AGM MADE PUBLIC

[ch958]

I am real-when i started watching thats exactly what happened.

The people who need to get real are those taking money out of the sport that isn't there. I wish it was and i wish they could.

looking at your profile that was yonks before you were born

Edited June 29, 2018 by ch958

[waytogo28]

20 hours ago, New Science said:

So the way forward is for all Premiership clubs to run on the night of their choice and go back to the fiasco of teams made up of guests / RR due to fixture clashes / World Championship commitments like we had last year. 

Unfortunately - "going back" is not an option for UK speedway. The shape of racing in the future here is going to be an entirely new one IF there is a future for it.

[INCOGNITO]

With the example pay rates of £50 a start and £50 a point you will get the riders you can afford. Number ones will most likely be riders like Steve Worrall, Jason Garrity etc and they would be around £250 start and £600 points money which won't be too far off what they are getting now.

 

They will have 36-40 league matches, plus cup matches so going on 40 meetings would be around £34,000 a year. Yes there is expenses which is why riders try and gain sponsors and being a number one they stand a better chance of improving current deals. Let's not forget that the riders at reserve will mainly be NL riders who will be picking up £400 if they score four from four which is more than they do in the NL.

 

Its also a lot more than most people pick up each week in 40 hours work and they could get that in one night and getting just third places. These are the riders that the sport can afford and will also make it more affordable for fans new and old. 

 

Also I think that the issue of the home track paying all wages would be of benefit these days. They have had the income and riders can be paid straight away. At present a club like Berwick could have four away meetings in a row. What money are they going to use to pay their riders which has been a problem for a few tracks in recent times. 

 

Its all all about talking and addressing issues and hopefully the BSPA will adopt this even if it's for guidance or ideas but certainly they need to listen to the fans that are left and to each other and work together. 

[Grachan]

Why on Earth anyone thinks that the best way forward for British speedway is to make it a sport less people want to watch is beyond me.

Surely the way forward is to get it out there and modernise presentation to make it a sport that people are happy to pay to watch.

Speedway's real current problems began with the weakening of teams and the lowering of standards. Everyntime they do it, more fans disappear.

Edited June 30, 2018 by Grachan

[orion]

5 minutes ago, Grachan said:

2hy on Earth anyone thinks that the best way forward forvBritish speedway is to make it a sport less people want to watch is beyond me.

Surely the way forward is to get it out there and modernise presentation to make it a sport that people are happy to pay to watch.

Speedway's real current problems began with the weakening of teams and the lowering of standards. Everyntime they domit, more fans disappear.

Sadly as you can see on this topic and many others speedway fans think the way forward is get less people to watch it ...it really is an amazing mind set .

[INCOGNITO]

What people really want is to see a Swindon side of Doyle, Morris, Zengota, Kildemand, Musielak, Bellego and Ellis against Wolves with Lindgren, Woffinden, Pawlicki, Thorssell, Masters, Howarth, Greaves and a top league along those lines. 

 

However a a number of those are not interested in riding here unless it's one fixed race night and about 14 fixtures, not the 28 or so and on two race nights. Britain can't afford the top riders anymore and they don't want us as it doesn't pay to be in a league racing on numerous race nights for what's on offer.

 

The sport here needs rebuilding at a cost that it can afford and at a price fans will be happy to pay and attractive to new fans as the sport needs to lower the average age of its supporters who are mostly middle aged people or older. To do that it needs to get back to basics and start at a level it can afford.

 

its no good dreaming of seeing Sayfutdinov v Zmarzlik or Woffinden v Pedersen on a British track apart from Cardiff. Those days have gone and the individual honours are now too important to top riders and the high rewards there and in Poland. 

We have to rebuild and give more chances to young riders. The NL is becoming a third league when it was supposed to be a training league to give riders the chance to progress. 

