NO WORD FROM THE BSPA

[steve roberts]

35 minutes ago, Skidder1 said:

Having spent the last 2 hours going through this whole thread (yes sad isn't it?!) and also reading the SS every week, it seems to me that the sport will never reach a true concensus for the way forward even if it managed to get views from 75% of its patrons - and by 'patrons'' I include sponsors, advertisers and fans as well as riders/mechanics/tuners etc.

IMO the average fan wants to be entertained and get value for money. We must also accept that some fans (and clubs) both current and lapsed will also want what they deem to be 'top level speedway with top stars competing' whilst others will simply want regular good racing at a decent price.

As life in general - and speedway in particular - is all about compromise and choices, why not try:-

A 'One League' model comprising all current PL and CL clubs (plus a seperate NL as now) at around or slightly above the current Championship level, possibly split into regions;

Teams comprising 5 or 6 riders only, and featuring only those riders who are based in UK for the whole season.

13 heat format, with some form of engine restriction.

Adult Admission no more than £12; with very good family ticket prices.

PLUS - for those clubs/fans who have a history of and  feel that they would only support a strong top league, let them form a 'Super Elite League' if they feel it would work for them. So what if it might only have a handful of clubs and fixtures, but it features a good number of 'top' riders, if it works for them at whatever admission price would need to be set, then let them do it?! Some sponsors would definitely support it!

If it doesn't work then th'ey can still fall back to the 'One league' option the following season.?

 

...I admire your resilience!

[wealdstone]

1 hour ago, Daytripper said:

 Yes back to the subject. The BSPA have now pulled the plug on the   Lakeside -v- Peterborough fixture on 27th July. This fixture has now  been submitted, approved , withdrawn, re-instated and  withdrawn again. This would have been a profitable fixture for Lakeside , partly because it is the start of the school holidays, and partly because Peterborough is near enough to attract more visiting fans than most other clubs. Interestingly, it so happens that Scunthorpe are racing the same day.

Still no comment from the BSPA.

There was a BSPA meeting due to be held today. It remains to be seen whether the fans are given more   information after todays conflab, or whether we will once again be referred to the nearest brick wall for a full statement.

I have heard the expression "fans" said a member of BSPA but am not quite certain what it means

[DC2]

3 minutes ago, wealdstone said:

I have heard the expression "fans" said a member of BSPA but am not quite certain what it means

 

Doh ....... cos of the hot weather!  

 

[acef]

4 hours ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

Developed into what ? Bikes that don’t work in the wet or on anything other than a billiard table of a track, if tracks need to be like BV then why are the crowds so low ? Even the poles are looking into  engines, tracks have worked before with different engines, and people who think big tracks are the answer are wrong, 2 big tracks in poland are Gdańsk and gorzow, both get big crowds both have poor racing . I don’t think people are grasping how close other teams are to going the same way as rye house and it’s nothing to do with the size of the tracks or the engines being ridden, but unless costs are addressed the riders are going to be well out of pocket 

As I said earlier, it's not the track size that I have an issue with, so I'm not entirely sure why you've raised that point. 

Speedway should be about entertaining people. So if I could just address one or two of your points. Firstly I don't want speedway to work in the wet. It's boring. It's dangerous. It's never worked. 

Secondly, I've seen numerous top quality meetings on 'billiard' tracks. Conversely I've seen just as many on tracks with dirt on, just have a look at the NSS. 

I'm also fully aware of just how close the sport is to closing. I'm close enough to people involved in it. That is due to many many reasons and poor decision making in years gone by. 

As far as being out of pocket. I don't see that issue in Poland or Sweden. The top boys are making an absolute mint out of this sport. 

If riders can't afford it, then don't race it. It's not a cheap hobby. 

[acef]

2 hours ago, GWC said:

The majority of European tracks are purpose built for speedway.

UK has a history of a uding greyhound tracks as a venue to fit a track into. It’s part one of the evolution of the sport pre war and after and without those tracks speedway would never have suceeded and become a world sport.

It was fine to a point when the bikes were less powerful but the faster you go the narrower the track gets, try it on the motorway!

Changing track dimensions within the confines of an out of date stadia has been an on going challenge and has resulted in the drop in racing quality over safety in some cases ie overtaking!

 

Absolutely right. It's not an easy fix and whilst it's disappointing, the answer is going to be difficult to find. Imo, I don't think the sport has a future at a professional level here in the UK. Its been on life support for a long time, we are just counting down the days.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

22 minutes ago, acef said:

As I said earlier, it's not the track size that I have an issue with, so I'm not entirely sure why you've raised that point. 

