4thbender Posted June 18, 2018 Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 Peterborough's qualification to the Championship Shield Semi-Finals on the basis of them being the "best second place" team is completely unfair. Their claim is based solely on their being part of a smaller group, which gives them a mathematical advantage: 9 points from 4 matches gives them an average points-per-match of 2.25. Sheffield, on the other hand, have 13 points from 6 matches, giving them a points per match average of 2.167, but this lower rating is simply because they have been part of a larger group and have ridden more matches. The second-placed team in the Southern Group - regardless of who it was - was always going to have a mathematical advantage over the second-placed teams in the Northern or Borders Groups. Peterborough have a 100% home record, plus a 3-point away victory, giving them a points difference of +10. Sheffield also have a 100% home record, plus a 4-point away win and a points difference of +39. This must surely mean that Sheffield have the better record in the competition. To give the semi-final to Peterborough, based solely on their intrinsic mathematical advantage, is a travesty. Sheffield have the better record and should qualify. The ruling is shambolic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted June 18, 2018 Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, 4thbender said: Peterborough's qualification to the Championship Shield Semi-Finals on the basis of them being the "best second place" team is completely unfair. Their claim is based solely on their being part of a smaller group, which gives them a mathematical advantage: 9 points from 4 matches gives them an average points-per-match of 2.25. Sheffield, on the other hand, have 13 points from 6 matches, giving them a points per match average of 2.167, but this lower rating is simply because they have been part of a larger group and have ridden more matches. The second-placed team in the Southern Group - regardless of who it was - was always going to have a mathematical advantage over the second-placed teams in the Northern or Borders Groups. Peterborough have a 100% home record, plus a 3-point away victory, giving them a points difference of +10. Sheffield also have a 100% home record, plus a 4-point away win and a points difference of +39. This must surely mean that Sheffield have the better record in the competition. To give the semi-final to Peterborough, based solely on their intrinsic mathematical advantage, is a travesty. Sheffield have the better record and should qualify. The ruling is shambolic. That's Speedway for you,nothing simple. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New era Panthers Posted June 18, 2018 Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 13 minutes ago, 4thbender said: Peterborough's qualification to the Championship Shield Semi-Finals on the basis of them being the "best second place" team is completely unfair. Their claim is based solely on their being part of a smaller group, which gives them a mathematical advantage: 9 points from 4 matches gives them an average points-per-match of 2.25. Sheffield, on the other hand, have 13 points from 6 matches, giving them a points per match average of 2.167, but this lower rating is simply because they have been part of a larger group and have ridden more matches. The second-placed team in the Southern Group - regardless of who it was - was always going to have a mathematical advantage over the second-placed teams in the Northern or Borders Groups. Peterborough have a 100% home record, plus a 3-point away victory, giving them a points difference of +10. Sheffield also have a 100% home record, plus a 4-point away win and a points difference of +39. This must surely mean that Sheffield have the better record in the competition. To give the semi-final to Peterborough, based solely on their intrinsic mathematical advantage, is a travesty. Sheffield have the better record and should qualify. The ruling is shambolic. How come you only mention this now that your team has been knocked out ,no one heard you shouting from the rooftops before all the results unfolded about how wrong and unjust it is on Sheffield , the rules were set before the competition started and have to be adhered to but for what it is worth it would have bee better with 2 groups with winners and runners up to the semi's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted June 18, 2018 Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 Come on this is Speedway! World Championships have been decided on rock, paper, scissors before now... Get over it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thbender Posted June 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 17 minutes ago, New era Panthers said: How come you only mention this now that your team has been knocked out ,no one heard you shouting from the rooftops before all the results unfolded about how wrong and unjust it is on Sheffield , the rules were set before the competition started and have to be adhered to but for what it is worth it would have bee better with 2 groups with winners and runners up to the semi's. Where is the rule which says that the second-placed team with an inferior record of performance will qualify? I haven't noticed any such rule, but if I had I would have mentioned it earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPanther Posted June 18, 2018 Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 1 minute ago, 4thbender said: Where is the rule which says that the second-placed team with an inferior record of performance will qualify? I haven't noticed any such rule, but if I had I would have mentioned it earlier. I take it maths is not your strong point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lucan Posted June 18, 2018 Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 23 minutes ago, New era Panthers said: How come you only mention this now that your team has been knocked out ,no one heard you shouting from the rooftops before all the results unfolded about how wrong and unjust it is on Sheffield , the rules were set before the competition started and have to be adhered to but for what it is worth it would have bee better with 2 groups with winners and runners up to the semi's. To be fair, 4thbender can only grumble about the outcome when all the results are in and the mathematics takes over, it's been decided on pts difference per no of matches so with Peterborough not finishing til yesterday you couldn't have known how that would affect the qualification!! Agreed about your last paragraph, two groups would have been better and given a few more meetings!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thbender Posted June 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 1 minute ago, blupanther said: I take it maths is not your strong point When I went to school +4 would always trump +3, and +39 would always trump +10. Unless my maths teacher was a complete dumbo I don't believe my maths to be that bad actually! