would have said.. Putting Dan off 30 or 40m that night though would have had everyone there on the edge of their seats I would suggest as he fought his way through the field... Maybe it is time for a few individual meetings to liven up the Sport?.. Handicap racing? 'Devil take the hindmost'? Speed trap award for fastest MPH at a certain point of the track? Two Riders starting via lights at opposite sides of the track like in velodrome cycle racing eg Bewley and Cook at the NSS would split the fanbase too and maybe have the fans shouting on their favourites creating some atmosphere!? Maybe Sidecars? Kids racing? 8 man races with two starting gates? and off track entertainment too, the usual bouncy castles, face painting, fanzone, photo ops, poster giveaways etc, etc, (basically lots aimed at kids).... Even raffle off tickets for the next 'Team' meeting' and flog some discounted tickets if the crowd is healthy... Run the scratch event maybe nationally with points being earned through the year track to track with a BIG final at the end of the year (with a BIG prize) for those who qualified.. The level of rider on show would stretch from heat leader to junior I would suggest, particularly if the handicap racing is to deliver... In short, the Sport when done really well is a cracking night out, and has all the ingredients for any 'layperson' to find entertaining.... It's current crowds are pitiful... But given the 'raw materials' it has to work with, they really shouldn't be.... Edited July 19, 2018 by mikebv 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, ouch said: Why aren’t Cradley coining it in by running in the NL? Brandon to Leicester’s track is a similar distance to me and Belle Vue. Seems fans can put their love of the team to one side if things don’t suit. Because there are not enough available dates at wolves , they had to ride some at brum last year just to complete their fixtures , your just one fan not a crowd, I drive 400 miles a day and I think nothing of it but some of my friends think I’m mad as anyrhingvover 30 miles is a night out, for what’s it’s worth I don’t think there should be any teams running from another track Edited July 19, 2018 by THE DEAN MACHINE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 18 minutes ago, ouch said: Why aren’t Cradley coining it in by running in the NL? Brandon to Leicester’s track is a similar distance to me and Belle Vue. Seems fans can put their love of the team to one side if things don’t suit. Yes they can. Not out of choice but that is what happens with 'feelings'. I have been one of them myself. My allegiance changed dramatically in 1986. I went from being an ultra committed Halifax fan of 15 years standing to being a very semi-detatched Bradford attendee in one winter. Being born and brought up in Halifax meant that Bradford was always 'somewhere else'. Not my town. Not my team. My team had gone. Of course my allegiance was severed all too permanently by KC 's death. So I will never know what would have happened over the ensuing years if he had lived. But within a couple of years i found a new Team at Belle Vue and left the Dukes behind. And was able to enjoy October 25, 1993 as a true born again Aces fanatic ... at Wolves with very little passing ...But a packed high energy crowd with so much at stake in Every race and last hear decider which we won. Making it the best meeting i have ever attended despite the racing being mediocre at best. The celebrations in the bar that night were about the team ... Not the track 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Grand Central said: Yes they can. Not out of choice but that is what happens with 'feelings'. I have been one of them myself. My allegiance changed dramatically in 1986. I went from being an ultra committed Halifax fan of 15 years standing to being a very semi-detatched Bradford attendee in one winter. Being born and brought up in Halifax meant that Bradford was always 'somewhere else'. Not my town. Not my team. My team had gone. Of course my allegiance was severed all too permanently by KC 's death. So I will never know what would have happened over the ensuing years if he had lived. But within a couple of years i found a new Team at Belle Vue and left the Dukes behind. And was able to enjoy October 25, 1993 as a true born again Aces fanatic ... at Wolves with very little passing ...But a packed high energy crowd with so much at stake in Every race and last hear decider which we won. Making it the best meeting i have ever attended despite the racing being mediocre at best. The celebrations in the bar that night were about the team ... Not the track Good post, agree fully. I used to go to Sheffield and Ellesmere Port in the 1980s as well as Belle Vue, doing three matches in successive days most weeks. I was still a fan of the Aces but couldn't get enough of speedway back then. Used to go to Halifax often too. I was at Wolves in 1993 when the league was won too, and at Coventry in the 2005 Play-Offs, although slightly before then my belief in "team" speedway was beginning to ebb. Edited July 19, 2018 by moxey63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 hour ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said: Because there are not enough available dates at wolves , they had to ride some at brum last year just to complete their fixtures , your just one fan not a crowd, I drive 400 miles a day and I think nothing of it but some of my friends think I’m mad as anyrhingvover 30 miles is a night out, for what’s it’s worth I don’t think there should be any teams running from another track Years ago based in Northampton the speedway world was my oyster and I very regularly rode my own road bike to Sheffield, White City, Kings Lynn, Rye House Oxford and Coventry as well as short-lived ones like Milton Keynes. I thought nothing of a 150-mile ride ( which I greatly enjoyed as well as the racing ). Now I live 3 miles from the King's Lynn track and can take it or leave it - not through ill health because I get a lift on the days I want to go. I like many, locally based fans am unimpressed with KLS over the past three years - coincidentally it seems since Buster has been miles away thinking of the whole sport ( even when physically at the track ) and - perhaps taking his eye off the ball at Saddlebow Rd. Not that he would agree with that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 Ive started a poll on twitter so see how fans view speedway ,as a team sport on bikes like football rugby etc or a motorsport for competitors like MotoGP, motox etc m, feel free to vote @deanfelton1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 13 hours ago, mikebv said: No I wouldn't be prepared to watch teams full of guests... But then again I shouldn't need to... There are enough dates available to work around all the FIM fixtures which are put out well in advance.. 14 home matches in a 28 week season isn't really too difficult to plan in I would suggest... As for the TV deal? Running the odd Monday (if TV cannot change their schedule) would mean the usual impact to crowds but it did that anyway... 12 meetings at weekend and 2 TV meetings on a Monday is far better than 14 Mondays.... If planning fixtures was so easy this would have been achieved many years ago. Teams will not run fixtures if they have 3 riders missing to doubling up which is norm if you are a weekend track. If Belle Vue run on a Friday there could be as many as 8 other teams riding in the Championship on the same night, cue a multitude of guests. Come to think of it how often do we have all the teams completing fixtures before the cut off, very rarely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 Reading this forum it seems all fans want is a full team of mainly British / local riders who only ride for their team,don't race abroad or in any F.IM , One Sport event. On the night of their choice with a TV deal in place and all for a tenner. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, New Science said: Reading this forum it seems all fans want is a full team of mainly British / local riders who only ride for their team,don't race abroad or in any F.IM , One Sport event. On the night of their choice with a TV deal in place and all for a tenner. Bingo!! I am prepared to go to £15 though... And my 15 yr old lad in for free obviously... Edited July 19, 2018 by mikebv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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