AGM MADE PUBLIC

[Steve0]

The weakening of the top league has been going on for many years but more significantly over the last 5-6 years.  It has always irked me that the team that wins the league one season has to be broken up the next to be within a points limit that more suits the bottom team than the top one!  

For years Eastbourne was the team dragging everyone down, then Ipswich etc.  Sadly that decline in standards has continued and hit a low when fast track reserves were introduced - these riders were primarily NL riders who weren’t good enough to secure a CL slot but were blooded in the PL - total madness.  This was the final straw for me and I have only been to a handful of meetings since - waiting for Speedway to solve their major issue - value for money.  Rather than solve that issue they continue to dilute the league, tinker with the rules (astride the bike at the gate etc) and meeting scheduling is all over the place - sometimes no meetings for weeks and then 3 in a week and appear to do nothing positive while more and more fans desert the sport - never to return!

Some people will say that the fast track system was a success because it brought on some of these riders - but they would have equally progressed in the CL - the main success was in reducing costs and driving more people away from the sport.

Even today there are several reserves who are out of their depth in the PL e.g. Max Clegg, Jack Smith (and Mitchell Davey before him) etc.

As a sport, I am just watching the decline continue until it finally dies what has been a long and painful death.

Rant over!

 

 

[Aces51]

I don't dispute that the absence of the top riders may have contributed to the sports problems but the reality is that the decline started in the 1980's, long before the top riders started to disappear, which was about 2005. We lost more fans in that period than we have since. I can only speak from personal experience but I can't recall that crowds dropped noticeably at Belle Vue when Zagar departed or, returned when he came back, or even when we lost Crump. We are now down to the hardcore and I suspect that many of those are more concerned about seeing good racing than the absence of a GP star. I didn't even notice any increase when Somerset visited this year with the World Champion. The SON had the rare appearance of Woffinden in the UK and other world class riders but attracted a very poor crowd at the NSS although, to be fair, the ticket prices may have put off some. 

The public profile of the sport is zero so advertising the appearance of a world class rider isn't likely to attract many newbies to attend. They won't have heard of him so won't have a clue who he is.

Go back to the drawing board. Use only riders prepared to commit to the UK, pay out only what is affordable, rebrand the sport as extreme, emphasise the dangers, allow riders to react to situations and to the referees decisions, make the governance and operation of the sport credible and make the presentation dynamic and up to date. and maybe crowds will start to build. Over time new stars and heroes will be made. Ensure that they interact with the fans. Continue to develop British youngsters and the standards here will improve and if the sport prospers we will at some point be able to compete again with the Poles and Swedes.

There isn't really an alternative. We can't afford to bring back the top riders now, the money isn't there and they don't want to come. We can't carry on as we are this year because it isn't working or even providing a basis on which we can build fur the future.

[R87]

14 hours ago, Mediman said:

Can it be salvaged yes but only if those who oversee the sport want it to . 

 

Absolutely.   However,  i think quite a few promoters seem quite happy for speedway to be run in this low key and amateurish manner where they can have a social gathering and chat to the riders in the bar afterwards.

I know one former promoter once said to me that the BSPA is like a gentleman club who close ranks when someone comes along with a bit of vision and threatens to shake things up.

Edited July 1, 2018 by mb1990
Additional information

[ch958]

19 hours ago, mikebv said:

A World Class No1 'top rider' would cost around £3k a night (and maybe more if you listen to some in the Sport)..

That means a track would have to find £6k from each home meeting for the two matches he rides home and away..

At £18 an adult to get in, each punter minus the VAT would generate £14.40...

That means you need 416 punters through the gate just to pay for him..

With some clubs running meetings in front of not many more than 600 in total, that would leave not much over £2500 to pay the other six riders for TWO meetings...

Some serious sponsorship needed to pay for that 'top rider' I would suggest as long gone are the days when any 'top rider' puts a tangible 500 or so 'extra' on the attendance..

stop talking sense - its obviously not wanted on here.

Let those who are moaning about no 'stars' pay for one themselves cos nobody else will -it would be suicide. 

Theres only one side of this argument with its head in the clouds

[chunky]

25 minutes ago, ch958 said:

stop talking sense - its obviously not wanted on here.

Let those who are moaning about no 'stars' pay for one themselves cos nobody else will -it would be suicide. 

