Next season. Cancel BT deal and take broadcasting inhouse.

[Midland Red]

I've never supported the idea that live broadcasting of league racing in the UK was of benefit to the sport

Certainly for it to be broadcast whilst other tracks are staging meetings makes absolutely no sense

Clearly what money has been provided over the years has not been used for the good of the sport - some pockets have been lined instead

I confess that I'm not au fait with "live streaming" but I get the idea - correct me if I'm wrong - that the broadcast is via t'internet, thus to PCs, iPads, iPhones, etc - can't see how that can attractively compare with the big tv in the big room in the house!  I can watch a meeting on the tv in comfort, but I wouldn't want to sit at my computer or on my iPad for 2+ hours - particularly if it depends on broadband speeds 

I'm sure there's a lot more to it than I know!

Edited July 3, 2018 by Midland Red

[DC2]

14 hours ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

(BT gives us) the perfect platform and get decent viewing figures but we can’t get our own house in order, we need to turn the viewing figures into punters on the terraces and we will never do that with in house filming, we have to be out there in the big wide world 

 

You know, that sounds good, but without evidence, it’s just a guess. And there’s no evidence that BT league coverage has brought in new fans and boosted attendances; quite the contrary in all probability, with existing fans watching on TV rather than attend a televised meeting.

The GPs give speedway sufficient coverage to “attract” new fans. That’s a sufficient public profile for that purpose.

The broadcasting of league meetings by the BSPA itself could be about direct revenue rather than profile, grossing maybe £100k a month (10,000 subscribers at £10 each). 

I doubt that the local businesses who sponsor clubs value BT’s coverage as only three or four matches per team are televised and national advertising is of little worth to local businesses.

 

[dj350z]

9 minutes ago, Midland Red said:

I've never supported the idea that live broadcasting of league racing in the UK was of benefit to the sport

Certainly for it to be broadcast whilst other tracks are staging meetings makes absolutely no sense

Clearly what money has been provided over the years has not been used for the good of the sport - some pockets have been lined instead

I confess that I'm not au fait with "live streaming" but I get the idea - correct me if I'm wrong - that the broadcast is via t'internet, thus to PCs, iPads, iPhones, etc - can't see how that can attractively compare with the big tv in the big room in the house!  I can watch a meeting on the tv in comfort, but I wouldn't want to sit at my computer or on my iPad for 2+ hours - particularly if it depends on broadband speeds 

I'm sure there's a lot more to it than I know!

You would be able to watch it on a smart TV. 

[Steve Shovlar]

9 minutes ago, Midland Red said:

I've never supported the idea that live broadcasting of league racing in the UK was of benefit to the sport

Certainly for it to be broadcast whilst other tracks are staging meetings makes absolutely no sense

Clearly what money has been provided over the years has not been used for the good of the sport - some pockets have been lined instead

I confess that I'm not au fait with "live streaming" but I get the idea - correct me if I'm wrong - that the broadcast is via t'internet, thus to PCs, iPads, iPhones, etc - can't see how that can attractively compare with the big tv in the big room in the house!  I can watch a meeting on the tv in comfort, but I wouldn't want to sit at my computer or on my iPad for 2+ hours - particularly if it depends on broadband speeds 

I'm sure there's a lot more to it than I know!

Yes there’s a lot more to it than that.

For starters just because it’s streamed doesn’t mean you have to watch it on a laptop, ipad or anything in between. I watch internet streamed Polish speedway on a sunday afternoon in HD on a 55 inch TV. You can either do this directly through a smart tv, or you could use a laptop or ipad, or iphone, or android phone, to stream via Google Chromecast for a 30 quid outlay. I use Chromecast to watch youtube on tv. All extremely simple to use.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

6 minutes ago, DC2 said:

 

You know, that sounds good, but without evidence, it’s just a guess. And there’s no evidence that BT league coverage has brought in new fans and boosted attendances; quite the contrary in all probability, with existing fans watching on TV rather than attend a televised meeting.

The GPs give speedway sufficient coverage to “attract” new fans. That’s a sufficient public profile for that purpose.

The broadcasting of league meetings by the BSPA itself could be about direct revenue rather than profile, grossing maybe £100k a month (10,000 subscribers at £10 each). 

I doubt that the local businesses who sponsor clubs value BT’s coverage as only three or four matches per team are televised and national advertising is of little worth to local businesses.

 

It’s not a guess, the viewing figures are good for such a minor sport.10,000 subscribers to a speedway in house effort ? Knock a zero off that and you would be closer, on sponsorship there are company’s out there who think nothing of throwing  £50,000 at a live event on tv, we just need to show we are worthy of which we curently do not , in house nobody will see it and no company of any statue would be interested in sponsoring it, why would they ? 

