Aces51 Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, bill94d said: You only have to look at old films of the way speedway used to be. Even forgetting the 30000 crowds, it was very pedestrian compared to todays bikes and tracks and even the top riders (Craven in particular) seemed to stop on the apex of some turns. Well done Tai, and let's hope the BBC do the decent thing and let us vote for you. I don't know which videos you've been watching but that certainly wasn't how Peter normally rode. Peter could ride the outside if necessary but he predominantly rode the white line or the inside half of the track on the bends. In the 50's and 60's the normal style was to stand up through the bends. Peter's style was more akin to the modern sit down style moving on the bike and using his body to keep the bike as upright as possible to gain grip. He rarely put his foot down. That is why he was known as the Wizard of balance. There were riders, just as there are today, who would on occasion cut under an opponent by going faster into the bends, head for the apex and then get their wheels in line to make a longer straight but it wasn't a common tactic used by Craven. I am not one of those who think that the racing of yesteryear was better than now but I don't think the mainly poor quality, black and white films of that era do justice to the quality of the racing. Videos of any era can be too clinical because you miss out on the atmosphere, emotion and drama when watching years later at home. However, if by pedestrian you mean slower, it was but that was down to the bikes and the tracks. Having said that Peter's track record at Hyde Road of 69.8 stood for about 10 years, eventually broken by Ivan Mauger, if I remember correctly. Edited October 7, 2018 by Aces51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adonis Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 8 hours ago, Aces51 said: Tai was brilliant and a deserved winner. He is without doubt the best rider of the current era and I think he will add to his 3 titles but you really can't compare him with riders of different eras. I have seen the best since the mid 50's and there is no way you can realistically say how someone like Fundin would fare today on completely different machinery, different racing surfaces and against different opposition. I would say that Mauger is the best I have seen. Not only because of his 6 titles but because of the way he dominated the sport week in and week out both domestically and at international level for so many years but it's an opinion not a fact. The is no-one today who dominates as he did but that doesn't guarantee that he would have shone so brightly with the changes that have occurred since he retired. I think he would but the truth is nobody knows for certain. It's the same in reverse. We don't know with certainty how Tai would have done in the 50/60's when riders had more or less the same standard equipment, tracks were deeper and the best in the world rode in the UK on the many and varied tracks that were different shapes and sizes. I think he would have done well but good enough to match the like of Fundin, Briggs, Craven and Moore, I don't know and neither does anyone else. In the 80s and 90s if you saw a top rider like nielsen gundersen rickardsson get beat it would be a topic of conversation throughout speedway for a week ,Woffinden loses a race and it's not even noteworthy . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 1 hour ago, adonis said: In the 80s and 90s if you saw a top rider like nielsen gundersen rickardsson get beat it would be a topic of conversation throughout speedway for a week ,Woffinden loses a race and it's not even noteworthy . Not noteworthy if it was to a top rider... Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 4 hours ago, adonis said: In the 80s and 90s if you saw a top rider like nielsen gundersen rickardsson get beat it would be a topic of conversation throughout speedway for a week ,Woffinden loses a race and it's not even noteworthy . Correct. Because Woffy races the world's best multiple times a week (Actually per meeting, so often half a dozen times per week, or more than a dozen in gp week). Nielsen and Gundersen would face a world top ten rider maybe once or twice a week at most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK246 Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 7 hours ago, adonis said: In the 80s and 90s if you saw a top rider like nielsen gundersen rickardsson get beat it would be a topic of conversation throughout speedway for a week ,Woffinden loses a race and it's not even noteworthy . That's because of the GP mindset, second place is good enough. How to take an extreme, winner takes all sport and turn it in to something so dull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 1 hour ago, MARK246 said: That's because of the GP mindset, second place is good enough. How to take an extreme, winner takes all sport and turn it in to something so dull. Yep, this gp series has been incredibly dull, and clearly it is because riders like Woffy dont have a winning mindset... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Carter Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 2 hours ago, MARK246 said: That's because of the GP mindset, second place is good enough. How to take an extreme, winner takes all sport and turn it in to something so dull. Or a more accurate way to look at it would be that in the old one of world final if you had one bad race the jig was up and you might as well start packing up your van. In SGP every point counts so riders race hard through the whole meeting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adonis Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 2 hours ago, MARK246 said: That's because of the GP mindset, second place is good enough. How to take an extreme, winner takes all sport and turn it in to something so dull. I wasn't talking about GPs i meant league racing ,the top boys of those days would have been disgraced by 5 points in a league match Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 34 minutes ago, adonis said: I wasn't talking about GPs i meant league racing ,the top boys of those days would have been disgraced by 5 points in a league match Well let's face it, that's understandable given how much easier it was given the heat format and lower standard compared to what Woffy races in Sweden and Poland... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff100 Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 Just watched the highlight of the last races think ty owes hancock a big drink ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endeavour Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 Mauger with his consistency would probably have won more world titles if it had been in GP form when he rode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 10 hours ago, Endeavour said: Mauger with his consistency would probably have won more world titles if it had been in GP form when he rode. 68-70,72-74. Any other years? But agree somewhat, for the top couple of riders in world the gp system would favour them. Everyone else had a better chance in a one off final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 31 minutes ago, waiheke1 said: 68-70,72-74. Any other years? But agree somewhat, for the top couple of riders in world the gp system would favour them. Everyone else had a better chance in a one off final. There's a case to be made for Michanek in 73, and I think Mauger's experience might have given him the advantage over Olsen in 71 across a whole season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 hour ago, arnieg said: There's a case to be made for Michanek in 73, and I think Mauger's experience might have given him the advantage over Olsen in 71 across a whole season. Agreed. So ending with 5-7 titles? Maybe would have got close 75-78 but likely to be the olsen/Collins years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacqueline Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 our photos from Torun are now online: https://photos.app.goo.gl/8m2tbwctreenwS116 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 There is a strong possibility that Ove Fundin would have won every year from 1956 - 1963, making eight in all. The only interruption to that could have been Briggo in 57 and/or 58. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, norbold said: There is a strong possibility that Ove Fundin would have won every year from 1956 - 1963, making eight in all. The only interruption to that could have been Briggo in 57 and/or 58. Briggs would have probably won in 67 though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 34 minutes ago, Grachan said: Briggs would have probably won in 67 though. Yes, that's why I didn't include 67! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 On 10/8/2018 at 9:49 AM, adonis said: I wasn't talking about GPs i meant league racing ,the top boys of those days would have been disgraced by 5 points in a league match I must have been lucky,or unlucky if you like.I made one trip to Cradley and after beating Nielsen in the Golden Helmet,Gundersen then went on to get around 5 or 6 in the meeting against Oxford.I also went to Reading and you know what Per Jonsson got about 5 or 6 points!!! Obviously you are underestimating the impact as I am still talking about those meetings decades after lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topaz325 Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 Another great trip to Torun, good weather , friendly people, nice food and the beer! plus the prices of food and drink. Oh and the Speedway was first class too, not so good was the Polish chap dancing and cheering when Tai fell off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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