BSPA Upset the Poles

[RobMcCaffery]

The Polish speedway website Sportowe Fakty has a report on a row brewing between Britain and Poland regarding Chris Harris' absence from last weekend's match between Pila and Lublin. The report claims that the BSPA refused start permission in Poland for Harris who instead rode in the Glasgow v Edinburgh cup tie. Ironically this was the first match for a while that Pila had selected him.

There are arguments to have him suspended but the story has another, perhaps more worrying aspect. The Poles claim that the international agreement regarding race nights that limit the Premiership to Mondays and Wednesdays (in theory anyway) also apply to the Championship and so Poland have priority on every other night of the week, especially weekends for that league as well! 

Full story here:

https://sportowefakty.wp.pl/zuzel/757719/w-pzm-nie-maja-watpliwosci-harris-powinien-byc-zawieszony-po-kieszeni-tez-dostan

Translation can be made via Google Translate - just copy and paste that url.

https://translate.google.co.uk/

You really are left with the feeling that riders now have to  choose whether to ride in Poland or Britain. It may be possible at the top level but how on earth can Championship sides sign riders who will be taken by Polish speedway whenever they feel like it? We are just being pushed further and further into a corner. Money talks and right now it's laughing at British Speedway. 

[The White Knight]

It just confirms what I have thought for a while now. Great Britain is becoming less and less relevant/influential to World Speedway.

A very sad situation, which to me anyway, commenced with the advent of the GPs.

How are the mighty fallen?

[HenryW]

If you have a look at the FIM league calendar, the colour coding does suggest that all 3 Polish leagues have priority on Friday, Saturday and Sunday (except in the event of FIM meetings on Saturdays).

The top 2 British leagues have priority on Monday and Thursday.

I've not got a link to the calendar to hand just now but will add it if I remember.

[RobMcCaffery]

This is where the slot system should not have been agreed. It is potentially crippling to the Championship and it's not exactly doing much good for the Premiership. It's sadly got to become a choice and with the money on offer in Poland we will have to find a way to run without those riders or face perpetual guest rider chaos. 

 

Edited May 30, 2018 by RobMcCaffery

[Hawk127]

Time to stand up to the Poles who seem to want to rule the speedway world. This should be the final straw but cannot see the U.K. authorities doing anything other than roll over and let the Polish clubs treat the U.K. with contempt.

Unlikely to happen but someone ought take the ‘fight’ to them. Change the format in the U.K. to one main league and the NL. Meetings to be run Thursday,Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday (for TV).  Overseas riders permitted except Poles who cannot commit to league racing over here because their association will not allow them to ride on these days. Look towards internationals with the likes of Germany, Latvia, Czech etc. Have two parts to a meeting. The reserves in any team must be NL riders who double up. Squad system if necessary for all clubs. Something needs to be done to defend British Speedway.

 

 

[racers and royals]

Pila were better off with Pawel Laguta who rode really well( Harris was named the previous match and replaced by Laguta)

[iris123]

25 minutes ago, HenryW said:

If you have a look at the FIM league calendar, the colour coding does suggest that all 3 Polish leagues have priority on Friday, Saturday and Sunday (except in the event of FIM meetings on Saturdays).

The top 2 British leagues have priority on Monday and Thursday.

I've not got a link to the calendar to hand just now but will add it if I remember.

This is the way the sport is developing,but wonder if the title is not encompassing enoughDid the BSPA also upset Harris?Riders want to earn as much as possible.Wolbert was complaining about missing P&P for his Swedish team for a German National practice and then not getting picked for the national team nor his Swedish team.

Fans want and the sport needs riders to be identified with a team.The sport has gone too far with riders in 3,4,5 or more teams.When the boot was on the other foot British teams tried a crack down and now are feeling the effects of being reliant on foreign riders.

Sadly I feel the answer (to some problems like lack of training facilities and young riders)doesn’t lie in our hands

[Grachan]

Poland don't have priority on every other day of the week.

As far as I understand it, Poland have priority on Sunday, Britain on Monday, Sweden on Tuesday, Denmark on Wednesday, Britain on Thursday (?). Friday and Saturday, I'm not so sure about, although Grand Prix would presumably have those days.

If managed properly (which it wasn't), I don't see why there is a problem here. In fact, Britain may actually have greater priority than any country - although Poland get the better deal by having Sundays.

If Poland have Sundays as their day, then of course they are going to want priority on that day.

 

[iris123]

3 minutes ago, Grachan said:

Poland don't have priority on every other day of the week.

As far as I understand it, Poland have priority on Sunday, Britain on Monday, Sweden on Tuesday, Denmark on Wednesday, Britain on Thursday (?). Friday and Saturday, I'm not so sure about, although Grand Prix would presumably have those days.

If managed properly (which it wasn't), I don't see why there is a problem here. In fact, Britain may actually have greater priority than any country - although Poland get the better deal by having Sundays.

If Poland have Sundays as their day, then of course they are going to want priority on that day.