 

Its not what many want but it's what needs to happen and all tracks to stand together to create the variety required and the financial side to benefit clubs and spectators. Britain is so far behind other leagues it can't try and keep up and while there is a call to have league racing, it's simply not attractive enough at present to carry on as it is.

[Grachan]

36 minutes ago, orion said:

Sadly as you can see on this topic and many others speedway fans think the way forward is get less people to watch it ...it really is an amazing mind set .

I think some people would still be happy watching low quality teams so just assume everyone else will too. It is quite obvious that the weaker the leagues become, the lower the crowds get.

[stevehone]

2 minutes ago, Grachan said:

I think some people would still be happy watching low quality teams so just assume everyone else will too. It is quite obvious that the weaker the leagues become, the lower the crowds get.

but also affordable maybe

[Najjer]

2 minutes ago, stevehone said:

but also affordable maybe

Until the crowds drop further.... before you know it we are paying £20 to watch a load of amateur wobblers. That's not for me!

[Grachan]

15 minutes ago, INCOGNITO said:

What people really want is to see a Swindon side of Doyle, Morris, Zengota, Kildemand, Musielak, Bellego and Ellis against Wolves with Lindgren, Woffinden, Pawlicki, Thorssell, Masters, Howarth, Greaves and a top league along those lines. 

 

However a a number of those are not interested in riding here unless it's one fixed race night and about 14 fixtures, not the 28 or so and on two race nights. Britain can't afford the top riders anymore and they don't want us as it doesn't pay to be in a league racing on numerous race nights for what's on offer.

 

The sport here needs rebuilding at a cost that it can afford and at a price fans will be happy to pay and attractive to new fans as the sport needs to lower the average age of its supporters who are mostly middle aged people or older. To do that it needs to get back to basics and start at a level it can afford.

 

its no good dreaming of seeing Sayfutdinov v Zmarzlik or Woffinden v Pedersen on a British track apart from Cardiff. Those days have gone and the individual honours are now too important to top riders and the high rewards there and in Poland. 

We have to rebuild and give more chances to young riders. The NL is becoming a third league when it was supposed to be a training league to give riders the chance to progress. 

 

Its not what many want but it's what needs to happen and all tracks to stand together to create the variety required and the financial side to benefit clubs and spectators. Britain is so far behind other leagues it can't try and keep up and while there is a call to have league racing, it's simply not attractive enough at present to carry on as it is.

Even without GP riders, you could have a league of reasonable strength. You are proposing a points limit of 35. It seems that your idea of what speedway should be is just a few people gathered in the countryside watching their mates having a skid round.

That is fine at grass roots level, but the top league needs to improve its standard. I very rarely go to speedway these days, because, even though I like the Swindon side as I am used to those riders, the opposition never looks appealing.

I want to be enthused by speedway. It infuriates me to see people saying it should be driven down to such a low level.

It needs to get fans back in. It needs to get people like me back in.

[Grachan]

9 minutes ago, stevehone said:

but also affordable maybe

If the product is good, people will pay to go. 

[mikebv]

48 minutes ago, orion said:

Sadly as you can see on this topic and many others speedway fans think the way forward is get less people to watch it ...it really is an amazing mind set .

A World Class No1 'top rider' would cost around £3k a night (and maybe more if you listen to some in the Sport)..

That means a track would have to find £6k from each home meeting for the two matches he rides home and away..

At £18 an adult to get in, each punter minus the VAT would generate £14.40...

That means you need 416 punters through the gate just to pay for him..

With some clubs running meetings in front of not many more than 600 in total, that would leave not much over £2500 to pay the other six riders for TWO meetings...

Some serious sponsorship needed to pay for that 'top rider' I would suggest as long gone are the days when any 'top rider' puts a tangible 500 or so 'extra' on the attendance..

Edited June 30, 2018 by mikebv

[INCOGNITO]

27 minutes ago, Grachan said:

Even without GP riders, you could have a league of reasonable strength. You are proposing a points limit of 35. It seems that your idea of what speedway should be is just a few people gathered in the countryside watching their mates having a skid round.

