Aces51 Posted July 8, 2018 Report Share Posted July 8, 2018 6 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said: Belle Vue Colts is £10. But are they making a profit? There is no way that any stand alone team would be viable at the NSS at that price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted July 8, 2018 Report Share Posted July 8, 2018 1 minute ago, Aces51 said: But are they making a profit? There is no way that any stand alone team would be viable at the NSS at that price. It would be difficult to tell given that they aren't stand alone. Their gates are comparable with most NL sides, I'd say. Thing is if they didn't think the price was right they'd charge more - most NL tracks are 20-30% dearer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted July 8, 2018 Report Share Posted July 8, 2018 22 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said: Didnt say they werent - but those sides need a further 5 point reduction for the financials suggested It's riders wages that need reduced for the financials .! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2 Posted July 8, 2018 Report Share Posted July 8, 2018 18 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said: Josg G is closer to 9 at Championsip level on his own..... Even by your example of not much difference Berwick cant make it pay at £15 let alone your suggesed £12 Well, maybe we are looking at 16 teams for one big league, with the current three least profitable ones (including Berwick?) dropping to the NL? We know the likes of Orion want Polish style teams, but Poland has crowds of 10,000, not 1,000, so we have to cut our cloth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted July 8, 2018 Report Share Posted July 8, 2018 8 minutes ago, DC2 said: Well, maybe we are looking at 16 teams for one big league, with the current three least profitable ones (including Berwick?) dropping to the NL? We know the likes of Orion want Polish style teams, but Poland has crowds of 10,000, not 1,000, so we have to cut our cloth. There is certainly a fair arguement for that Can any team attracting 4-600 attendances really make even a further reduced Championship level pay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adonis Posted July 8, 2018 Report Share Posted July 8, 2018 think we need squads of 8 or 10 semi pro riders . much tighter controls on engine state of tune , tyres that can last 3 or 4 meetings . basicly back to 1970 , some sort of second half for the riders who dont make the team each week to keep them interested , If tv don't want to pay a fair fee to cover the loss on the gate , ditch it . that's about the only way speedway can operate lower admission without losing money , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted July 8, 2018 Report Share Posted July 8, 2018 13 minutes ago, Fromafar said: It's riders wages that need reduced for the financials .! Agree and in line their costs also need to reduce Was speaking only yesterday with Nicki Lanham. Its not that ling ago that Leigh started and at that time a carb fir example could be picked up for £40 where as now you can be looking at £700 Even allowing for standard inflation thats an extrordinary increase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2 Posted July 8, 2018 Report Share Posted July 8, 2018 6 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said: There is certainly a fair arguement for that Can any team attracting 4-600 attendances really make even a further reduced Championship level pay? No. I suspect 800 is an absolute minimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 8, 2018 Report Share Posted July 8, 2018 1 hour ago, INCOGNITO said: As an EXAMPLE only this is the sort of standard we need to be looking at and charging no more than £12 entrance fee for adults and £25 a family ticket (2/2) BELLE VUE - Craig Cook, Steve Worrall, Dan Bewley, Paul Starke, Damian Drzodz, Kyle Bickley, NL 2.00 BERWICK - Josh Grajczoneck, Kevin Doolan, Aaron Summers, David Howe, N B Jacobsen, Jye Etheridge, NL 2.00 WOLVES - Rory Schlein, Kyle Howarth, Thomas Jorgensen, Luke Becker, Ashley Morris, Nathan Greaves, NL 2.00 With teams of this strength as an example you could run at wages that won't break the bank (see original post) and lower entrance fee to no more than £12. You still have seven riders wearing your club colours and they are not doubling up (NL only) and fans can relate to these riders much more when they are yours and not shared. You get a varied fixture list with a different team visiting each week on your chosen race night. We have a wage bill that is affordable and as original post, the home track pays the set wages for riders from both teams using the attendance money so riders are not owed money and paid on the night they have just earned. We see more places for British youngsters progressing and getting rides and we see just as entertaining races watching Worrall v Howarth or Howe v Becker as you do watching Doyle v Fricke or Thorssell v Bjerre. COST EFFECTIVE - RIDERS PAID - VARIED FIXTURES - YOUR RACE NIGHT - MORE BRITISH RIDERS - WEEKLY MEETINGS - YOUR TEAM I think your price point is around ball park where it should be.... Not sure it would support 14 riders per night... I would suggest though it would support 10... If the five per team were the following.. 