Speedway should be about entertaining people. So if I could just address one or two of your points. Firstly I don't want speedway to work in the wet. It's boring. It's dangerous. It's never worked. 

Secondly, I've seen numerous top quality meetings on 'billiard' tracks. Conversely I've seen just as many on tracks with dirt on, just have a look at the NSS. 

I'm also fully aware of just how close the sport is to closing. I'm close enough to people involved in it. That is due to many many reasons and poor decision making in years gone by. 

As far as being out of pocket. I don't see that issue in Poland or Sweden. The top boys are making an absolute mint out of this sport. 

If riders can't afford it, then don't race it. It's not a cheap hobby. 

Yes the top boys are making a mint but that’s not true of the lesser riders , some of the deals the reserves are on is poor, I agree it’s not cheap, my point is the sport is pretty much finished as a professional sport in Britain for now and needs to realise this and accept it and build itself back up which is going to take time ,riders are going to get less money, I’m trying to give something back to them, I don’t really care if they loose money but I would rather the sport moves forward and it’s cheaper for the riders and more importantly the fans, I didn’t raise the point of track size someone else did I was just replying to it, the NSS doesn’t have a lot of dirt, it’s a relatively slick track but what dirt it does have works because of the speed you can carry into it but if it were made grippy the racing would be poor just like the world team cup semi final last year, it was a one line boring meeting because the rain got into the surface and made more dirt 

Edited July 17, 2018 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[acef]

26 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

Yes the top boys are making a mint but that’s not true of the lesser riders , some of the deals the reserves are on is poor, I agree it’s not cheap, my point is the sport is pretty much finished as a professional sport in Britain for now and needs to realise this and accept it and build itself back up which is going to take time ,riders are going to get less money, I’m trying to give something back to them, I don’t really care if they loose money but I would rather the sport moves forward and it’s cheaper for the riders and more importantly the fans, I didn’t raise the point of track size someone else did I was just replying to it, the NSS doesn’t have a lot of dirt, it’s a relatively slick track but what dirt it does have works because of the speed you can carry into it but if it were made grippy the racing would be poor just like the world team cup semi final last year, it was a one line boring meeting because the rain got into the surface and made more dirt 

Slicker tracks are better imo. 

There is no easy way to address the problem. I agree with your end game, we share that, but I can't agree with the how. 

The sport works on the continent. By messing around with the equipment your creating a variation of speedway that would be exclusive to the UK. That would alienate half the foreign riders and kill our nations development internationally. I've seen enough cost cutting in this sport over the last 2 decades to understand it doesn't work. It just drives more fans away. 

Every rider and club has a minimum operating cost. The answer to it isn't slicing things in half again and diluting something that works well in other places, its about increasing revenue. 

Edited July 17, 2018 by acef

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

58 minutes ago, acef said:

Slicker tracks are better imo. 

There is no easy way to address the problem. I agree with your end game, we share that, but I can't agree with the how. 

The sport works on the continent. By messing around with the equipment your creating a variation of speedway that would be exclusive to the UK. That would alienate half the foreign riders and kill our nations development internationally. I've seen enough cost cutting in this sport over the last 2 decades to understand it doesn't work. It just drives more fans away. 

Every rider and club has a minimum operating cost. The answer to it isn't slicing things in half again and diluting something that works well in other places, its about increasing revenue. 

The cost cutting with engines has nothing to do with general cost cutting, faster and faster more expensive engines serves no benifit to speedway, yes we would be going out on a limb but poland also believe that something should be done about engines but they are not sure what, as hard as it would be to implement a standard engine of some sort which effectively eliminates the external cost of engines would be a great step forward for speedway with no downside to the quality of the sport world wide and we should be  seeking to make this happen, talking to a top rider last year he was saying half his engine bills and you could half his earnings as his take home pay would still be the same 

[Ray Stadia]

25 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

The cost cutting with engines has nothing to do with general cost cutting, faster and faster more expensive engines serves no benifit to speedway, yes we would be going out on a limb but poland also believe that something should be done about engines but they are not sure what, as hard as it would be to implement a standard engine of some sort which effectively eliminates the external cost of engines would be a great step forward for speedway with no downside to the quality of the sport world wide and we should be  seeking to make this happen, talking to a top rider last year he was saying half his engine bills and you could half his earnings as his take home pay would still be the same 

Perhaps the answer is to put a proper cap on what the promoters pay a rider. If a rider wants to blow all his earnings on 'feeding' a tuner, that will be up to him. However, if there is a sensible, laid out, suggestion/example of how a riders earnings translate into bike expenses, transport, clothing and overall profit, then a rider can have a bit of an idea, how much he wants to commit to engine tuning and number of bikes. Surely, most riders, riding in the UK, can exist with 2 bikes? Maybe also a spare engine, in case of a blow up. But then, maybe that is how they do run their affairs, but still can't square the circle?    