[DC2]

1 hour ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

It’s not a guess, the viewing figures are good for such a minor sport.10,000 subscribers to a speedway in house effort ? Knock a zero off that and you would be closer, on sponsorship there are company’s out there who think nothing of throwing  £50,000 at a live event on tv, we just need to show we are worthy of which we curently do not , in house nobody will see it and no company of any statue would be interested in sponsoring it, why would they ? 

 

I’m still not getting your point.

A company might pay £50k to advertise on TV but that money goes to BT, not the speedway clubs. None of the advertising on televised speedway benefits the sport, it benefits the TV companies! The clubs do not benefit at all, in fact they lose out because more existing fans stay away from the televised matches than new fans drawn in by the publicity.

 

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

1 hour ago, DC2 said:

 

I’m still not getting your point.

A company might pay £50k to advertise on TV but that money goes to BT, not the speedway clubs. None of the advertising on televised speedway benefits the sport, it benefits the TV companies! The clubs do not benefit at all, in fact they lose out because more existing fans stay away from the televised matches than new fans drawn in by the publicity.

 

That’s because speedway doesn’t have anyone to deal with these company’s, BT does, my point is the £50,000 sponsorship deals are there, it’s a question of who goes out gets it? . The sport is bordering on shambolic and every decision says desperate, get our act together and show BTs audience we are worth it and maybe these company’s will want to come on board like they do in poland but if they do they want nationwide coverage like BT not some channel seen by one man and his dog ,a good case in point was the GP at the weekend ,it was sponsored by WD40 a house hold name, on every bike, pretty much every TV shot and caption, shown on BT sport, Nsport, danish tv, Swedish tv and a few other channels around the world with exposure to around a million people and they didn’t pay a penny to the tv company’s it all went to bsi, they wouldn’t be interested in a channel seen by 1000 if that, BTs league coverage is also shown on polish tv 11sport 

Edited July 3, 2018 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[HenryW]

It's an interesting point that Polish TV also pick up the BT broadcast. Do they make their viewing figures public?

I wonder if anyone has approached Polish companies about advertising at the TV matches?

[DC2]

2 hours ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

That’s because speedway doesn’t have anyone to deal with these company’s, BT does, my point is the £50,000 sponsorship deals are there, it’s a question of who goes out gets it? . The sport is bordering on shambolic and every decision says desperate, get our act together and show BTs audience we are worth it and maybe these company’s will want to come on board like they do in poland but if they do they want nationwide coverage like BT not some channel seen by one man and his dog ,a good case in point was the GP at the weekend ,it was sponsored by WD40 a house hold name, on every bike, pretty much every TV shot and caption, shown on BT sport, Nsport, danish tv, Swedish tv and a few other channels around the world with exposure to around a million people and they didn’t pay a penny to the tv company’s it all went to bsi, they wouldn’t be interested in a channel seen by 1000 if that, BTs league coverage is also shown on polish tv 11sport 

 

OK, get that point. The BSPA need to go to WD40 and offer them coverage on next season’s 18 matches of the WD40 British League on BT Sport, assuming the contract with BT does not give BT all advertising rights (other than the local stuff in the stadiums).  I’m not aware that there’s any such sponsorship this season so that’s a fab idea. Hopefully it might bring in £100k? “WD40” on the start girls tops?  

 

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

4 hours ago, HenryW said:

It's an interesting point that Polish TV also pick up the BT broadcast. Do they make their viewing figures public?

I wonder if anyone has approached Polish companies about advertising at the TV matches?

Don’t know what figures they get but the 11sport channel also show Swedish league as well as polish first division and a fair few polish test matches 

[flagrag]

Trust me streaming of meetings in the UK has been looked into before by Sky and the current infrastructure at UK stadiums is not up to the standards required.

i remember a run in to the play offs one season and I think the main match was at Poole but Coventry had a key meeting and wanted to feed in some races and interviews we had to use an IPad and send the footage as a file rather than live. Also some stadiums won’t co operate in the last season on Sky at Poole second play off semi kept getting postponed but Sky wanted to feature races on Sky sports news but stadium would allow any internet use so had to send satellite uplink truck just for a 1 camera production.

I know from speaking to colleagues at BT that relationships are no better for TV meetings with clubs refusing OB companies and TV crew use of their Wi-fi even just to send emails and internet/social media hence BT guys have 4G mifi devices and use personal phones.

To run a paid for streaming service is not as easy as just using a domestic fibre broadband connection it would need to be a dedicated leased line with 1-1 contention and say 100Mbps each direction will be looking at around £800-1000 a month that is then needed at each track. Even the ATR betting trial was costing them £250 a week plus over 40k setup fee just for connectivity. Interestingly most of this kit is still at the stadiums so could be used again.

You can go along the 4G bonded route where broadcasting kit sends the pictures over 4G mobile networks using 8-12 sims combined but this is prone to buffering and mobile networks have started traffic managing this traffic due to the strain it puts on their core network 

The best hope is 5G mobile this may bring the cost down and have the capacity to do this but is a few years away yet. You could get a 2 camera OB with satellite uplink for £500 a meeting but still need the server and backhaul to get pictures on the internet for paid site or can go free route with You Tube 

[Jonny the spud]

I love the way some people are great at spending other people’s money. 