That is fine at grass roots level, but the top league needs to improve its standard. I very rarely go to speedway these days, because, even though I like the Swindon side as I am used to those riders, the opposition never looks appealing.

I want to be enthused by speedway. It infuriates me to see people saying it should be driven down to such a low level.

It needs to get fans back in. It needs to get people like me back in.

 

26 minutes ago, Grachan said:

If the product is good, people will pay to go. 

 

Even the level it is now tracks can't afford it and fans are not willing to pay £18 to watch what's on offer and you are going to struggle to get any new fans unless you make it an affordable entertainment and that means getting to a £10 sport which many feel it should be now any way.

 

There are not enough people interested I speedway to pay for a strong product and the only hope of attracting new fans is to lower entrance fees. Crowds are dropping everywhere now and the interest in getting so thin it's no good trying to make the product stronger at a cost it can't afford, it has to rebuild. 

 

Tracks need to to pull together in one league and create a varied fixture list in one league, not two as present which isn't working. It therefore has to be a level the lesser tracks can afford

[orion]

41 minutes ago, Grachan said:

I think some people would still be happy watching low quality teams so just assume everyone else will too. It is quite obvious that the weaker the leagues become, the lower the crowds get.

Of course the standard answer is to have any 7 riders who ride and turn up every week and somehow the crowds will come back ..what other sport thinks that getting the standard lower will makes things better and will save the sport .

There no easy answers but the mind set must be to raise the standard of rider and make teams stronger not weaker ..Each year the same plan is to lower the standard (cut costs ) quite clearly it's not working but the answer to this is to do the same again .

 

[INCOGNITO]

So who is going to pay to make the product stronger and with what riders ?

 

The ones who keep saying we need it stronger are the ones that have top level speedway as it is now. We have just 8 teams in the top level, one not running as it can't afford to and needs to run at weekends and a few others running at a level it can't afford and running in the red as a business.

 

However fans of Ipswich, Redcar, Glasgow etc are happy with the level they are at and that's what the current Premiership clubs need to be running at. The 35 limit suggested is using Premiership averages all over which is where Glasgow, Ipswich etc are at now and it's getting Swindon, Belle Vue, Wolves etc to get to that level too.

 

Yes there are riders available to come in but not of the standard to run a top level as it is. Denmark have riders that would come in as do Sweden and other countries but none of these are riders that would improve a current Premiership team but would help fill the gap of doubling up riders we are currently doing. New NL riders moving up would also cover the gaps and hopefully a few NL tracks would look at riding at this level like Birmingham.

 

Can anyone really say that the current Premiership can survive as it is now. We can't afford as a sport to pay top riders or for that matter the next level like Kildemand, Kasprzak etc but we can offer a good entertainment package of a big league where Glasgow face Belle Vue and Kings Lynn face Ipswich or Poole v Lakeside if tracks work together.

 

Swindon fans would still follow their team if it dropped a level just as they do in football. If they tracked a team of Morris, Musielak, Ellis, Zach W and three lesser riders it would still get enough fans at £10 entrance fee to watch them ride against Lakeside or Peterborough and a different team each week, not the a,e teams over and over again and most importantly on the nights it wants to ride on.

 

Fixed race nights are fine for a top level league but only if you can afford one and Britain can't unless it rebuilds

[Mediman]

Don’t forget many Polish teams fine their riders very heavily if they miss racing due to accidents in other countries this is  quite common in contracts over there, so many top riders who earn top money don’t want to take the risk why would you if you are on €1000 per point and more.

Until we sort out foreign commitments more top talent like Lambert and Bewley will be prized away from our shores for the money on offer and can you really blame them.

With the BT deal worth so little , poor tracks , low attendances , high outgoings and a management committee not willing to listen to its  customers its no wonder the sport is in the state it is in . Can it be salvaged yes but only if those who oversee the sport want it to . 