Theres only one side of this argument with its head in the clouds

Spot on.  Yes, it is nice to have to have "superstars", and they obviously draw the crowds.  However, these days - certainly in the UK - the cannot draw sufficient crowds to warrant their inclusion.  How many times has it been said on here that speedway is "four blokes racing motorbikes"?  However much some don't want to believe it, that is true; it is not about ONE "superstar" showing up.  It saddens me to hear those who say, "To me, it's all about the top guys.  Second strings and reserves aren't important, and neither are the lower divisions."  The top boys only represent - and have historically only represented - the top 5% or so of the sport.  We can lose the top 5% - and of course, we pretty much have done - and the sport will survive.  Lose the other 95%, and we are done...

Whether we like it or not, speedway can be very exciting and entertaining WITHOUT that 5%, but the important thing is that we run a sensible and VIABLE sport.

Steve

[orion]

46 minutes ago, ch958 said:

stop talking sense - its obviously not wanted on here.

Let those who are moaning about no 'stars' pay for one themselves cos nobody else will -it would be suicide. 

Theres only one side of this argument with its head in the clouds

And what we are doing at the moment is suicide ... the people with heads in the clouds are people thinking that keep making the league weaker will make things better even thou we have been doing the same thing for the last 20 years .

7 riders of crap standard who turn up every week and wave to the crowd and do a wheelie and talk to 70 year old people in the bar after wont save the sport ..what other sport thinks by making the standard worse that crowds will get better ? by somehow speedway fans think this is the way .unreal 

[OldRacer]

1 hour ago, orion said:

what other sport thinks by making the standard worse that crowds will get better ? by somehow speedway fans think this is the way .unreal 

Reducing the standard isn't intended to get greater crowds.  It is to reduce losses and to prevent more tracks from closing due to bankruptcy.

[orion]

3 minutes ago, OldRacer said:

Reducing the standard isn't intended to get greater crowds.  It is to reduce losses and to prevent more tracks from closing due to bankruptcy.

Not doing to well in doing that is it ?

[OldRacer]

1 minute ago, orion said:

Not doing to well in doing that is it ?

There would be a lot more closed/closing tracks if each team was paying a GP star to be their number 1. So yes, it is.

[orion]

4 minutes ago, OldRacer said:

There would be a lot more closed/closing tracks if each team was paying a GP star to be their number 1. So yes, it is.

When did I say anything about gp riders as no 1's  ? I say the standard getting lower 

[OldRacer]

34 minutes ago, orion said:

When did I say anything about gp riders as no 1's  ? I say the standard getting lower 

The standard is getting lower because that is what the crowds can support. Paying riders more than crowds can support is unsustainable.

Take a look at the brief history of the Reading Bulldogs for an example of a promotion who brought in top riders they couldn't afford in the hope that the crowds would follow.

[orion]

36 minutes ago, OldRacer said:

The standard is getting lower because that is what the crowds can support. Paying riders more than crowds can support is unsustainable.

Take a look at the brief history of the Reading Bulldogs for an example of a promotion who brought in top riders they couldn't afford in the hope that the crowds would follow.

Losing fans that will never come back is unsustainable where have you been the last 20 years  ..for the  Reading story read Poole who had a high standard team and were making a profit each year  to now where the crowd are 50 % less due to not being able to do the same .

 

[OldRacer]

1 hour ago, orion said:

Losing fans that will never come back is unsustainable where have you been the last 20 years  ..for the  Reading story read Poole who had a high standard team and were making a profit each year  to now where the crowd are 50 % less due to not being able to do the same .

 

There are many tracks that do run a sustainable business with lower crowds than 20 years ago.  Some have dropped down a division, but each must cut the cloth according to their means.

Your description of Poole is nothing like the Bulldogs story. A new promotion came in and moved the team into the top flight with a strong, expensive team. They told the fans that they needed a certain number through the gate to make it work.  Effectively the fans were told to choose whether to support a top team or not.  They voted with their feet and the promotion lost a packet.  I would not recommend other promotions do the same.

[ch958]

Maybe we should do what Woffy's Swedish club has alledgedly done - sign him but don't pay him!

[MARK246]

50 minutes ago, ch958 said:

Maybe we should do what Woffy's Swedish club has alledgedly done - sign him but don't pay him!

Even after all the rumours from previous years, he was still willing to sign there, rather than a British club.

That tells you more about the state of British speedway than any forum thread.

[ch958]

yeah it was a gag don't worry.

 

[orion]

15 hours ago, OldRacer said:

There are many tracks that do run a sustainable business with lower crowds than 20 years ago.  Some have dropped down a division, but each must cut the cloth according to their means.

Your description of Poole is nothing like the Bulldogs story. A new promotion came in and moved the team into the top flight with a strong, expensive team. They told the fans that they needed a certain number through the gate to make it work.  Effectively the fans were told to choose whether to support a top team or not.  They voted with their feet and the promotion lost a packet.  I would not recommend other promotions do the same.

