Najjer Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 The reality is that the ideal scenario is two leagues: The top division being a mix of this years Premiership sides being joined by the top Championship teams like Sheffield, Ipswich, Edinburgh, Glasgow etc. Pretty much at Premiership standard. The second division being a mix of the bottom lower budgeted Championship sides like Redcar, Berwick etc. And then the National League teams too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVEHOLS54 Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, Najjer said: The reality is that the ideal scenario is two leagues: The top division being a mix of this years Premiership sides being joined by the top Championship teams like Sheffield, Ipswich, Edinburgh, Glasgow etc. Pretty much at Premiership standard. The second division being a mix of the bottom lower budgeted Championship sides like Redcar, Berwick etc. And then the National League teams too. I suppose if you also do away with Prem/Champ double ups then this years potential League winners i.e Lakeside would be well and truly butchered for 2019 considering the likes of Morris/Lawson/Ellis/Zach W and even Newman possibly. I know any restructuring would have some winners and losers but man that would be brutal if they won the Champ this season which a distinct possibility with their big home advantage and decent riders this season. They could be left with Morley and Alfie Bowtell. Certainly any restructuring would not be an easy fix to plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCOGNITO Posted June 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 4 hours ago, Call me wolfie said: How can you build teams to a 35 average, it's not workable. Simple maths will tell you that if you build a team to 35, at the end of the first season most teams averages will add up to around 40 - 45 35 is an estimated limit and I have put down teams to see if they can be fitted in with riders with new riders coming in from abroad and plenty of NL drafts. It may seem to week for some but you have to realise we have been running at a level the sport can't afford for too long already. we are now at a stage that we can't afford overall the riders we have at number one in some teams. It needs to be all clubs working together so Redcar or Workington can compete at a level with Belle Vue or Poole. Aces he's for example could have a team along the lines of Cook 8.2, Worrall 6.6, Bewley 6.3, Drzodz 5.5, Etheridge 4.3, Smith 2.00 and a 2.00 draft. That is a team that could compete against the current Redcar team which would be at the same level, just maybe a bit more balanced We all want to see bigger names here but we need variety and need weekly action at a level that is affordable while also giving British riders a better chance of progressing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 but Redcar can't afford the team they currently have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, STEVEHOLS54 said: I don't agree with 35 points either (see my latest post). However INGOGNITO's post is well thought out and provides plenty of sensible content. I am sure Speedway in one big league could live with a higher than 35 limit if they also introduce say N/L under 21's at 2 points per rider and say up to 2 per team but at least one per side as a minimum. Let the sides themselves then decide if they want to go top heavy on points or maybe strength in depth like say Lakeside have this season. Individual clubs personal finances would dictate what they can and cant afford but let's not kill the entertainment value totally but at the same time make the sport more financially viable for the majority and not the odd minority. Yep if there is enough to go round then yes every team should take a 2 pointer N/L development rider. But i still say build to a maximum of 42 then, its down to the clubs how they want to build, but you are going to have to have a ruling on how many riders over a certain average to make it a reliativly level playing field. But people will still moan when Matt finds a rider who can improve a ton foreign or English.. Edited June 28, 2018 by Starman2006 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midland Red Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 Did you take VAT into account? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 Most fans seemed to be happy with the outcome of this years AGM, fixed race nights meaning full 1-7 for all teams with no fixture clashes .A TV deal in place on "the home of bikes" BT sport and an end to the much hated double points, wasn't that supposed to bring the fans back ? What's gone wrong ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 3 hours ago, Najjer said: The reality is that the ideal scenario is two leagues: The top division being a mix of this years Premiership sides being joined by the top Championship teams like Sheffield, Ipswich, Edinburgh, Glasgow etc. Pretty much at Premiership standard. The second division being a mix of the bottom lower budgeted Championship sides like Redcar, Berwick etc. And then the National League teams too. Can't see many Championship Teams paying out money to ride and compete Premiership standard,think that is a major issue regarding 2 leagues .Some of these Teams will be struggling to break even on crowds they are getting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 1 hour ago, New Science said: Most fans seemed to be happy with the outcome of this years AGM, fixed race nights meaning full 1-7 for all teams with no fixture clashes .A TV deal in place on "the home of bikes" BT sport and an end to the much hated double points, wasn't that supposed to bring the fans back ? What's gone wrong ? Everything by the looks of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehone Posted June 28, 2018 Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 2 hours ago, Starman2006 said: Yep if there is enough to go round then yes every team should take a 2 pointer N/L development rider. But i still say build to a maximum of 42 then, its down to the clubs how they want to build, but you are going to have to have a ruling on how many riders over a certain average to make it a reliativly level playing field. But people will still moan when Matt finds a rider who can improve a ton foreign or English.. this isn't about Poole, think of the bigger picture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCOGNITO Posted June 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2018 20 minutes ago, Fromafar said: Can't see many Championship Teams paying out money to ride and compete Premiership standard,think that is a major issue regarding 2 leagues .Some of these Teams will be struggling to break even on crowds they are getting. Pits at Championship level hence the 35 limit which isn't far off what most Championship clubs are at now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 8 hours ago, New Science said: Most fans seemed to be happy with the outcome of this years AGM, fixed race nights meaning full 1-7 for all teams with no fixture clashes .A TV deal in place on "the home of bikes" BT sport and an end to the much hated double