 

Exactly.Poorly worded I think on the first point.And it seems to be a way forward and it is only those who haven’t thought things out properly who will be affected.Teething problems at the start are to be expected,at least in speedways case

[racers and royals]

The problem is that more and more riders who ride over here are signing for Nice Polska and div 2 teams. this immediately causes problems because these 2 leagues not only run Sunday`s but run the odd matches on  Friday`s and Saturday`s. Riders who just ride Premiership are not effected - it`s the Championship and doubling up riders such as Klindt, Nick Morris, Lawson,Richie Worrall, Wright,Wells,Ellis and Kerr. Poland do use a squad system but understandingly wan`t to put the best side out especially if they are near the top of the league.

[RobMcCaffery]

I'm quite happy with my wording and note that both criticisms come from two people who I have 'crossed swords' with in the past. Perhaps we should be debating what is a serious problem rather than make playground-style attempts at point-scoring?

Yes the BSPA may have upset Harris as well. I could have written a paragraph or extended sentence as thread title but I follow a basic principle - 'Keep the headline brief'. The rest can be included in the main body. 

I know nothing of Harris' position regarding this nor was it speculated upon in the story. I therefore left this out since there were far wider matters at issue than an individual. 

Whatever the theoretical position of the 'slot system' Britain is already in breach by using Wednesdays and what I considered the most significant part of the story  was Poland claiming that our lower tier also only was allocated the Monday and Wednesday slots.

This is all semantics. Poland are drawing another line in the sand to claim Friday to Sunday running, excepting international weekends, and no doubt in the long term would love to see those either under their (via One Sport?) control or bundled away on nights they don't want. This is not a case of 'teething problems' of a new, acceptable system. Sweden and Denmark have long worked with a one or two night a week allocation. Britain's needs are different due principally to stadium access and ownership and a need for weekly speedway from March to October, not fortnightly for a dozen weeks or so mid-summer. We've lost that and we've lost our way. Our successful years were based on weekends.

We've virtually lost these crucial weekends and this latest Polish muscle-flexing will make that problem far worse. The present PL supporters may be happy to watch 'stars' racing midweek but what we need to re-grow is to recapture the weekends and if that relies on lesser names then fine - I really, really doubt whether the new supporters who we need to attract would even notice their absence. We need to be selling a good night's racing on the right night and regularly. This 'new order' and its 'teething' pains are in direct conflict with this. 

Is that now clear enough for you? I've written enough professionally over the years to accept critique by those who are qualified to so obviously hope to also meet your demanding standards, 

Anyway, apart from having to deal with such inanities I'd suggest that Hawk127 has it exactly right. British speedway is fighting for its future and despite the limitations of the BSPA it doesn't deserve to be treated with the contempt it is now receiving. We have given a huge amount to the sport over 90 years - until recently being the only serious place for riders to earn a full-time living for one or to race at the highest levels of team racing.

Yes those days are over for now but we deserve a bit more than simply being told to "Go sit in the corner we've given you and don't dare to speak". I'd be a lot happier if I could trust the business controlling Polish speedway. I don't. 

A rebuild here is required but I do fear that the scale of rebuild will be too much for many 'supporters' to accept. 

 

 

Edited May 30, 2018 by RobMcCaffery

[iris123]

As an aside,I have posted over the past couple of years how we have been poorly treated at international level with our allocation of slots for GP qualifiers being less than countries like(can’t remember 100%)Italy or Austria,who only have about 5 riders!!!

But when a rider signs a contract the club can expect them to honour that...

[Grachan]

1 minute ago, RobMcCaffery said:

I'm quite happy with my wording and note that both criticisms come from two people who I have 'crossed swords' with in the past. Perhaps we should be debating what is a serious problem rather than make playground-style attempts at point-scoring?

Yes the BSPA may have upset Harris as well. I could have written a paragraph or extended sentence as thread title but I follow a basic principle - 'Keep the headline brief'. The rest can be included in the main body. 

I know nothing of Harris' position regarding this nor was it speculated upon in the story. I therefore left this out since there were far wider matters at issue than an individual. 

Whatever the theoretical position of the 'slot system' Britain is already in breach by using Wednesdays and what I considered the most significant part of the story  was Poland claiming that our lower tier also only was allocated the Monday and Wednesday slot.

This is all semantics. Poland are drawing another line in the sand to claim Friday to Sunday running, excepting international weekends, and no doubt in the long term would love to see those either under their (via One Sport?) control or bundled away on nights they don't want. 

Is that now clear enough for you? I've written enough professionally over the years to accept critique by those who are qualified to so obviously hope to also meet your demanding standards, 

Anyway, apart from having to deal with such inanities I'd suggest that Hawk127 has it exactly right. British speedway is fighting for its future and despite the limitations of the BSPA it doesn't deserve to be treated with the contempt it is now receiving. We have given a huge amount to the sport over 90 years - until recently being the only serious place for riders to earn a full-time living for one or to race at the highest levels of team racing.

