AGM MADE PUBLIC

[INCOGNITO]

With the current state of British Speedway being at breaking point, now is the time that promoters and owners really need to listen to their customers or face the consequences that won't be reversed once the final straw has broken the donkeys back. 

 

For or this the sport needs to arrange at a big venue like the NEC a weekend of urgent and important talks required between all parties. One hall should be a Speedway Show with stands all around a small entertainment pitch while another open for an open forum with fans and sponsors able to voice concerns and views.

 

At the good food show they have a theatre at the end of the hall good for a decent crowd so this would be suitable for use of both sides. The trade stands pay to be there, fans pay £5 to enter the show and a further £5 to enter the theatre. This would go some way to meeting costs but most importantly it's an event that needs doing and tracks listen to the fans and sponsors.

 

The AGM could have a pre meeting before this and then the AGM concluded either on the Sunday at the show or finished at a nearby Conference Suite with just BSPA working together to get the sport back on line and look to the future for all. 

 

PROPOSED CHANGES / IDEAS

 

ONE LEAGUE combining current Premiership and Championship tracks to compete at Championship level but using Premiership averages and teams built to a 35 limit including at least one NL draft at 7 for each team.

 

RACE NIGHTS to suit each track. If Belle Vue want Friday's and Swindon Thursday etc then fine. If riders can't commit to British Speedway as priority (not including their home nation) then don't bother and stay abroad . 

 

FIXED PAY RATES / FEES There appears to be be money owed to riders in each league this year which shows the sport is running at costs far too expensive for the income. They are losing die hard fans and not attracting new customers and at £17-18 an adult for 15 one minute races they are not going to attract the numbers required to increase income and most importantly atmosphere to make it a better nights entertainment. 

 

There is is a weird way speedway clubs pay riders with the home team paying the visiting team a percentage of their wages according to the points they get. The visitors then make up the rest but if they haven't had a home meeting for weeks, they can only do this via private money. So a fixed pay rate, paid on the night should erase these issues and again, if it's not enough for a certain rider, then go find a track abroad where you can get 40 plus meetings and paid on the night. 

 

£50 a start - £50 a point means there is £500 on offer each race (£550 inc BP) gives you a wage bill of £7,500 a meeting (plus BP).

 

£10 Adult - £6 Concession - £1 Age 11-16 means you would need a crowd of 750 Adults to ensure the wage bill is met for that night (800 inc BP). If a track can't get a crowd of 750 for a meeting on their chosen race night at these prices then they are obviously in no fit state to ride at any level. Any extra income a track gets with a larger crowd can be used how they see fit, either meeting costs incurred or towards rent and expenses etc. However sponsorship money should be gained to meet running costs and stadiums that are rented also take the income off bars and food outlets. 

 

You our are not going to attract people at current rates. A young married couple come to the speedway after watching the GP the previous week. £36 for two adults, two kids at 12 and 9 costs just £1 and a programme a further £3. Then the kids want an ice cream, some chips and they all have a couple of drinks. You are now looking at roughly £70 paid out to stand on a grass bank or on old concrete terraces and watch fifteen one minutes races often with a large gap in between due to track grading or so many restarts due to movement at the tapes.

 

AVERAGES - Foreign riders come in on an assessed average and should keep that average until he reaches that level. If he has come in on a 6.00 average but is achieving 3.74 then any meeting he misses, his club can only use a guest or RR based on his real average of 3.74. If that track wants to bring him back next year then it will be on 6.00 but will they want a rider than scores three or four

 

WHAT THIS GIVES YOU

VARIETY - Not the same teams over and over again

WEEKLY - With 18-20 tracks, plus Cup matches you are looking at 22 meetings on average giving weekly meetings and not one every three weeks and then two in a week to catch up.