[mikebv]

"Doing exactly the same thing over and over again and each time expecting a different result" - The definition of insanity...

For circa the past 15 years or so in particular (via the onset of Social Media) those who purport to run the Sport have been told to stop doing certain fundamental things, and start doing certain other fundamental things, over and over again by the fans as we believed it could only end up one way if they carried on with their 'plans'...

So actually maybe we are as insane for doing the same thing over and over again thinking they would listen and change??

Without going through 'all our yesterdays/I remember when this was all fields' etc etc Speedway used to 'work'...

And in the main when it 'worked' you had some top riders who were fully professional with the vast majority of riders semi pro (and lots of lads coming through at 'entry level' dreaming of stardom and riches)..

Those semi pro riders were very happy earning what some described as a months money from their "proper job" every week by riding Speedway...

This, although a bit 'back to the future', surely has to be the target for promoters?

Riders riding twice a week, home and away, earning an average of say £900 a night?

That would bring in £7200 a Month for 'Mr. Average'?

The average wage in Britain is £524 per week, I would suggest therefore that £1800 a week not a bad return at all?

Spend £4.5k a night on a five man team and you need £9k to be cleared from your home meeting to pay the rider bill. 1000 punters paying £15 after vat would clear £12k..

£7200 a month for 'Mr Average'?

With the deal of 'be there EVERY meeting/take it or leave it'..

Feasible?

Anyway, back on topic..

Of course we may be missing something ourselves and that the reason why no news has been forthcoming is that there is nothing to report..

Because everything is fine...!

 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2018 by mikebv

[waytogo28]

4 hours ago, mikebv said:

Of course we may be missing something ourselves and that the reason why no news has been forthcoming is that there is nothing to report..

Because everything is fine...!

I feel that that is the case. The BSPA will go on with their pointless changes within UK speedway until there are 2-300 fans at tracks ( or less ) and it is kept going by sponsors who also dream they are "running a major sport" when in fact merely a handful of the general public have an interest in it. Truly the emperor's new clothes syndrome at it's best.

[mikebv]

33 minutes ago, waytogo28 said:

I feel that that is the case. The BSPA will go on with their pointless changes within UK speedway until there are 2-300 fans at tracks ( or less ) and it is kept going by sponsors who also dream they are "running a major sport" when in fact merely a handful of the general public have an interest in it. Truly the emperor's new clothes syndrome at it's best.

And has been for many, many years..

All in charge of tiny, tiny fiefdoms...

Many acting with ignorance (or design) in 'splendid isolation', to keep their level of (in their own eyes only) importance at the required level...

Who knows?..

Maybe Green Helmet covers are coming back and that will be the sports saviour? 

(But they don't want to officially announce it yet as they have set up a 'think tank' to decide  on what particular shade of Green will be allowed)...

Edited July 18, 2018 by mikebv

[moxey63]

As a fan of some years, it wasn't always about how good the racing was or if my team won. There are so many things about speedway you can like. For example, I personally noticed less interest when the Golden Double was introduced compared to the old tac sub, which allowed more team switches from heat four onwards, as long as the arrears was sufficient. Tthe Golden Double killed it and, once used, the match points mainly always ended up with the other side. Tac subs kept matches alive and interesting to fans on the terraces. In addition to the green helmet (ah ah), I'd go back to the future and re-introduce this. It's not all about the racing but the chance of being a terrace team manager and trying to fathom who'd be brought in as the tac for the next race.  

Edited July 18, 2018 by moxey63

[acef]

10 hours ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

The cost cutting with engines has nothing to do with general cost cutting, faster and faster more expensive engines serves no benifit to speedway, yes we would be going out on a limb but poland also believe that something should be done about engines but they are not sure what, as hard as it would be to implement a standard engine of some sort which effectively eliminates the external cost of engines would be a great step forward for speedway with no downside to the quality of the sport world wide and we should be  seeking to make this happen, talking to a top rider last year he was saying half his engine bills and you could half his earnings as his take home pay would still be the same 

The going out on a limb bit really bothers me. I'll never agree to that. 

If something can be implemented by the FIM or BSI that would be applied across the sport then I'd be all for it. 