Yes those days are over for now but we deserve a bit more than simply being told to "Go sit in the corner we've given you and don't dare to speak". 

A rebuild is required but I do fear that the scale of rebuild will be too much for many 'supporters' to accept. 

 

 

I don't think it is unreasonable for all countries to expect priority be given on the days allotted to them. Obviously this is affecting lower-tier clubs too, but there has to be give and take in all countries. If this is managed sensibly on all sides, then there shouldn't be any issue.

All I pointed out was that Poland do not have priority on all days of the week apart from two. I was correcting something that was factually incorrect.

Nobody is treating anybody with contempt. The speedway world is a lot bigger now. It is natural for Poland to expect their allotted day.

Were a British club to want to use a rider on a Monday and a second division Polish side insisted that the rider ride there instead, then that would be a similar situation and the British club would then feel rightly aggrieved if the rider rode in Poland.

I really wish that the Second Division clubs who want to use international standard riders would move up into the top tier so that we can have a strong top league as the basis for British speedway. Clubs staying down are holding us back in my opinion. Let's make a good, solid First Division again and I'm sure the sport would improve.

 

[RobMcCaffery]

2 minutes ago, iris123 said:

As an aside,I have posted over the past couple of years how we have been poorly treated at international level with our allocation of slots for GP qualifiers being less than countries like(can’t remember 100%)Italy or Austria,who only have about 5 riders!!!

But when a rider signs a contract the club can expect them to honour that...

If the contract demanded that they have priority then yes. On the wider point, he is a British rider and therefore that contract should not be accepted. When we were dominant in world speedway we acknowledged the principle that home federation fixtures took priority, especially with Poland. It would be good to see the same courtesy offered now in return.

Just because a contract is signed it does not make it right. 

 

[ch958]

23 minutes ago, Grachan said:

I don't think it is unreasonable for all countries to expect priority be given on the days allotted to them. Obviously this is affecting lower-tier clubs too, but there has to be give and take in all countries. If this is managed sensibly on all sides, then there shouldn't be any issue.

All I pointed out was that Poland do not have priority on all days of the week apart from two. I was correcting something that was factually incorrect.

Nobody is treating anybody with contempt. The speedway world is a lot bigger now. It is natural for Poland to expect their allotted day.

Were a British club to want to use a rider on a Monday and a second division Polish side insisted that the rider ride there instead, then that would be a similar situation and the British club would then feel rightly aggrieved if the rider rode in Poland.

I really wish that the Second Division clubs who want to use international standard riders would move up into the top tier so that we can have a strong top league as the basis for British speedway. Clubs staying down are holding us back in my opinion. Let's make a good, solid First Division again and I'm sure the sport would improve.

 

and by extension a more manageable/affordable div 2 with fewer non GB riders. Fine by me.

[Daniel Smith]

The thing that seems to be missed is that Harris shouldn't be riding in the Championship anyway. 

I'm ok with British rider's doing both Premiership and Championship but they then shouldn't sign contracts abroad. 

In my opinion, if a British rider signs contracts in Poland they should not be allowed a Championship contract. 

The BSPA should put in place that Championship rider's cannot sign contracts abroad. If contracts are signed abroad they can only participate in the Premiership. 

That would stop rider's being greedy (because that's what it is) and stop the stupidness between each Speedway federation. 

With regards to the Harris situation, Poland are correct and they should have the call on Harris on Sunday fixtures unless Harris is willing to terminate his contract in Poland.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Daniel Smith

[HenryW]

Current FIM calendar with priority details can be found here: https://speedwayekstraliga.pl/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/2018-Amended-International-Speedway-League-Calendar-Updated25.05.2018.pdf

 

[Grachan]

9 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said:

The thing that seems to be missed is that Harris shouldn't be riding in the Championship anyway. 

I'm ok with British rider's doing both Premiership and Championship but they then shouldn't sign contracts abroad. 

In my opinion, if a British rider signs contracts in Poland they should not be allowed a Championship contract. 

The BSPA should put in place that Championship rider's cannot sign contracts abroad. If contracts are signed abroad they can only participate in the Premiership. 

That would stop rider's being greedy (because that's what it is) and stop the stupidness between each Speedway federation. 

With regards to the Harris situation, Poland are correct and they should have the call on Harris on Sunday fixtures unless Harris is willing to terminate his contract in Poland.

I'm not sure it's about greed, as riders are just trying to earn a living.

Other than that, though, I couldn't agree more.

[Grachan]

1 minute ago, HenryW said:

Current FIM calendar with priority details can be found here: https://speedwayekstraliga.pl/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/2018-Amended-International-Speedway-League-Calendar-Updated25.05.2018.pdf

 

Pretty clear from that. Britain has priority on a Thursday but not on a Wednesday.

[Fromafar]

To me it confirms that we say goodbye to riders who are not committed to GB,even if the weakens Teams by bringing in youngsters and riders who are gaurenteed to turn up every week,it's p#ssing a lot of fans off IMO .Guests and R/r should only be for injured riders.