27•06•18 - Premiership - Rye House v Swindon

[BWitcher]

4 minutes ago, MattK said:

How are riders supposed to make a living if you cut their number of meetings by 50%?

There in lies the problem!

It's really not that long ago riders weren't expecting to make a living out of speedway.

Wolves all conquering 1996 side James Grieves and Stewart McDonald had jobs outside of speedway and pretty sure Craig Taylor did too.

[winstoncigar]

12 minutes ago, MattK said:

How are riders supposed to make a living if you cut their number of meetings by 50%?

Who is supposed to give these riders a living? It can only come from paying customers, sponsors or Promoters own pockets.

 

[Rayleigh]

13 minutes ago, MattK said:

How are riders supposed to make a living if you cut their number of meetings by 50%?

I remember following Bob Garrad up the M11 and he had his bike tethered to the boot of his of car with the front wheel inside and he worked full time in Maldon. Oh, for those who do not know who Bob Garrad is, well he has ridden the most matches and scored the most points for Rye House EVER.

[MattK]

15 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

There in lies the problem!

It's really not that long ago riders weren't expecting to make a living out of speedway.

Wolves all conquering 1996 side James Grieves and Stewart McDonald had jobs outside of speedway and pretty sure Craig Taylor did too.

Which is fine, as long as people are prepared for speedway to be a semi-professional sport. People complain that the British leagues are amateur enough as it is.

For me, the continual dumbing down on the product is the single biggest reason for the sport's decline in this country.

[Fromafar]

15 minutes ago, MattK said:

Which is fine, as long as people are prepared for speedway to be a semi-professional sport. People complain that the British leagues are amateur enough as it is.

For me, the continual dumbing down on the product is the single biggest reason for the sport's decline in this country.

Your last paragraph is correct,unfortunately it gone that far downhill regarding status in World terms it's going to be a mountain to climb to get it back to that level and the fans are just not there in sufficient numbers these days.

 

 

 

[MattK]

3 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

Your last paragraph is correct,unfortunately it gone that far downhill regarding status in World terms it's going to be a mountain to climb to get it back to that level and the fans are just not there in sufficient numbers these days.

It's Catch 22 though. The weaker it gets, the more fans are lost and so on. The proposals above think that significantly weakening the product will somehow stem the tide of fan losses. This goes against all the evidence from the last 10 years.

For me, to take the sport forward you first need to stop weakening the product and then get on and promote it.

[BWitcher]

43 minutes ago, MattK said:

Which is fine, as long as people are prepared for speedway to be a semi-professional sport. People complain that the British leagues are amateur enough as it is.

For me, the continual dumbing down on the product is the single biggest reason for the sport's decline in this country.

I agree entirely with regards to the dumbing down, but not so sure the two things correlate.

 

 

[Fromafar]

15 minutes ago, MattK said:

It's Catch 22 though. The weaker it gets, the more fans are lost and so on. The proposals above think that significantly weakening the product will somehow stem the tide of fan losses. This goes against all the evidence from the last 10 years.

For me, to take the sport forward you first need to stop weakening the product and then get on and promote it.

Do today's Promotions have the finance behind them to get the sport back to what it needs to be,most are consortiums of ex fans that rely on Sponsers for revenue and are struggling to balance the books with the riders demands these days IMO .

[MattK]

1 minute ago, BWitcher said:

I agree entirely with regards to the dumbing down, but not so sure the two things correlate.

 

 

I can only go on my personal experience, but when Leigh Adams retired from Swindon there was a noticeable drop in crowd number the following season, which Swindon has never recovered from. Of course, there are other issues at Swindon (no promotion, terrible track, derelict stadium etc.) but for me, there was clear correlation between those two events.

[MattK]

2 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

Do today's Promotions have the finance behind them to get the sport back to what it needs to be,most are consortiums of ex fans that rely on Sponsers for revenue and are struggling to balance the books with the riders demands these days IMO .

Again, it's Catch 22. If you do not promote your business (which costs money) you cannot expect that customers will miraculously appear waiting to give you their cash.

It would be interesting to know if a Premiership #1 today gets paid more than an Elite League #1 from 2008? I'd imagine the pay scales are largely similar. The reason clubs are struggling to balance the books is not because of rider's demands, but because of falling revenues.

Now, of course, you can attempt to balance the books by accepting falling revenues and cutting costs accordingly, but this will inevitably lead to oblivion.

[Haza]

53 minutes ago, MattK said:

Which is fine, as long as people are prepared for speedway to be a semi-professional sport. People complain that the British leagues are amateur enough as it is.

For me, the continual dumbing down on the product is the single biggest reason for the sport's decline in this country.

So what would you sooner have a semi pro league or no league? because that’s the way things are heading 

[MattK]

Just now, Haza said:

So what would you sooner have a semi pro league or no league? because that’s the way things are heading 

A semi-pro league would get you to no league faster than the current trajectory.

[Najjer]

55 minutes ago, MattK said:

Which is fine, as long as people are prepared for speedway to be a semi-professional sport. People complain that the British leagues are amateur enough as it is.