1. Prem Heat Leader (current No1 or No2 in averages for their teams)@ £1500 a night 2. Championship Heat Leader/Prem Second String @£1000 a night 3. As above... 4. Champ Second String/Prem Reserve@£750 a night 5. As above... Total cost £5k a night (£10k for two matches).. At £12 you will need 1000 to pay VAT and riders.. Obviously there are other costs.. If you were looking at an average team strength I would suggest 27.5 based on the Prem.. So every teams mean average per rider is a 5.5... With a No5 on no less than a 3.00 ave to ensure no 'make weights' and keep the racing hopefully competitive.. Eg No1@8.50, No2@6.50, No3@5.00, No4@4.00, and No5@3.50 Two teams made up of roughly that should see a competitive meeting, and hopefully be afforded.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted July 8, 2018 Report Share Posted July 8, 2018 31 minutes ago, DC2 said: Well, maybe we are looking at 16 teams for one big league, with the current three least profitable ones (including Berwick?) dropping to the NL? We know the likes of Orion want Polish style teams, but Poland has crowds of 10,000, not 1,000, so we have to cut our cloth. Do you know the finances of Teams,I think Finances will become the major topic in the next few weeks there are big drop in crowd levels at MOST tracks this season but would imagine riders wages stayed the same regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted July 8, 2018 Report Share Posted July 8, 2018 Said many times before I know but I get the feeling this winters AGM really is the last chance to get some things at least sorted, rumours persist that there is one Championship team who hasn't paid their riders for a week or two, and a Premiership team who are the verge of going the same way as Rye House. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted July 8, 2018 Report Share Posted July 8, 2018 2 hours ago, DC2 said: Well, maybe we are looking at 16 teams for one big league, with the current three least profitable ones (including Berwick?) dropping to the NL? We know the likes of Orion want Polish style teams, but Poland has crowds of 10,000, not 1,000, so we have to cut our cloth. I am warming to the idea of a lower number of teams in one big league. It may be the only way forward. The 7 strong Premier League is not pulling in punters and no-one can afford ( or risk ) Swedish style teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCOGNITO Posted July 8, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2018 3 hours ago, mikebv said: I think your price point is around ball park where it should be.... Not sure it would support 14 riders per night... I would suggest though it would support 10... If the five per team were the following.. 1. Prem Heat Leader (current No1 or No2 in averages for their teams)@ £1500 a night 2. Championship Heat Leader/Prem Second String @£1000 a night 3. As above... 4. Champ Second String/Prem Reserve@£750 a night 5. As above... Total cost £5k a night (£10k for two matches).. At £12 you will need 1000 to pay VAT and riders.. Obviously there are other costs.. If you were looking at an average team strength I would suggest 27.5 based on the Prem.. So every teams mean average per rider is a 5.5... With a No5 on no less than a 3.00 ave to ensure no 'make weights' and keep the racing hopefully competitive.. Eg No1@8.50, No2@6.50, No3@5.00, No4@4.00, and No5@3.50 Two teams made up of roughly that should see a competitive meeting, and hopefully be afforded.. If you look at the original post it says about wages and how it's paid on the day. i have spoken to a few riders and they would be happy with this method and offer and these are the sort of riders you would have in the league scoring points with some maybe 3-5 and some much higher. Wages would be around £8,000 a meeting for both teams so a crowd of 700 at £12 each would cover that and at those prices with the right promotional issues met through the sport you should be able to attract double that at most tracks. The extra goes towards running costs like rent and remember there would be less money needed for flights but most importantly riders get paid and it creates