 

They’re normally the the ones who moan about the entrance cost at a meeting. 

[Midland Red]

19 hours ago, Steve Shovlar said:

Yes there’s a lot more to it than that.

For starters just because it’s streamed doesn’t mean you have to watch it on a laptop, ipad or anything in between. I watch internet streamed Polish speedway on a sunday afternoon in HD on a 55 inch TV. You can either do this directly through a smart tv, or you could use a laptop or ipad, or iphone, or android phone, to stream via Google Chromecast for a 30 quid outlay. I use Chromecast to watch youtube on tv. All extremely simple to use.

Thanks for that - appreciated

I get the impression that this isn't really the way to attract a new audience, particularly to the tracks, which is what is needed

I still think a "highlights programme" on tv is the way forward rather than live league matches on Mondays

[Steve Shovlar]

BT meetings don’t attract more fans to tracks and bt don’t pay any proper money for the meetings. Rather speedway took the money generated by subscriptions than bt who get profit for nothing.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

20 minutes ago, Steve Shovlar said:

BT meetings don’t attract more fans to tracks and bt don’t pay any proper money for the meetings. Rather speedway took the money generated by subscriptions than bt who get profit for nothing.

If we go with the mindset of there is no benifit of to putting our product out to a huge potential audience like on BT and all that matters is to stop the dwindling fan base on a Monday night tv meeting then we may as well go with no tv coverage at all and you say BT get all the profit for nothing, we get live speedway put on a major TV network and it doesn’t cost us anything, we lose money because we can’t get people to attend in numbers anymore but that’s not BT’s fault it’s ours 

Edited July 4, 2018 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[BurntFaceMan]

On 7/2/2018 at 1:24 PM, Steve Shovlar said:

The deal that the BSPA have with BT is not worth it. A few promoters argued this at the time and I was one who thought it was imperative that speedway in the UK had a tv deal. Now I have changed my mind and believe BSPA should pull out of the deal and get a streaming channel up and running for next season. 

The BT deal brings in no money. In fact it costs clubs as the hosting club loses revenue when BT are in town. Unless BT come in with a deal similar to what Sky were paying, then time to say goodbye.

In its place, a monthly subscription to a streaming service. £20 a month for 2 live meetings a week, one from the Prem and one from the Championship, as well as behind the scenes shows, interviews, q&a sessions live where fans can ask questions to riders/promoters etc, which are being produced by companies such as speedway portal. The money is then divided up between clubs. This will bring in far more than BT are offering. 

Promoters may think they would lose money as fans would watch online and not attend. But I wouldn't’ attend Belle Vue v Swindon but would pay a subscription to watch it. And then clubs would benefit.

There would be no problem having video companies do the streaming. I bet Pete Ballinger or Speedway Portal would be keen as mustard to get the chance.

Thoughts?

I spent 5 years negotiating with Go Speed International for the rights to this service. Multiple clubs refused and despite numerous proposals at the AGM the promoters refused to get on board with the service.

[Steve Shovlar]

I said earlier bt pay the hosting club £3000 to televise the meeting. I was wrong. BT pay the hosting club nothing. Zip. Nada. Ziltch. 

 

 

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

1 hour ago, Steve Shovlar said:

I said earlier bt pay the hosting club £3000 to televise the meeting. I was wrong. BT pay the hosting club nothing. Zip. Nada. Ziltch. 

 

 

and speedway pays nothing either to BT for showing its live product nationwide and beyond, it is failing not because of BT but because of us, I agree would should get something but do we deserve to ? the official viewing figures for the rye house tv meeting were 53,000 which is good for any sport on BT other than football and on that basis yes we do deserve to be paid, but look at the product on show, racing aside there was a couple of hundred people there and that isn't going to get any casual viewer to want to attend anytime soon , it was flat like watching a church fair with some bikes and do we deserve to be paid by BT or anyone to watch that? for the deal to benefit us we need to show the world we are exciting and the place to be, on TV meetings the stadiums need to be buzzing, I know its catch 22 situation but BT are giving us the platform to take our sport to the masses but we are not delivering, if we delivered we may just catch the attention of some sponsorship fro a major company and then we strengthen our position to go and get something from BT or another network

Edited July 4, 2018 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[BurntFaceMan]

deleted

Edited July 10, 2018 by BurntFaceMan

[Reliant Robin]

12 hours ago, Steve Shovlar said:

I said earlier bt pay the hosting club £3000 to televise the meeting. I was wrong. BT pay the hosting club nothing. Zip. Nada. Ziltch. 

 

 

Correct, BT do not pay the hosting Club. They pay BSPA a license fee for the season which is then distributed how BSPA see fit. Equates to a lot more than the initial £3k per meeting you had said.