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthegearbutnaeidea Posted June 18, 2018 Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, 4thbender said: When I went to school +4 would always trump +3, and +39 would always trump +10. Unless my maths teacher was a complete dumbo I don't believe my maths to be that bad actually! Yes and 2.25 trumps 2.167 and that’s the one that matters so stop acting like such a child. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New era Panthers Posted June 18, 2018 Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, allthegearbutnaeidea said: Yes and 2.25 trumps 2.167 and that’s the one that matters so stop acting like such a child. Thank you I didn't want to have to say it myself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thbender Posted June 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, allthegearbutnaeidea said: Yes and 2.25 trumps 2.167 and that’s the one that matters so stop acting like such a child. Who says it's the one that matters? Have you just made that rule up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted June 18, 2018 Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 7 minutes ago, 4thbender said: When I went to school +4 would always trump +3, and +39 would always trump +10. Unless my maths teacher was a complete dumbo I don't believe my maths to be that bad actually! You fail to take any account for the 2 defeats that Sheffield had whilst Peterborough only had 1 Pboro won half their away meetings and Sheff a third - when I went to school a half was larger than a third Even 1 losing point in either of those wouldve given the Tigers a better match point average and they didnt manage it You talk of mathmatical advantage of a smaller group when the larger group had the advantage of an extra chance to gain an all important losing point That team didnt even have to win or draw to gain an advantage only lose by less! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thbender Posted June 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 1 minute ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said: You fail to take any account for the 2 defeats that Sheffield had whilst Peterborough only had 1 Pboro won half their away meetings and Sheff a third - when I went to school a half was larger than a third Even 1 losing point in either of those wouldve given the Tigers a better match point average and they didnt manage it You talk of mathmatical advantage of a smaller group when the larger group had the advantage of an extra chance to gain an all important losing point That team didnt even have to win or draw to gain an advantage only lose by less! Whichever way you cut it, Sheffield have the better results performance overall: Sheffield have 13 points compared to Peterborough's 9 Sheffield have +4 "away points won minus home points lost" compared to Peterborough's +3 Sheffield have +39 points difference compared to Peterborough's +10 How could anyone with any sense suggest that Peterborough's is the better performance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted June 18, 2018 Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 13 minutes ago, 4thbender said: Whichever way you cut it, Sheffield have the better results performance overall: Sheffield have 13 points compared to Peterborough's 9 Sheffield have +4 "away points won minus home points lost" compared to Peterborough's +3 Sheffield have +39 points difference compared to Peterborough's +10 How could anyone with any sense suggest that Peterborough's is the better performance? You yet again ignore the defeats Pboro 3 pts per home meeting Sheffeiled 3 pts per home meeting Identical records Pboro 3 pts from 2 away ave 1.5 Sheff 4 pts from 3 away ave 1.33° Now which is the better away record?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thbender Posted June 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 7 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said: You yet again ignore the defeats Pboro 3 pts per home meeting Sheffeiled 3 pts per home meeting Identical records Pboro 3 pts from 2 away ave 1.5 Sheff 4 pts from 3 away ave 1.33° Now which is the better away record?? This is precisely the point that proves my argument: the team taking part in fewer matches is always going to have an unfair mathematical advantage. Teams should be judged on the results of matches that HAVE taken place and NOT the averages skewed by the number of matches that HAVEN'T taken place! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New era Panthers Posted June 18, 2018 Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 29 minutes ago, 4thbender said: Whichever way you cut it, Sheffield have the better results performance overall: Sheffield have 13 points compared to Peterborough's 9 Sheffield have +4 "away points won minus home points lost" compared to Peterborough's +3 Sheffield have +39 points difference compared to Peterborough's +10 How could anyone with any sense suggest that Peterborough's is the better performance? You could also say teams from the southern group were denied the chance to have equal amount of matches to be able to compete with the other 2 groups and to say all this is news to you about the percentages used to calculate best second place is utter nonsense , it been banded about on here 5/6 weeks but you never heard about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thbender Posted June 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, New era Panthers said: it been banded about on here 5/6 weeks but you never heard about it. Where? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New era Panthers Posted June 18, 2018 Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, 4thbender said: This is precisely the point that proves my argument: the team taking part in fewer matches is always going to have an unfair mathematical advantage. Teams should be judged on the results of matches that HAVE taken place and NOT the averages skewed by the number of matches that HAVEN'T taken place! I would suggest you move on you are going to get precisely nowhere , best thing for you to do is have a word with your promoter who is part of the management committee and explain you grievance as they are the ones who suggest and make the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodger Blue Posted June 18, 2018 Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 13 minutes ago, 4thbender said: This is precisely the point that proves my argument: the team taking part in fewer matches is always going to have an unfair mathematical advantage. Teams should be judged on the results of matches that HAVE taken place and NOT the averages skewed by the number of matches that HAVEN'T taken place! But the away matches HAVE taken place ..... me thinks you are tying yourself in knots!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thbender Posted June 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2018 Just now, New era Panthers said: I would suggest you move on you are going to get precisely nowhere , best thing for you to do is have a word with your promoter who is part of the management committee and explain you grievance as they are the ones who suggest and make the rules. Already have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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