Byker Biker Posted September 5, 2018 Report Share Posted September 5, 2018 15 hours ago, GWC said: Sweden isn’t in a good place as most teams lose money and their rider base is reducing dramatically, much worse than the UK. It needs Poland to realise they are killing the sport for their own benefit. The GP’s are a great advert for the sport but create so many problems for domestic speedway in the UK. The bigger issue will be "How come there are only Polish riders in the Grand Prix?" Then they might wake up, we may only have 1 or 2 Brits capable of winning a race at that level never mind a GP or the series, Tai yes and Robert eventually. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted September 6, 2018 Report Share Posted September 6, 2018 On 9/4/2018 at 9:32 AM, moxey63 said: Turn on the Tv on a Monday for the British league and you see some of the riders you see if you tune in on a Tuesday for Swedish league or Sundays in Poland. It will take years to correct. But, come on, the whole point of supporting a team is... to support a team... of your guys. Speedway is not s erious team sport that makes you want to support a team with any effort. For me, my guess is that speedway began losing its credibility as a semi-serious product in the early 2000s when doubling up and down, and the double points gimmick came about. Since then it has got much much worse. Old fans have lost interest as they find it hard who actually rides for what team as first choice. Possible new fans just aren't coming through. This could be why crowds are so low and have demised over recent years so rapid. Has speedway kept going through time because it was assured of old fans remaining loyal more than they are today and they were joined by a crop of new fans on to the terraces to replace natural wastage as older fans drifted away for obvious reasons? But the current mess of domestic speedway right now, it could be that old fans aren't attending as much as before through frustration, disillusionment, costs... and new fans aren't being introduced by old fans. agreed with virtually all this post. imo, only big names will create big crowds, british speedway is very weak and not very attractive. Its not knocking it, its just fact. Olsen, Collins, Jessup, Lee, etc, were worth admission money, seeing them just once/twice a season was a motive to turn out, you now seeing same riders race for you, and then against you . clearly british clubs are not in the position to afford this, hence we have what we have now. I would guess a lot of people on this forum "used" to go to speedway, in which case the speedway PR have a opportunity to address these people. if you go on a cruise, the company try to entice you back after your holiday. People on hear "could" be persuaded back, some will never return. only my view, but doubling up and not having your own 7 riders has taken away the true team aspect. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted September 7, 2018 Report Share Posted September 7, 2018 I don't know if it's the case, but not visiting this forum as much as I used to, I recall some names that used to be quite prolific on here that no longer post. I wonder if it's through disillusionment. Have they just got out of the routine of not only attending matches but actually commenting on the sport? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted September 7, 2018 Report Share Posted September 7, 2018 14 hours ago, ColinMills said: agreed with virtually all this post. imo, only big names will create big crowds, british speedway is very weak and not very attractive. Its not knocking it, its just fact. Olsen, Collins, Jessup, Lee, etc, were worth admission money, seeing them just once/twice a season was a motive to turn out, you now seeing same riders race for you, and then against you . clearly british clubs are not in the position to afford this, hence we have what we have now. I would guess a lot of people on this forum "used" to go to speedway, in which case the speedway PR have a opportunity to address these people. if you go on a cruise, the company try to entice you back after your holiday. People on hear "could" be persuaded back, some will never return. only my view, but doubling up and not having your own 7 riders has taken away the true team aspect. Some of the racing from Belle Vue on Wednesday made me feel I might attend the occasional match. It was blood and thunder stuff. But it has got to give itself a good shakedown and offer a sport that is credible. The first, to make that first night experience make you want to come back if you're a new fan. Waiting 10 minutes between races, even to me, a very old fan, it would be something I'd not like doing if I returned to watch a live match. I honestly don't know how I coped for 40 years with all that dead space between the heats. Secondly, rid it of all the rules etc that'll make any new fan begin to question it further down the line. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted September 7, 2018 Report Share Posted September 7, 2018 (edited) Brady Kurtz recently helped Belle Vue to put Swindon out of the Play Offs when he top scored for Belle Vue at Swindon... Brady Kurtz rides for Poole... Who, could get beaten in the Play Off Final by Belle Vue... He replaced Craig Cook that night the Belle Vue No1, as he was riding for Glasgow, a team he joined just a few weeks earlier.. Last year's Promotion/Relegation Play Off took place with two teams who shared several riders throughout the season.... Effectively it meant that these riders had rode so badly that they had put one of their teams in the postion of losing their top league spot, whilst at the same time, riding so well that they had also put one of their teams in the position of possible promotion... On that night they had the opportunity to either relegate or promote themselves... Speedway In Decline? Cannot think why.... When such nonsense is allowed to take place (and is part of the fundamental operating model as happily agreed each year by those who run it), then even any amount of 'Heat 13's at the NSS' will make the Sport more popular. . Edited September 7, 2018 by mikebv 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted September 7, 2018 Report Share Posted September 7, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, mikebv said: Brady Kurtz recently helped Belle Vue to put Swindon out of the Play Offs when he top scored for Belle Vue at Swindon... Brady Kurtz rides for Poole... Who, could get beaten in the Play Off Final by Belle Vue... He replaced Craig Cook that night the Belle Vue No1, as he was riding for Glasgow, a team he joined just a few weeks earlier.. Last year's Promotion/Relegation Play Off took place with two teams who shared several riders throughout the season.... Effectively it meant that these riders had rode so badly that they had put one of their teams in the postion of losing their top league spot, whilst at the same time, riding so well that they had also put one of their teams in the position of possible promotion... On that night they had the opportunity to either relegate or promote themselves... Speedway In Decline? Cannot think why.... When such