TEAM - The seven riders you have are YOUR riders not also riding elsewhere

YOUNG RIDERS - Using Premiership averages and seven riders to a limit of 35 most will need a 2.00 rider at number seven. These are draft riders and as teams are at a Championship level then Redcar, Workington etc won't be looking at having to get in better riders but teams like Belle Vue, Wolves and Swindon going to their levels. This will create more spaces for riders to move up into as most if not all reserves will be British riders.

ATMOSPHERE increases with the more people there. Attracting new fans at these rates should be much easier and hopefully local pubs, clubs or associations will get involved and make it a more regular night out. Colleges, large companies, military bases etc can be approached to hopefully double the current levels

 

 

OVERALL it's making British Speedway more affordable on both sides and building from a solid new foundation. It gives tracks their required race night and more opportunities for British riders.

 

MAKE THE AGM PUBLIC AND LISTEN TO THE FANS .... May even make a few bob holding the Speedway weekend and without major changes it will be last out please turn off the lights

 

[Fromafar]

Sensible post regarding changes/ ideas IMO .I am of similiar opinion but being a "forum fanny"" it doesn't count.Average crowds of 750 are pretty hard going at a lot of tracks these days IMO,but run correctly we could get them back up to this level.

Edited June 28, 2018 by Fromafar

[DC2]

 

Good for you. Let’s hope the Rye House problem sees the start of a proper debate by sensible people, rather than the usual ragbag response of sticking plasters and self-interest.

[Grachan]

Why would you run a sport where you are hoping to attract a crowd of 750? With Championship level sides and a top average of 35 you'd be lucky to get that many there anyway.

I remember Swindon in the second division, and, even now in these supposed troubled times, the crowds are a lot higher than they were then.

It may make sides financially manageable, because it will basically be a hobby  sport, but it isn't going to attract decent crowds.

Make the product entertaining instead of having an atmosphere like a garden fete, and people will go.

I just want speedway to be something that attracts me and makes me want to attend. I hope it doesn't end up at such a low level.

[INCOGNITO]

1 minute ago, Grachan said:

Why would you run a sport where you are hoping to attract a crowd of 750? With Championship level sides and a top average of 35 you'd be lucky to get that many there anyway.

I just want speedway to be something that attracts me and makes me want to attend. I hope it doesn't end up at such a low level.

 

British Speedway needs to be employing riders it can afford and that means at a level we don't really want but it's a level needed to rebuild and be affordable. With current levels and prices for fans, tracks can't afford to pay riders three grand a night and with just 18 tracks remaining in the top two leagues it needs everyone fighting together to save the sport here.

 

Bring in Sayfutdinov, Bring in Zmarzlik etc but the level we all want to see would mean charging £30 a meeting and crowds of 5,000 and we are struggling to get people to pay £18 now and tracks getting a fifth of that. If you can't afford a Ferrari, get a Ford Focus and run financially viable and less behind curtain deals

[Starman2006]

I dont like your idea of building to a 35 limit, you are way off there. Who the hell you going to get. 7 juniors ?

[Grachan]

13 minutes ago, INCOGNITO said:

 

British Speedway needs to be employing riders it can afford and that means at a level we don't really want but it's a level needed to rebuild and be affordable. With current levels and prices for fans, tracks can't afford to pay riders three grand a night and with just 18 tracks remaining in the top two leagues it needs everyone fighting together to save the sport here.

 

Bring in Sayfutdinov, Bring in Zmarzlik etc but the level we all want to see would mean charging £30 a meeting and crowds of 5,000 and we are struggling to get people to pay £18 now and tracks getting a fifth of that. If you can't afford a Ferrari, get a Ford Focus and run financially viable and less behind curtain deals

I just don't see how the answer to a sport that is losing appeal is to make it even less appealing. Team strengths drop and crowd levels go down with it.

Surely the current level of top flight - which, in itself is pretty weak - can be manageable with a view to improving it over time.

Keep dumbing down and the sport dies. Crowds started dwindling as soon as the low points limits were introduced.