Why would be the same .it was not the point i was making .you gave a example of why we should  not have strong teams become  reading went bust .so I am giving you example back of when not having top riders has hurt another club .. it's not hard to follow .Losing fans that never come back is not sustainable for anyone but the plan is to carry doing that ..amazing .

[INCOGNITO]

On 1 July 2018 at 8:31 AM, Najjer said:

The answer to this has been given and suggested by Steve Shovlar already. I'll use a few examples to try and emphasis the point. Why should Somerset if they afford the world champion, why should Kings Lynn if they can afford Iversen and Lambert, why should Poole if they are happy to spend money on the riders they wish to do so, why should Leicester not be able to sign Andersen, Bjerre or even Vaculik etc, and then all come down to a level to suit a much less better off financial or ambitious club... ASSUMING (that's a reasonably big assumption) the other clubs already named can make it work currently financially? 

Why not have a maximum points limit of 45.00 (rough guide) and it's down to teams to manage themselves to work within their means. If that meant Rye House as an example, couldn't then sign Kasprzak because of his air fares and couldn't offer the ridiculous money they offered to Harris and Nichols to ensure they signed for them, then so be it and it would free them up to sign for somebody who could afford them. It's down to clubs to manage themselves a lot better in my opinion.

 

Pits fine that a few tracks can pay the bigger names but how many of these are doing it through the finances of the club. Some of these are met by outside business interests and it's not about the few it's about all tracks pulling together to rebuild at one big league.

 

Only if you used Championship averages could you do a 45 limit as there wouldn't be the riders around to fill all teams as doubling up is another disease that has eaten away at British Speedway. 

 

Using only Premiership averages upto say 35 would mean Belle Vue, Wolves, Poole etc coming down to the level of Ipswich, Sheffield, Redcar etc. If Leicesterbwant to sign Andersen on say 7.89 then fine but that takes a big chunk out of the limit and on the plus side would mean they are more likely to have two NL reserves.

[INCOGNITO]

On 1 July 2018 at 6:15 AM, mikebv said:

 

And if clubs are struggling now with a circa £18 attendance fee seemingly proving to be very dissuasive for so many, how much would they need to charge to cover a 'top riders' wages on top of their current expenditure.?

 

If you want the likes of Woffinden, Hancock, Sayfutdinov etc to ride here you would have to increase admission of a track that gets one thousand regulars to about £23 to include just one so adding two would be £28 and roughly four to five pound on top for each top rider.

 

Or about an extra 250 REGULAR new fans for each top rider you employ which won't happen as many don't go now as they feel £18 isn't value for money and very few riders would want to ride here in a league of 28 (now 24) meetings as a minimum.

 

 

British Speedway has to go with what it can afford and rebuild using NL riders at reserve but also make the NL a learning league as it used to be and not fill it up with Championship riders like Perks, Shanes etc

[mikebv]

46 minutes ago, INCOGNITO said:

 

If you want the likes of Woffinden, Hancock, Sayfutdinov etc to ride here you would have to increase admission of a track that gets one thousand regulars to about £23 to include just one so adding two would be £28 and roughly four to five pound on top for each top rider.

 

Or about an extra 250 REGULAR new fans for each top rider you employ which won't happen as many don't go now as they feel £18 isn't value for money and very few riders would want to ride here in a league of 28 (now 24) meetings as a minimum.

 

 

British Speedway has to go with what it can afford and rebuild using NL riders at reserve but also make the NL a learning league as it used to be and not fill it up with Championship riders like Perks, Shanes etc

You know that....

Many others know that....

But will the Ego of some Promoters accept that? 

I am not too sure...

Taking 'Selfies' and filling your Facebook pages with you alongside International Speedway riders is very important to some.....

Looking at the general average crowd to matches I have attend this season in the Prem, I would suggest about (max) 1200 is ball park...

After VAT that gets you around £17,000 at £18 entry.. 

Take off £3k (maybe more?), for the running costs and that would leave around £14k to pay your seven riders two meetings worth of money.  (Or £7k a night).. 

You may make a few quid on Car Park, Programmes, Food and Drink and have some Sponsorship to boost the coffers..

Bottom line is £7k a night per team is simply too much to pay out and £18 is too high a price to pay in...

Drop the admission to £15 and spend £5k a night and you may have a fighting chance...

If you can find seven riders to ride for £5k then run seven man teams..

If you can only find six or five riders to ride for £5k then run six or five man teams...

The standard just needs to be relatively equal.. It doesn't need to be World Class.. 

Just competitive..