points, wasn't that supposed to bring the fans back ? What's gone wrong ? Unless you are posting rather "tongue in cheek"? The FRN was poorly thought through ( or did the Premiership teams capitulate on which nights they could use? Were they outvoted? ) by promoters and fans if they believed all clubs could pull in a "decent" crowd on a different night - especially on a Monday, because the sport was so enticing and irresistible. There are no other nights available after taking in Poland, Sweden, Denmark and the FIM events, so it seems like it was a calculated gamble by the BPSA. And one that went so very wrong. I think we will just about get what the punters want and will "buy", when we give up using those riders in demand elsewhere IF there is still an appetite for speedway racing in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisperer Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 I don't want to diss other opinions but those of you who can do the simple maths work out how many riders are realistically going to be available, the number of teams likely to be in one league and divide one into the other and that will tell you how many riders can be in a TEAM. Unless you are going to run 5 heat leaders then the points limit will be nearer 30, you are possibly making the assumption that 7 man teams are to stay, if they are then a lot of clubs will have to close. Even if you sweep all the riders from 3 leagues into one what will you be watching? If you do that the top riders will have a field day consuming more money per point and in effect the average cost per point could increase so that knackers the reduced admission ideas. Whatever the real solution is too many clubs are in too deep to take a gamble on any suggestions that are not within their scope of opportunity. I like the ideas of weekend racing alternate weeks, let those that wish f.. off to Poland and rebuild the sport around weekend CLUB racing, simplify the rules and work with what we've got not what we want. The reality of one league is fewer teams and fewer riders in each team, oh and a much lower points limit/standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mediman Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 While I agree to some extent what decent rider is going to race for those amounts let’s say I average 4 starts and get 10 points per meeting that’s £700.00 and I race 26 meetings a season and I keep up that average I get paid £18,200 . I have my transport costs , mechanic repairs food etc , sorry I would be lucky to clear 8k it’s not feasible. now if I am injured we’ll watch the figures plummet. speedway needs an overhaul totally agree it’s needs as I have said before an all party summit will it happen no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 41 minutes ago, Mediman said: While I agree to some extent what decent rider is going to race for those amounts let’s say I average 4 starts and get 10 points per meeting that’s £700.00 and I race 26 meetings a season and I keep up that average I get paid £18,200 . I have my transport costs , mechanic repairs food etc , sorry I would be lucky to clear 8k it’s not feasible. now if I am injured we’ll watch the figures plummet. speedway needs an overhaul totally agree it’s needs as I have said before an all party summit will it happen no 9-5 job is the answer.Speedway is not the answer if that is the case. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mediman Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 While I agree to some extent what decent rider is going to race for those amounts let’s say I average 4 starts and get 10 points per meeting that’s £700.00 and I race 26 meetings a season and I keep up that average I get paid £18,200 . I have my transport costs , mechanic repairs food etc , sorry I would be lucky to clear 8k it’s not feasible. now if I am injured we’ll watch the figures plummet. speedway needs an overhaul totally agree it’s needs as I have said before an all party summit will it happen no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 3 hours ago, waytogo28 said: Unless you are posting rather "tongue in cheek"? The FRN was poorly thought through ( or did the Premiership teams capitulate on which nights they could use? Were they outvoted? ) by promoters and fans if they believed all clubs could pull in a "decent" crowd on a different night - especially on a Monday, because the sport was so enticing and irresistible. There are no other nights available after taking in Poland, Sweden, Denmark and the FIM events, so it seems like it was a calculated gamble by the BPSA. And one that went so very wrong. I think we will just about get what the punters want and will "buy", when we give up using those riders in demand elsewhere IF there is still an appetite for speedway racing in the UK. So the way forward is for all Premiership clubs to run on the night of their choice and go back to the fiasco of teams made up of guests / RR due to fixture clashes / World Championship commitments like we had last year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces51 Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 2 hours ago, New Science said: So the way forward is for all Premiership clubs to run on the night of their choice and go back to the fiasco of teams made up of guests / RR due to fixture clashes / World Championship commitments like we had last year. Obviously, that is far from ideal but it seems fans at at least some of the teams who had to change their race night attend in bigger numbers on the traditional race night, even with guests and r/r, than they do on the fixed night. It's all about survival and that will depend on the BSPA doing whatever is necessary to get the most people through the turnstiles. Maybe the way forward is more educated fixture planning and a phasing out of doubling up over a set period of time, other than for youngsters using it as a transition to move up permanently to the PL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 6 hours ago, Mediman said: While I agree to some extent what decent rider is going to race for those amounts let’s say I average 4 starts and get 10 points per meeting that’s £700.00 and I race 26 meetings a season and I keep up that average I get paid £18,200 . I have my transport costs , mechanic repairs food etc , sorry I would be lucky to clear 8k it’s not feasible. now if I am injured we’ll watch the figures plummet. speedway needs an overhaul totally agree it’s needs as I have said before an all party summit will it happen no get a job, p/t if necessary, use half days, whatever. Do your own engines, get a bike rack for the car. The money isn't there to give them a living and we need to wake up to that pronto! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 1 hour ago, ch958 said: get a job, p/t if necessary, use half days, whatever. Do your own engines, get a bike rack for the car. The money isn't there to give them a living and we need to wake up to that pronto! Get real. All it will end up doing is forcing riders out of Britain to ride abroad or just retire. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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