A 35 points limit will get crowds of about 300. And there will still be a team at the bottom who can't attract fans.

[Haza]

One things for certain speedway clubs are living beyond there means either cut costs or increase income that simple -the total failure of promotion to promote the sport and riders wanting cash that frankly isn’t there is a lot of the problem - until this is sorted the sport will continue to die 

[The Cheese]

Fixed pay rates will never work, we're talking about a group of people who it seems are happy to do anything to get an advantage over everybody else, there will always be one who's prepared to pay more to get the best.

On making the AGM public, I do like the idea of a group of old ladies furiously waving their programme boards at Matt Ford when he somehow manages to get a vote passed which allows Janowski and Dudek to come in on 3 point averages. 

[Starman2006]

38 minutes ago, Haza said:

One things for certain speedway clubs are living beyond there means either cut costs or increase income that simple -the total failure of promotion to promote the sport and riders wanting cash that frankly isn’t there is a lot of the problem - until this is sorted the sport will continue to die 

Very synical.  or jealous whichever one you prefere..

[therefused]

21 minutes ago, Starman2006 said:

Very synical.  or jealous whichever one you prefere..

what?

[Call me wolfie]

2 hours ago, INCOGNITO said:

With the current state of British Speedway being at breaking point, now is the time that promoters and owners really need to listen to their customers or face the consequences that won't be reversed once the final straw has broken the donkeys back. 

 

For or this the sport needs to arrange at a big venue like the NEC a weekend of urgent and important talks required between all parties. One hall should be a Speedway Show with stands all around a small entertainment pitch while another open for an open forum with fans and sponsors able to voice concerns and views.

 

At the good food show they have a theatre at the end of the hall good for a decent crowd so this would be suitable for use of both sides. The trade stands pay to be there, fans pay £5 to enter the show and a further £5 to enter the theatre. This would go some way to meeting costs but most importantly it's an event that needs doing and tracks listen to the fans and sponsors.

 

The AGM could have a pre meeting before this and then the AGM concluded either on the Sunday at the show or finished at a nearby Conference Suite with just BSPA working together to get the sport back on line and look to the future for all. 

 

PROPOSED CHANGES / IDEAS

 

ONE LEAGUE combining current Premiership and Championship tracks to compete at Championship level but using Premiership averages and teams built to a 35 limit including at least one NL draft at 7 for each team.

 

RACE NIGHTS to suit each track. If Belle Vue want Friday's and Swindon Thursday etc then fine. If riders can't commit to British Speedway as priority (not including their home nation) then don't bother and stay abroad . 

 

FIXED PAY RATES / FEES There appears to be be money owed to riders in each league this year which shows the sport is running at costs far too expensive for the income. They are losing die hard fans and not attracting new customers and at £17-18 an adult for 15 one minute races they are not going to attract the numbers required to increase income and most importantly atmosphere to make it a better nights entertainment. 

 

There is is a weird way speedway clubs pay riders with the home team paying the visiting team a percentage of their wages according to the points they get. The visitors then make up the rest but if they haven't had a home meeting for weeks, they can only do this via private money. So a fixed pay rate, paid on the night should erase these issues and again, if it's not enough for a certain rider, then go find a track abroad where you can get 40 plus meetings and paid on the night. 

 

£50 a start - £50 a point means there is £500 on offer each race (£550 inc BP) gives you a wage bill of £7,500 a meeting (plus BP).

 

£10 Adult - £6 Concession - £1 Age 11-16 means you would need a crowd of 750 Adults to ensure the wage bill is met for that night (800 inc BP). If a track can't get a crowd of 750 for a meeting on their chosen race night at these prices then they are obviously in no fit state to ride at any level. Any extra income a track gets with a larger crowd can be used how they see fit, either meeting costs incurred or towards rent and expenses etc. However sponsorship money should be gained to meet running costs and stadiums that are rented also take the income off bars and food outlets. 

