Big Al Posted June 19, 2018 Report Share Posted June 19, 2018 103 riders across the PL and EL at the moment, give or take a couple. If BSPA were to write now to each of them, stating "Our intention is that from 2020 the UK will run meetings only on Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays. Occasionally Mondays will be used, but Tuesdays and Wednesdays will be set aside for those riders who wish to ride in Sweden and Denmark. Therefore UK clubs will not be able to engage the services of any rider who has contractual commitments to a Polish club, which could prevent him from fulfilling UK commitments. Please let us know, by return, if you would be prepared to remain competing in the UK under those conditions." How many of the 103 would say yes. And what assurances would they need? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Flag Posted June 19, 2018 Report Share Posted June 19, 2018 9 minutes ago, Big Al said: 103 riders across the PL and EL at the moment, give or take a couple. If BSPA were to write now to each of them, stating "Our intention is that from 2020 the UK will run meetings only on Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays. Occasionally Mondays will be used, but Tuesdays and Wednesdays will be set aside for those riders who wish to ride in Sweden and Denmark. Therefore UK clubs will not be able to engage the services of any rider who has contractual commitments to a Polish club, which could prevent him from fulfilling UK commitments. Please let us know, by return, if you would be prepared to remain competing in the UK under those conditions." How many of the 103 would say yes. And what assurances would they need? Well that rules Wolves out due to lack of stadium availability, but hey ho at least your happy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted June 19, 2018 Report Share Posted June 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Red Flag said: Well that rules Wolves out due to lack of stadium availability, but hey ho at least your happy You must have missed "occasionally Mondays will be used" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted June 19, 2018 Report Share Posted June 19, 2018 2 hours ago, Big Al said: 103 riders across the PL and EL at the moment, give or take a couple. If BSPA were to write now to each of them, stating "Our intention is that from 2020 the UK will run meetings only on Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays. Occasionally Mondays will be used, but Tuesdays and Wednesdays will be set aside for those riders who wish to ride in Sweden and Denmark. Therefore UK clubs will not be able to engage the services of any rider who has contractual commitments to a Polish club, which could prevent him from fulfilling UK commitments. Please let us know, by return, if you would be prepared to remain competing in the UK under those conditions." How many of the 103 would say yes. And what assurances would they need? What about riders who double up in both leagues ( which is most of them ) back to teams packed full of guests again ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Flag Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 10 hours ago, Big Al said: You must have missed "occasionally Mondays will be used" Occasionall Mondays are not much good, we would need every Monday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 On 6/14/2018 at 11:20 PM, mickthemuppet said: why would any team would want to race on a Monday I know this could be quite simple but why do the clubs not say what nights they want to race on King's Lynn will do better on a Monday than on a Weds ( because of Danish &others away in Denmark ). Getting 800 to nearly 1,000 running against the World Cup England game was a reasonable result. I think a lot of fans -most of all want to see a full KL team ride. I certainly do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 15 hours ago, Big Al said: 103 riders across the PL and EL at the moment, give or take a couple. If BSPA were to write now to each of them, stating "Our intention is that from 2020 the UK will run meetings only on Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays. Occasionally Mondays will be used, but Tuesdays and Wednesdays will be set aside for those riders who wish to ride in Sweden and Denmark. Therefore UK clubs will not be able to engage the services of any rider who has contractual commitments to a Polish club, which could prevent him from fulfilling UK commitments. Please let us know, by return, if you would be prepared to remain competing in the UK under those conditions." How many of the 103 would say yes. And what assurances would they need? I half suspected this would get "local" responses. Never mind your own club to start with, it's a hypothetical question. There have been some voices on BSF calling for the UK to ditch the International Leagues agreement and just run on race nights that suit the UK best instead. Many of those are highly anti-Mondays although if a club wanted/needed to run on Monday well why not if it decided that's best for them. So to start with, how many riders would the UK league be left with, if the UK were to declare UDI and for the most part go head to head with Poland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamish McRaker Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 I think there would be about 80 riders from the current teams lists who would take the "no Poland" pledge, as long as they had assurances of sufficient UK