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

12 minutes ago, acef said:

The going out on a limb bit really bothers me. I'll never agree to that. 

If something can be implemented by the FIM or BSI that would be applied across the sport then I'd be all for it. 

What ever way we take we are going out on a limb and is going to be painful, so we need to step back regroup and try to make the sport great again, GB set up will keep those riders good enough to compete on the world stage up to that standard but the bread and butter speedway in Britain has got to step away from the speedway we know, nobody really wants to do  it but what is the alternative ?

[moxey63]

1 minute ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

What ever way we take we are going out on a limb and is going to be painful, so we need to step back regroup and try to make the sport great again, GB set up will keep those riders good enough to compete on the world stage up to that standard but the bread and butter speedway in Britain has got to step away from the speedway we know, nobody really wants to do  it but what is the alternative ?

To stop the decline we must take some radical steps. If it means spooning the cream from the top and relying on mainly bread and butter riders for our dish, then it's got to be done. Possibly by allowing riders to ride for other foreign teams has brought us to where we are. We need a fixture list free from any other distractions - Grand Prix and other leagues. We need a league big enough to give what riders decide to accept the new rules enough meetings to make a decent addition to outside employment. British speedway should not be looked upon as providing any rider with a living income. It is not Formula One. It needs to act now to reintroduce a fan's attraction to follow a team of riders who they can grow to rely on and those men can concentrate fully on fulfilling what that fan hands over his cash at the turnstiles for. The lure of following a team of seven riders - the same seven riders - is, as a fan, what makes you wanna leave the house on matchday for. 

[mikebv]

35 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

To stop the decline we must take some radical steps. If it means spooning the cream from the top and relying on mainly bread and butter riders for our dish, then it's got to be done. Possibly by allowing riders to ride for other foreign teams has brought us to where we are. We need a fixture list free from any other distractions - Grand Prix and other leagues. We need a league big enough to give what riders decide to accept the new rules enough meetings to make a decent addition to outside employment. British speedway should not be looked upon as providing any rider with a living income. It is not Formula One. It needs to act now to reintroduce a fan's attraction to follow a team of riders who they can grow to rely on and those men can concentrate fully on fulfilling what that fan hands over his cash at the turnstiles for. The lure of following a team of seven riders - the same seven riders - is, as a fan, what makes you wanna leave the house on matchday for. 

You can still get paid a 'lot of money' per night riding Speedway in GB..

I am sure alluding to my previous post re £900 a night twice a week you would get plenty of riders from around GB wanting to take you up on the deal..  And that is for 'Mr Average/semi pro/middle order man' don't forget..

Both teams paid in full on the night by balance transfer (Internet banking is available!). 

No cash in the account to pay, then no running the meeting...

Start with five man teams then build up the number if income allows..

If you can get foreign riders over then great (but it must be viable)..

Run 25 home and away meetings minimum so 'Mr Average/semi pro/middle order man' gets himself circa £45k.. Pro rata per annum £90k for six months work... Not bad money that...

Edited July 18, 2018 by mikebv

[Humphrey Appleby]

8 hours ago, mikebv said:

The average wage in Britain is £524 per week, I would suggest therefore that £1800 a week not a bad return at all?

Does the average worker also have to buy and maintain expensive equipment, and are they likely to get injured or dropped after one match with no compensation? 

It's trying compare and apples and pears, but the reality is that no matter how much riders may or may not deserve the wages they get, it comes back to the fact that sport can only afford to pay what it generates in revenue. 

[Daniel Smith]

I still say there should be a payment cap with every rider in the league paid the same inc bonus points.

Premiership - £100pp - £12 admission - No Concessions - Kids Free

Championship - £50pp - £9 admission - No Concessions - Kids Free

National League - £20pp - £7 admission - No Concessions - Kids Free

The better talented rider's would still rise to the top and leave it to the rider's how they spend their money on equipment. Common sense may then prevail that they can profit just as well being a 2nd string on average equipment than the guy spending thousands at No1. That way eventually the costs on equipment slowly comes down to earn more money, even the No1's will soon realise. 

[Fromafar]

30 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Does the average worker also have to buy and maintain expensive equipment, and are they likely to get injured or dropped after one match with no compensation? 

It's trying compare and apples and pears, but the reality is that no matter how much riders may or may not deserve the wages they get, it comes back to the fact that sport can only afford to pay what it generates in revenue. 

The main point being is that the sport can only pay out what it can afford what it generates in revenue,many clubs are paying out more than they can afford and it has come to a head.They simply can't keep raising Admission and hope the fans keep paying up,which what they seem to think is the answer.!