more varied fixtures. How do Ipswich fans miss their clash with Kings Lynn or how many would be at Sheffield v Belle Vue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted July 9, 2018 Report Share Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) 20 hours ago, screm said: Said many times before I know but I get the feeling this winters AGM really is the last chance to get some things at least sorted, rumours persist that there is one Championship team who hasn't paid their riders for a week or two, and a Premiership team who are the verge of going the same way as Rye House. I am quietly confident that the problem of helmet colours ( and their not staying in place ) will be high on the agenda at the next AGM. And the rule that if your steel shoe comes off you will be disqualified. Edited July 9, 2018 by waytogo28 Additional point made 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 9, 2018 Report Share Posted July 9, 2018 21 minutes ago, waytogo28 said: I am quietly confident that the problem of helmet colours ( and their not staying in place ) will be high on the agenda at the next AGM. And the rule that if your steel shoe comes off you will be disqualified. Not forgetting the several pre AGM's held to agree the biscuits.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted July 9, 2018 Report Share Posted July 9, 2018 The next AGM will be Titanic-themed and all the promoters will have instruments at the ready. Kazoos and such if nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny the spud Posted July 9, 2018 Report Share Posted July 9, 2018 23 hours ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said: Agree and in line their costs also need to reduce Was speaking only yesterday with Nicki Lanham. Its not that ling ago that Leigh started and at that time a carb fir example could be picked up for £40 where as now you can be looking at £700 Even allowing for standard inflation thats an extrordinary increase I last raced 22 years ago and a half decent (BZ) carb was £550 then. Carb technology has moved on. Of course I could have picked up a 1950’s Wal Phillips injector for £40 and would have spent half my time breaking down, blowing engines and putting out fires. A second hand Blixt (the best out there) can be picked up for £200+ at the moment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted July 9, 2018 Report Share Posted July 9, 2018 2 hours ago, waytogo28 said: The next AGM will be Titanic-themed and all the promoters will have instruments at the ready. Kazoos and such if nothing else. First things first though mate, before they start discusing next seasons rules and regs, we need a change at the top, because imo it is just not working. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted July 9, 2018 Report Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Jonny the spud said: I last raced 22 years ago and a half decent (BZ) carb was £550 then. Carb technology has moved on. Of course I could have picked up a 1950’s Wal Phillips injector for £40 and would have spent half my time breaking down, blowing engines and putting out fires. A second hand Blixt (the best out there) can be picked up for £200+ at the moment. I shall be sure to ask Nicki why he lied to me when I next see him Perhaps it shows Leigh (and all of us) are older than we think and feel We were talking about when Leigh first started and how he made do with bits and pieces he could pick up in comparison to many starting today who want paid for vans and a stable of brand new kit etc It doesnt make them any faster whilst Leigh with his old Wal Phillips (sic) was posting times within a second of the main meeting at 14...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble53 Posted July 9, 2018 Report Share Posted July 9, 2018 On 6/29/2018 at 7:22 AM, waytogo28 said: Unless you are posting rather "tongue in cheek"? The FRN was poorly thought through ( or did the Premiership teams capitulate on which nights they could use? Were they outvoted? ) by promoters and fans if they believed all clubs could pull in a "decent" crowd on a different night - especially on a Monday, because the sport was so enticing and irresistible. There are no other nights available after taking in Poland, Sweden, Denmark and the FIM events, so it seems like it was a calculated gamble by the BPSA. And one that went so very wrong. I think we will just about get what the punters want and will "buy", when we give up using those riders in demand elsewhere IF there is still an appetite for speedway racing in the UK. 2 When you consider that the preferred FRN's were Monday & THURSDAY.......Simple answer....Yes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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