matches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 18 hours ago, Big Al said: 103 riders across the PL and EL at the moment, give or take a couple. If BSPA were to write now to each of them, stating "Our intention is that from 2020 the UK will run meetings only on Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays. Occasionally Mondays will be used, but Tuesdays and Wednesdays will be set aside for those riders who wish to ride in Sweden and Denmark. Therefore UK clubs will not be able to engage the services of any rider who has contractual commitments to a Polish club, which could prevent him from fulfilling UK commitments. Please let us know, by return, if you would be prepared to remain competing in the UK under those conditions." How many of the 103 would say yes. And what assurances would they need? Saying "no Poland" is too simplistic. There are many other FIM events held at weekends. A simple search turns up: GP: 10 Saturdays GP Challenge: 2 Saturdays SoN/SWC: 1/2 Saturday(s) World U21: 2 Fridays, 1 Saturday, 1 Sunday Team U21: 2 Saturdays I make that 20 weekends disrupted by a FIM event, no taking into account practice on the night before. On top of that, you have various SEC, Euro and other events. I'm not saying it couldn't be achieved with sensible fixture planning, but this doesn't happen at the moment with fewer weekend fixtures, so I don't have a lot of confidence clashed could be avoided if the British leagues were racing primarily at weekends. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 Close down all tracks for a couple of years and SO many people will protest and sign petitions, join street marches demanding the return of speedway racing in the UK. The national Press and the media will swarm all over it and every track can then re-open to bumper crowds. In the No Racing Era many of the problems of today could be solved with bright ideas for holding the hordes of new fans ( standardised bikes, crisply run meetings etc ). Now it's just an old habit for many, but in a bright New World after the Great Quietness people would really Want To Come. And riders & Promoters would realise just how important fans really are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 4 hours ago, MattK said: Saying "no Poland" is too simplistic. There are many other FIM events held at weekends. A simple search turns up: GP: 10 Saturdays GP Challenge: 2 Saturdays SoN/SWC: 1/2 Saturday(s) World U21: 2 Fridays, 1 Saturday, 1 Sunday Team U21: 2 Saturdays I make that 20 weekends disrupted by a FIM event, no taking into account practice on the night before. On top of that, you have various SEC, Euro and other events. I'm not saying it couldn't be achieved with sensible fixture planning, but this doesn't happen at the moment with fewer weekend fixtures, so I don't have a lot of confidence clashed could be avoided if the British leagues were racing primarily at weekends. good points but unlikely that anyone involved in gp would not also be on Polish contracts. I think many would prefer guaranteed meetings in the UK than be part of a squad in Poland and no guarantees. Big decisions need to be made and they will not be popular 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) 28 minutes ago, ch958 said: good points but unlikely that anyone involved in gp would not also be on Polish contracts. I think many would prefer guaranteed meetings in the UK than be part of a squad in Poland and no guarantees. Big decisions need to be made and they will not be popular And the deal particularly for those who ride in Poland's second div and below.. Ride maybe 16 times in Poland earning around £5k a pop. Meaning you earn £80k.. (But you may get canned after two or even one poor meeting).. Or.. D/U (with no fixture clashes) and ride at least four times a week over here earning circa £1500 a night on average in both divisions.. Around 60 meetings will earn you £90k... (But you must be available for every match). Time to get radical and look after No1.. Cannot compete with Poland so why bother? Ride on any night that brings each individual business their best income.. Enough riders would make themselves 100% available I am sure.. Maybe not all British either as I am sure plenty of Swedes, Danes, Germans, Italians, French, Aussies, Czechs, and Americans of a decent standard would be interested.. Edited June 20, 2018 by mikebv 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamish McRaker Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 6 hours ago, MattK said: Saying "no Poland" is too simplistic. There are many other FIM events held at weekends. A simple search turns up: GP: 10 Saturdays GP Challenge: 2 Saturdays SoN/SWC: 1/2 Saturday(s) World U21: 2 Fridays, 1 Saturday, 1 Sunday Team U21: 2 Saturdays I make that 20 weekends disrupted by a FIM event, no taking into account practice on the night before. On top of that, you have various SEC, Euro and other events. I'm not saying it couldn't be achieved with sensible fixture planning, but this doesn't happen at the moment with fewer weekend fixtures, so I don't have a lot of confidence clashed could be avoided if the British leagues were racing primarily at weekends. Out of the 80 who I guessed as being probables, not many would be involved in those meetings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 41 minutes ago, mikebv said: And the deal particularly for those who ride in Poland's second div and below.. Ride maybe 16 times in Poland earning around £5k a pop. Meaning you earn £80k.. (But you may get canned after