 

You our are not going to attract people at current rates. A young married couple come to the speedway after watching the GP the previous week. £36 for two adults, two kids at 12 and 9 costs just £1 and a programme a further £3. Then the kids want an ice cream, some chips and they all have a couple of drinks. You are now looking at roughly £70 paid out to stand on a grass bank or on old concrete terraces and watch fifteen one minutes races often with a large gap in between due to track grading or so many restarts due to movement at the tapes.

 

AVERAGES - Foreign riders come in on an assessed average and should keep that average until he reaches that level. If he has come in on a 6.00 average but is achieving 3.74 then any meeting he misses, his club can only use a guest or RR based on his real average of 3.74. If that track wants to bring him back next year then it will be on 6.00 but will they want a rider than scores three or four

 

WHAT THIS GIVES YOU

VARIETY - Not the same teams over and over again

WEEKLY - With 18-20 tracks, plus Cup matches you are looking at 22 meetings on average giving weekly meetings and not one every three weeks and then two in a week to catch up.

TEAM - The seven riders you have are YOUR riders not also riding elsewhere

YOUNG RIDERS - Using Premiership averages and seven riders to a limit of 35 most will need a 2.00 rider at number seven. These are draft riders and as teams are at a Championship level then Redcar, Workington etc won't be looking at having to get in better riders but teams like Belle Vue, Wolves and Swindon going to their levels. This will create more spaces for riders to move up into as most if not all reserves will be British riders.

ATMOSPHERE increases with the more people there. Attracting new fans at these rates should be much easier and hopefully local pubs, clubs or associations will get involved and make it a more regular night out. Colleges, large companies, military bases etc can be approached to hopefully double the current levels

 

 

OVERALL it's making British Speedway more affordable on both sides and building from a solid new foundation. It gives tracks their required race night and more opportunities for British riders.

 

MAKE THE AGM PUBLIC AND LISTEN TO THE FANS .... May even make a few bob holding the Speedway weekend and without major changes it will be last out please turn off the lights

 

How can you build teams to a 35 average, it's not workable. Simple maths will tell you that if you build a team to 35, at the end of the first season most teams averages will add up to around 40 - 45

[Starman2006]

3 minutes ago, therefused said:

what?

Sorry, read it again, you might get the picture..

[tellboy]

24 minutes ago, Starman2006 said:

Sorry, read it again, you might get the picture..

It's very hard to get your picture on ocassions.

[ch958]

54 minutes ago, Call me wolfie said:

How can you build teams to a 35 average, it's not workable. Simple maths will tell you that if you build a team to 35, at the end of the first season most teams averages will add up to around 40 - 45

not this again

[Danny Connor]

To be honest. if it wasn't for the 1 over 8 rule then this years agm wasn't really that far out. Im anti 1 league because it means the talent that want to ride here are too diluted . its diluted now but further would really be a shame. I would limit double ups to 2 per team max. and weaken the 2nd league. if the Championship teams don't like that then put up or step up! the dropping pf the draft in the 2nd tier was a poor move.

 

with the fixed race nights last year we let the tail wag the dog a bit. but still what did come out was progress. 

 

its not all as bad as it seems. its just getting people off their arses into stadiums. but thats a modern day problem with a lot of activities. not just speedway. I've been entertained this season at lynn. crowds are pretty consistent too and thats even when it ran against the england football. 

 

your never going to get big crowds weekly though. time has moved on. big events will attract. but weekly domestic won't change unless its something for nothing pricing

[STEVEHOLS54]

Excellent post fr0m INCOGNITO and maybe he should email it to the BSPA office (address on SGB site) so that at least the idea is logged internally should they be willing to listen to any outside influences not just their own interests.

I don't agree with every point in the post but a lot I do and it provides ideas and food for thought. I think £15 per adult under 65 is well worth a fix of Speedway and we have to remember that we do have quite an advanced aged hard core of support who come under concessions for over 65 anyway who would get a (to be agreed) discount. Maybe reduce the programme price a bit so that people can decide if they want one or not.