 

[Grachan]

3 hours ago, INCOGNITO said:

 

 

Even the level it is now tracks can't afford it and fans are not willing to pay £18 to watch what's on offer and you are going to struggle to get any new fans unless you make it an affordable entertainment and that means getting to a £10 sport which many feel it should be now any way.

 

That's because the level it is at now is too low.

[mikebv]

5 hours ago, INCOGNITO said:

 

Can anyone really say that the current Premiership can survive as it is now. We can't afford as a sport to pay top riders or for that matter the next level like Kildemand, Kasprzak etc but we can offer a good entertainment package of a big league where Glasgow face Belle Vue and Kings Lynn face Ipswich or Poole v Lakeside if tracks work together.

The compound issue the sport now has is that the likes of those riders you mention, and others, have become '"No1's" with certain salary expectations. .

Bring back the 'top riders' and the current "No1's" wont be too keen on dropping their salaries I would suggest..

In fact, without the 'top riders' being over here a great many riders have 'moved up a place' in their respective teams (with the naturally improved salary that comes with it too I would have thought)..

Bringing back the 'top riders' would move a lot of riders down a level, eg the current "No1's" will drop down, heats leaders drop to second strings, second strings drop to reserve.

And I am not sure many will be too pleased with the change in package that goes with it (nor accept it)..

The bottom line is there must be some salary inflation that has occurred, for all riders, since the 'top riders' have departed in droves, therefore bringing them back and adding their salaries to the current mix would be an almost impossible thought for many clubs I would suggest..

And if clubs are struggling now with a circa £18 attendance fee seemingly proving to be very dissuasive for so many, how much would they need to charge to cover a 'top riders' wages on top of their current expenditure.?

Edited July 1, 2018 by mikebv

[Whisperer]

6 hours ago, orion said:

Of course the standard answer is to have any 7 riders who ride and turn up every week and somehow the crowds will come back ..what other sport thinks that getting the standard lower will makes things better and will save the sport .

There no easy answers but the mind set must be to raise the standard of rider and make teams stronger not weaker ..Each year the same plan is to lower the standard (cut costs ) quite clearly it's not working but the answer to this is to do the same again .

 

Everybody seems hooked on 7 man teams if it goes one league there simply isn't enough riders for 18/19 teams. You're looking at 5 man teams after 2 or 3 clubs drop out out. The last time it was one league Sheffield and Long Eaton were left without number 1's and when they came to town many folk saved their money and did something else. Like then there will be half a dozen teams that have the pick of the crop unless there is a low, low points limit to force riders to ride for the less well off clubs.

[Najjer]

7 hours ago, INCOGNITO said:

Can anyone really say that the current Premiership can survive as it is now. We can't afford as a sport to pay top riders or for that matter the next level like Kildemand, Kasprzak etc but we can offer a good entertainment package of a big league where Glasgow face Belle Vue and Kings Lynn face Ipswich or Poole v Lakeside if tracks work together.

The answer to this has been given and suggested by Steve Shovlar already. I'll use a few examples to try and emphasis the point. Why should Somerset if they afford the world champion, why should Kings Lynn if they can afford Iversen and Lambert, why should Poole if they are happy to spend money on the riders they wish to do so, why should Leicester not be able to sign Andersen, Bjerre or even Vaculik etc, and then all come down to a level to suit a much less better off financial or ambitious club... ASSUMING (that's a reasonably big assumption) the other clubs already named can make it work currently financially? 

Why not have a maximum points limit of 45.00 (rough guide) and it's down to teams to manage themselves to work within their means. If that meant Rye House as an example, couldn't then sign Kasprzak because of his air fares and couldn't offer the ridiculous money they offered to Harris and Nichols to ensure they signed for them, then so be it and it would free them up to sign for somebody who could afford them. It's down to clubs to manage themselves a lot better in my opinion.