For me, the continual dumbing down on the product is the single biggest reason for the sport's decline in this country.

100% spot on.

All this nonsense about there being enough riders for 1 big league too, what happens when say at least 10 riders say "I can't make it pay, I'll just go and do a 9-5 job instead as it pays better" because it gets watered down so much.....

[wealdstone]

Have we been told the proper reason yet?

[ch958]

to get the "big names" back would require funding to an alrming degree. It might pay dividends, it might not pay dividends, therefore it is a gamble. There isn't a promoter around who would take that risk. I'm afraid the only option is what some describe as dilution but others would see as stable teams with roughly the same 7 blokes every week that they can support. Unless someone has a third way. But mark my words, if it involves investment of cash up front it will not happen.

[cityrebel]

No quotes or statements from anyone, even Rosco has nothing to say from the Swindon side. I've no doubt the powers that be have put a gagging order on things, whilst they try to sort the situation out.

[frigbo]

25 minutes ago, MattK said:

A semi-pro league would get you to no league faster than the current trajectory.

It's simple economics though surely?

 

You can't spend out more than come in - too many tracks are doing that right now.

if substantial funding which tracks don't have is needed drive up incomings,  the only option to stay afloat is to minimise outgoings.

Personally, I think we're at a stage where not enough new people think speedway is anything but dull (which let's be honest most of the time it is) and as its hardcore support dies off there are insufficient new people to jutify the spend on massive promotional costs.

As a fan of 40+ years, the reasons i no longer go are purely down to the lack of credibility as a team sport. I want to support Swindon, not some random selection of seven mercenaries each week who will prostitute their services to whoever wants them next. For me some of the best seasons in relatively recent times were the 2000-2003 seasons in the lower league. We had continuity,  regular meetings,  full away teams and a Swindon side that gave a toss - nothing to do with it being second division.

 

 

Edited June 27, 2018 by frigbo

[STEVEHOLS54]

Its is now 3.15 p.m and nothing has come out of the BSPA or BMR Promotion about why/what is going on to supplement the "Unforseen circumstances".

One would have thought that if it was a track condition issue or airfence or some issue with the stadium, then it would have been easy to come out with something to at least allay the fans and speedway supporters in general's fears of what may be going on at RH.

The ongoing silence just heightens fears of what many think may be happening at Rye.

Maybe something will break shortly, but if it is what many are starting to fear then perhaps the BSPA are working with BMR in the preperation of some form of formal statement to be circulated for which one can understand the lack of news appearing. Anything that revolves around some of the rumours circulating will not only have a profound affect on what happens this season regarding results and matches so far but on British Speedway in general.

Again a lot is just speculation and we all hope that the position is not a terminal one, but the longer this goes on the more it increases the fears that the worse may be upon us.

Fingers crossed it isn't.

[cityrebel]

As a rye regular, I can confirm that the rumours have been circulating since the first home meeting of the season.

[STEVEHOLS54]

6 minutes ago, frigbo said:

It's simple economics though surely?

 

You can't spend out more than come in - too many tracks are doing that right now.

if substantial funding which tracks don't have is needed drive up incomings,  the only option to stay afloat is to minimise outgoings.

Personally, I think we're at a stage where not enough new people think speedway is anything but dull (which let's be honest most of the time it is) and as its hardcore support dies off there are insufficient new people to jutify the spend on massive promotional costs.

As a fan of 40+ years, the reasons i no longer go are purely down to the lack of credibility as a team sport. I want to support Swindon, not some random selection of seven mercenaries each week who will prostitute their services to whoever wants them next. For me some of the best seasons in relatively recent times were the 2000-2003 seasons in the lower league. We had continuity,  regular meetings,  full away teams and Swindon side that gave a toss - nothing to do with it being second division.

 

 

I am similar to you Fribo. A fan since 1970/71 and have seen several teams/tracks I supported go to the wall over the years. Hackney which at the time was my local track for some years - West Ham - Wimbledon - White City (Where 700/1000 people would get completely lost in such a big stadium - a strange atmosphere that was).

For a while now I have been advocating having one big league (Maybe with some regionalisation and then play offs between a top ??? - or even a home/away between each team and the play offs same as Prem/Champ) does now. I think we could use the NL more as feel there may be plenty of riders willing to double up if their could be some form of race grading so these N/L guys come up against riders of similar calibre but also get a little exposure to riding against more expereinced or better class riders so they can learn without getting hammered in every race.

One only has to look at the poor stadiums and facilities of many teams now to see that the sport in Prem for example (except for the NSS at BV) is in potentially terminal decline as it stands.

As for some of these top riders ??. Many don't really need UK if they have POL & SWE. When you think about it. Many probably have deals and sponsorship in UK which covers their equip and travelling costs and what they earn from the club itself probably contributes to their other expenses travelling around Europe. For some resident UK like NKI/C.Holder then yes they have a desire to race here as also gives them also a chance to go home during the week. But for many non residents I can't help thinking what they earn just helps them to pay other expenses and better to have something that gives you addl earning than not at all.