I don't think we should totally alienate clubs who want to sign the odd class rider as that should be reflected in the team points total. Personally I would go above 35 BUT maybe allow up to 2 N/L riders per team each on 2 points av per rider for say those 21 or under. Again just knocking ideas around.

For me and as aired I think on the Rye Forum, we need to get a mix of (and taking Lakeside as an example) Good experience  (Like Morris and Lawson) - good young riders (Like Ellis) - av middle order riders (Like Newman and Morley)- young up and coming riders like Zach W and young up and coming N/L riders like Bowtell who is improving as a result of more meetings over Champ and N/L.

Do NOT allow any club to sign ANY rider until the BSPA agree on a league format - team points limit - guidelines for what young N/L rider will get as an av and how many per team - and importantly on race nights agreed by ALL Clubs that suits them and not the rest of Europe. If that means many of these so called top guys and POLES/Swedes/Danes etc don't want to come back, and even some Aussies if they prefer not to, then so be it. I think you will find that at least some would still prefer to ride here if not all but that is for the teams/promotions of each side to agree based on the BSPA guidelines on team points limits and what each team can afford. Remember too strong at the top means 2 N/L riders at the bottom. We all know how weak reserves can bite you on the backside even if some form of grading is introduced to partly protect some of their rides (which I would also introduce).

I think we have to get away from each team being equal. In these days of modern sports. There will always be some teams stronger than others and for example take the team local to me (25 mins drive) at Lakeside. If I had the chance to say see Poole ride there with the odd decent rider like say Woryna or Kurtz or even Holder (Jack or Chris) then I would welcome it as also a chance to partly level out the Lakeside home track advantage. By the way I say the odd decent rider not all 4 of them in the same team necessarily 

Again we can debate it forever but plenty of sensible ideas already and a good and well thought out post to kick off the discussion.

[Fromafar]

9 minutes ago, Danny Connor said:

To be honest. if it wasn't for the 1 over 8 rule then this years agm wasn't really that far out. Im anti 1 league because it means the talent that want to ride here are too diluted . its diluted now but further would really be a shame. I would limit double ups to 2 per team max. and weaken the 2nd league. if the Championship teams don't like that then put up or step up! the dropping pf the draft in the 2nd tier was a poor move.

 

with the fixed race nights last year we let the tail wag the dog a bit. but still what did come out was progress. 

 

its not all as bad as it seems. its just getting people off their arses into stadiums. but thats a modern day problem with a lot of activities. not just speedway. I've been entertained this season at lynn. crowds are pretty consistent too and thats even when it ran against the england football. 

 

your never going to get big crowds weekly though. time has moved on. big events will attract. but weekly domestic won't change unless its something for nothing pricing

Fixed race nights last year? Have you missed out a comma .

[STEVEHOLS54]

2 hours ago, Starman2006 said:

I dont like your idea of building to a 35 limit, you are way off there. Who the hell you going to get. 7 juniors ?

I don't agree with  35 points either (see my latest post). However INGOGNITO's post is well thought out and provides plenty of sensible content.

I am sure Speedway in one big league could live with a higher than 35 limit if they also introduce say N/L under 21's at 2 points per rider and say up to 2 per team but at least one per side as a minimum.

Let the sides themselves then decide if they want to go top heavy on points or maybe strength in depth like say Lakeside have this season. Individual clubs personal finances would dictate what they can and cant afford but let's not kill the entertainment value totally but at the same time make the sport more financially viable for the majority and not the odd minority.

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

A 35 point limit for 1 big league would be too high

Thats the equivalent of 45.5 at this years Championship level conversions

If the 'big boys' were being left out and 15-20 NL riders brought in then it would need to be 30ish Premiership equivalent 39 current Champinship