two or even one poor meeting).. Or.. D/U (with no fixture clashes) and ride at least four times a week over here earning circa £1500 a night on average in both divisions.. Around 60 meetings will earn you £90k... (But you must be available for every match). Time to get radical and look after No1.. Cannot compete with Poland so why bother? Ride on any night that brings each individual business their best income.. Enough riders would make themselves 100% available I am sure.. Maybe not all British either as I am sure plenty of Swedes, Danes, Germans, Italians, French, Aussies, Czechs, and Americans of a decent standard would be interested.. You continually talk about credibility, yet if you required commitment to Britain you end up with a Premiership where the overarching majority of riders would double down to the Championship. How is that any more credible than what is on offer today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 10 minutes ago, Hamish McRaker said: Out of the 80 who I guessed as being probables, not many would be involved in those meetings 6 or ten each year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk127 Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 The sad thing is that despite the many valid points for and against the fixed race nights raised herein and in particular how the sport could be improved no one who is in charge of speedway in the UK is listening or gives a fig and the riders tend to look after themselves. Supporters, fans, followers, all area irrelevant, the only thing management and riders are interested in is the entrance fee paid and the income from other areas such as food, car park, programmes etc. that go towards paying over inflated wages and money spent on bikes etc. The sooner the two guilty culprits realise that funds/followers simply do not generate sufficient income to make their demands viable. Why else are so many clubs in dire financial straits and so few new potential riders of the right quality and skills coming through the ranks. A radicle change is required but it will not happen. At the moment you have fewer meetings and lack of continuity with some clubs racing at home once every three weeks and this is another nail in the coffin. I doubt that any of the current encumbents at the BSPA are capable of pulling the preferable rabbit out of the hat and fewer clubs will be coming to the tapes in 2019. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 44 minutes ago, MattK said: You continually talk about credibility, yet if you required commitment to Britain you end up with a Premiership where the overarching majority of riders would double down to the Championship. How is that any more credible than what is on offer today? Riders race all over Europe and the World to maximise their income so having two or three teams in Britain wouldn't look 'strange'.. That is not to say it shouldn't be the overall long term aim to have one man/one team.. The lads who ride for BV can ride for any other team in Britain who are not in their league if they so wish for me.. 30 matches at £1500 a night simply won't be enough to justify the cost of racing for many so D/U will unfortunately be necessary (maybe until 30 matches pays £3000 a night?)... There can still be clear demarcation between Leagues though, eg a No1 in the 2nd tier shouldn't also be a No1 in the top tier. And team strengths can facilitate that.. Bottom line is that there isn't enough riders of the right calibre to run so many teams without DU at present, but that should be the overall aim... A short term fix to improve the long term situation is just something we may need to accept.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 Best solution I've come across is two equal standard "conferences" of 9 or 10 teams each and they can run their home race nights so as not to clash spread from Thursday to Monday. Doubling up should be plentiful and unconflicting! The two conference winners (however arrived at) meet in a grand final. Would probably mean no Bewley and Lambert for example as they would likely take the "Poland" option along with 20+ others currently in the PL. But better collaboration between UK and Denmark would be desriable in the best interests of both in terms of rider opportunities and development. Helped of course by UK not using Wednesdays!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 On 6/20/2018 at 7:42 PM, MattK said: You continually talk about credibility, yet if you required commitment to Britain you end up with a Premiership where the overarching majority of riders would double down to the Championship. How is that any more credible than what is on offer today? You keep saying the sports not credible because rider's ride in the Premiership and Championship. How is it different from riding all over Europe?? If British Speedway can get the race night's right doubling up/down doesn't discredit the sport at all. There's no rivalry between clubs in each league. Every club and fans have their rider's to support etc. To make a living, at the very least, British rider's should be allowed to race in both the Premiership and Championship. Sweden has doubling up/down without it being discredited by fans, it should be no different here apart from the BSPA/SCB getting it all wrong. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littleze Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 5 man or 6 man teams? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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