moxey63 Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, acef said: From my own experience I've always viewed speedway as an individual sport even at team level. I think many Brits share that point of view. 2 How long have you been watching? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acef Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said: It flys in football, yes better racing will help but it’s not a prority, it won’t get new fans to come, I do ask people with knowledge , it’s ptetty much how I spend my speedway meetings these days , I still have friends in high places and I’m constantly asking them, running ideas by them, some of my posts are not my ideas but that of well respected members of the speedway community, not sure if you saw my Twitter spat over doubling up with Steve worral last year? But the backing I had for that huge and from well respected people, I don’t have all the answers and I try to base my ideas/thoughts on the fan perspective . To a point it doesn’t matter what me or you think it matters what the people who don’t go to speedway think I did yes. It was quite amusing. From a riders perspective they need money in the bank. Steve can't spend Tuesday night serving in McDonald's and Thursday racing his motorbike. From his point of view I understand. Unfortunately his point of view is totally irrelevant because its not about him, its about the fan. If he wants to be professional about it then he needs to see what is most important in this sport. The promoters have made it about the promoters. The riders have made it about the riders. You can guess what's missing here can't you? Speedways biggest achiles heel. Edited July 18, 2018 by acef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 1 minute ago, acef said: I think that post Dean highlights perfectly the difference in point of view between how a Polish person would view the sport versus a British person. From my own experience I've always viewed speedway as an individual sport even at team level. I think many Brits share that point of view. We can't assume that what works in Poland is going to work here. The sport simply don't carry the weight here that it does out there. We need to start entertaining the fans. Speedway can be incredibly exciting and that is what will put bums on seats in the UK. Track prep and shape so that it suits the current machine is going to help that significantly Growing up I was a wolves fan and that’s all that mattered, as a rider I became that team I rode and they became my fans, that’s how team sport works no matter if it Britain poland or Jamaica,speedway football or hockey, speedway is a team sport and that’s what matters to fans, always has 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acef Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, moxey63 said: How long have you been watching? Since the early 80s. More than long enough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, acef said: I think that post Dean highlights perfectly the difference in point of view between how a Polish person would view the sport versus a British person. From my own experience I've always viewed speedway as an individual sport even at team level. I think many Brits share that point of view. We can't assume that what works in Poland is going to work here. The sport simply don't carry the weight here that it does out there. We need to start entertaining the fans. Speedway can be incredibly exciting and that is what will put bums on seats in the UK. Track prep and shape so that it suits the current machine is going to help that significantly I cannot say how much I disagree with your thinking. I am not basing this on ANY experience of Poland, Polish people or their similarties with the British. Iam basing it on BRITISH people. And how it has always been and always will. We want to support a team (and individuals, true) but a Team is King. We want it to win. And it is the 'joint experience' of an entusiastic crown willing that to happen that gives the buzz FAR FAR more than the 'racing'. I've only been watching since the mid 1960s, mainly at The Shay and much as people want to wax lyrical about the quality of racing from the past. That was not what got me going every week. Not one bit. IT WAS THE TEAM. And the riders; all of which I could still name for every single year. The racing has always been a side issue ... they make memories true, but the real BIG memories are about the atmosphere and tension relating to the TEAM/RIDERS and whether we could pull off a win or get another 5-1. Scrape or storm it. It was alll about the 'DUKES'(Team/Riders) NOT the bloody stadium, track or bikes. Edited July 18, 2018 by Grand Central 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acef Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said: Growing up I was a wolves fan and that’s all that mattered, as a rider I became that team I rode and they became my fans, that’s how team sport works no matter if it Britain poland or Jamaica,speedway football or hockey, speedway is a team sport and that’s what matters to fans, always has I've always been completely neutral. Ive had a go at riding myself and spent many a day at the old Sheffield academy. That given me a different perspective because I knew where the money would come from as a self employed person. In the end it didn't matter because I couldnt afford it. What it did was make me unattached. I'm mancunian but have no affiliation to belle vue. I just watch my racing there because its local and I enjoy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 Many moons ago Individual meetings were held at every track, sometimes three a season at some. But crowds began dropping for these and therefore the promoters ditched them. Team racing was the main pull back then, but that's diminished now as many fans feel riders are just individual riders squeezed into whichever team can fit them. They are merely agency workers now and I think they're getting the best deal from the current position we're in. The excuse that there aren't enough riders to stop doubling up or down is bull. I think promoters just got lazy and was ready made riders now instead of scouring the continent for new faces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoke Potter Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 7 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said: , yes better racing will help but it’s not a prority, it won’t get new fans to come, I've heard it all now! With an attitude like that you should be a promoter Felton old boy. Ask anyone who doesn't actually go and, if they've actually heard of the sport at all, they will all say first out of the start wins! Nowhere is that more true than the UK. The product is broken, you turn up, pay for 15 heats of racing and if you're lucky get 2 races and 13 processions! That's the major reason nobody goes, it's exactly why marketing drives at tracks don't work. People turn up for cheap or free admission and then the following week it's back to normal. Why? Because you're marketing a product nobody wants to watch. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acef Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, Grand Central said: I cannot say how much I disagree with your thinking. I am not basing this on ANY experience of Poland, Polish people or their similarties with the British. Iam basing it on BRITISH people. And how it has always been and always will. We want to support a team (and individuals, true) but a Team is King. We want it to win. And it is the 'joint experience' of an entusiastic crown willing that to happen that gives the buzz FAR FAR more than the 'racing'. I've only been watching since the mid 1960s, mainly at The Shay and much as people want to wax lyrical about the quality of racing from the past. That was not what got me going every week. Not one bit. IT WAS THE TEAM. And the riders; all of which I could still name for every single year. The racing has always been a side issue ... they make memories true, but the real BIG memories are about the atmosphere and tension relating to the TEAM/RIDERS and whether we could pull off a win or get another 5-1. Scrape or storm it. It was alll about the 'DUKES'(Team/Riders) NOT the bloody stadium, track or bikes. Never felt that way personally and the younger gereeation don't either imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 Just now, acef said: I've always been completely neutral. Ive had a go at riding myself and spent many a day at the old Sheffield academy. That given me a different perspective because I knew where the money would come from as a self employed person. In the end it didn't matter because I couldnt afford it. What it did was make me unattached. I'm mancunian but have no affiliation to belle vue. I just watch my racing there because its local and I enjoy it. And that’s cool and your perspective is not wrong but I think it’s in the minority riders aside 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acef Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, Stoke Potter said: I've heard it all now! With an attitude like that you should be a promoter Felton old boy. Ask anyone who doesn't actually go and, if they've actually heard of the sport at all, they will all say first out of the start wins! Nowhere is that more true than the UK. The product is broken, you turn up, pay for 15 heats of racing and if you're lucky get 2 races and 13 processions! That's the major reason nobody goes, it's exactly why marketing drives at tracks don't work. People turn up for cheap or free admission and then the following week it's back to normal. Why? Because you're marketing a product nobody wants to watch. Absolutely bang on the money. The team element will not change that perspective. The sport in its basic format just doesn't work in the UK. Its boring and until that changes crowds will continue to decline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 This is what I mean.. how can you forge a link with a team when this happens, just today? LEICESTER CHANGES - OUT Kenneth Bjerre, Krystian Pieszczek, Todd Kurtz, James Sarjeant. IN Scott Nicholls, Josh Auty, Stuart Robson, Connor Mountain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, acef said: Never felt that way personally and the younger gereeation don't either imo Really??? I think you are totally wrong. All team sport is like this and just as much today as at any time in the past. In all team sports people have THEIR 'Team' and that comes above everything else. I dont think I am saying anything perculiar; and certainly nothing that is at odds with how youngsters think. Just today there was a table in the papers showing that all the PL Fottball clubs Kit Pricing for the new season ... all costing upwards of £80 for Kidsand some double for adults To be dressed like this years team. It matters that much to be like your heroes that is what you pay. I know Footbal 'is different' in many respects. But ALL team sports are about team loyalty.... if they are getting it right. Tuning into that is the future. The only one. Worrying about the 'track' and 'racing' will get us absolutely nowhere. Edited July 18, 2018 by Grand Central Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWC Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 If supporters are not going to come flocking back then an alternative strategy is required. Reduce costs and start with the rider then a knock on effect will follow. Start with the tyres and make them do 2 meetings per tyre. That might get engine power down and then less dust so the supporter gets a better experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Stoke Potter said: I've heard it all now! With an attitude like that you should be a promoter Felton old boy. Ask anyone who doesn't actually go and, if they've actually heard of the sport at all, they will all say first out of the start wins! Nowhere is that more true than the UK. The product is broken, you turn up, pay for 15 heats of racing and if you're lucky get 2 races and 13 processions! That's the major reason nobody goes, it's exactly why marketing drives at tracks don't work. People turn up for cheap or free admission and then the following week it's back to normal. Why? Because you're marketing a product nobody wants to watch. More non fans would turn up to see 20 bad crashes on a crap track than 15 brilliant races on a perfect track, making a track perfect with perfect racing will do nothing to attract new fans Edited July 18, 2018 by THE DEAN MACHINE 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acef Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Grand Central said: Really??? I think you are totally wrong. All team sport is like this and just as much today as at any time in the past. In all team People who are into any sport have a 'Team' and that comes above everything else. Just today there was a table in the papers shoing that all the PL Fottball clubs Kit Pricing for the new season ... all costing upwards of £80 for Kidsand some double for adults To be dressed like this years team. It matters that much to be like your heroes that is what you pay. I know Footbal 'is different' in many respects. But ALL team sports are about team loyalty.... if they are getting it right. Tuning into that is the future. The only one. Worrying about the 'track' and 'racing' will get us absolutely nowhere. The sport is in double digit decline YOY. That isn't because we don't have teams anymore, because as far as I can see we still have about 35 'teams' remaining. It's because the sport in its main form bores people to tears. Like I stated earlier, ask anyone with limited knowledge and they will all tell you the same thing. It's just not exciting enough. They don't go to watch 'Belle Vue' the team, if that was the case, surely they'd come back??? Unfortunately they don't come back and that's because the entertainment value is non existent. Edited July 18, 2018 by acef 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 Any chance of this thread getting back on topic ? Still not a dickie bird from the BSPA, treating the fans with absolute contempt as usual. What ever we do to improve tracks , facilities, bikes, training or anything else, it will all be a waste of time while Chapman and Co operate under a veil of secrecy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acef Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) The team argument can quite simply be put to bed for me. Crowds are declining every day and that speaks volumes. If it was the team element that made people come back then they'd come back. They don't. End of argument as far as I'm concerned Edited July 18, 2018 by acef 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoke Potter Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said: More non fans would turn up to see 20 bad crashes on a crap track than 15 brilliant races on a perfect track, making a track perfect with perfect track will do nothing to attract new fans Don't agree. But how does your solution get the fans back then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoke Potter Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 1 minute ago, acef said: The team argument can quite simply be put to bed for me. Crowds are declining every day and that speaks volumes. If it was the team element that made people come back then they'd come back. They don't. End of argument as far as I'm concerned If the team argument were correct then the marketing would work to some extent but it doesn't so, yes, you are quite correct. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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