nonsense is allowed to take place (and is part of the fundamental operating model as happily agreed each year by those who run it), then no amount of 'Heat 13's at the NSS' will even make the Sport more popular. . I agree. A wonderful spectacle is often ruined by things that happen off track. Edited September 7, 2018 by moxey63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted September 7, 2018 Report Share Posted September 7, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, moxey63 said: I agree. A wonderful spectacle is often ruined by things that happen off track. We love or have loved the sport. We feel it silly. Try selling it (taking away the spectacle) to an outsider, someone you want to return the second time. To follow a 'Team Sport' you need an emotional attachment to 'your' team... (British) Speedway doesn't recognise any importance in that... The 'Guest' system only underlines that lack of emotional attachment... No disrespect to any rider who takes the booking to earn a few extra quid (as pay rates can be 'lucrative' given the situation ) but all it does is reinforce the belief that, for the riders, each team they ride for is nothing more than a 'flag of convenience' to earn coin on any given night..... Brady Kurtz, as have many before him, could possibly have helped a team qualify for the Final, that may well end up preventing himself, his team mates, and his fans, celebrate a title triumph... His opportunity to earn a few quid came about because Craig Cook took up a place at Glasgow knowing he would more than likely clash with BV meetings thus impacting one of his teams either way.. If riders can do this then simply they either don't have any emotional attachment to the team they ride for or, just simply see the Competitions as not important enough to take seriously and treat them as a bona fide Championships like they would in Sweden and Poland... Either way, not easy to sell a Sport ran like that and expect those who you are selling it to to buy into it and follow it with emotional investment.. Cannot knock the riders for trying to earn a few extra quid, but the Sport in the UK won't stop the decline, never mind move forwards, by allowing such things to happen.. Edited September 7, 2018 by mikebv 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted September 8, 2018 Report Share Posted September 8, 2018 not to mention the dozens of team changes during the season. No loyalty either way so its no surprise fans don't 'feel' the team or have loyalty to the track. Just because a rider slightly under performs doesn't mean he wasn't someone's favourite 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spl77 Posted September 8, 2018 Report Share Posted September 8, 2018 13 hours ago, mikebv said: To follow a 'Team Sport' you need an emotional attachment to 'your' team... (British) Speedway doesn't recognise any importance in that... The 'Guest' system only underlines that lack of emotional attachment... No disrespect to any rider who takes the booking to earn a few extra quid (as pay rates can be 'lucrative' given the situation ) but all it does is reinforce the belief that, for the riders, each team they ride for is nothing more than a 'flag of convenience' to earn coin on any given night..... Brady Kurtz, as have many before him, could possibly have helped a team qualify for the Final, that may well end up preventing himself, his team mates, and his fans, celebrate a title triumph... His opportunity to earn a few quid came about because Craig Cook took up a place at Glasgow knowing he would more than likely clash with BV meetings thus impacting one of his teams either way.. If riders can do this then simply they either don't have any emotional attachment to the team they ride for or, just simply see the Competitions as not important enough to take seriously and treat them as a bona fide Championships like they would in Sweden and Poland... Either way, not easy to sell a Sport ran like that and expect those who you are selling it to to buy into it and follow it with emotional investment.. Cannot knock the riders for trying to earn a few extra quid, but the Sport in the UK won't stop the decline, never mind move forwards, by allowing such things to happen.. Take the last few weeks when Scott Nicholls has been guesting for Ipswich. Now don't get me wrong everyone at Ipswich loves seeing Scott wearing the witch just as much as I'm sure he still loves riding for the club. The problem comes that he could have scored the points Ipswich needed to get into the playoffs and Ipswich could possibly have met Peterborough in the final and beaten Scott's own team to the title. That on its own is a crazy situation for a team sport to be in. Worse now though because even though Ipswich won't qualify Scott is njured while riding for Ipswich which again could reck Peterborough's season. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted September 8, 2018 Report Share Posted September 8, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Spl77 said: Take the last few weeks when Scott Nicholls has been guesting for Ipswich. Now don't get me wrong everyone at Ipswich loves seeing Scott wearing the witch just as much as I'm sure he still loves riding for the club. The problem comes that he could have scored the points Ipswich needed to get into the playoffs and Ipswich could possibly have met Peterborough in the final and beaten Scott's own team to the title. That on its own is a crazy situation for a team sport to be in. Worse now though because even though Ipswich won't qualify Scott is njured while riding for Ipswich which again could reck Peterborough's season. Not quite as crazy as last season when `Scott rode for both teams in a Final ie in both legs for a different side. That really put me off the sport in the UK. Complete nonsense that can't be taken seriously - although a great race is still magical entertainment ( sadly for the addicts ). Pantomime stuff. Edited September 8, 2018 by waytogo28 additional point made Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted September 9, 2018 Report Share Posted September 9, 2018 On 9/7/2018 at 11:59 AM, moxey63 said: Some of the racing from Belle Vue on Wednesday made me feel I might attend the occasional match. It was blood and thunder stuff. But it has got to give itself a good shakedown and offer a sport that is credible. The first, to make that first night experience make you want to come back if you're a new fan. Waiting 10 minutes between races, even to me, a very old fan, it would be something I'd not like doing if I returned to watch a live match. I honestly don't know how I coped for 40 years with all that dead space between the heats. Secondly, rid it of all the rules etc that'll make any new fan begin to question it further down the line. Maybe you discussed the last race with mates, same with the race to come, sung along with the music, had a little banter with away fans, sipped your drink, read a bit if the programme, listening to the interview over the tannoy etc, so you didn't even notice the gap between races! Are you now standing completely on your own, without a prog, can't hear the tannoy and looking for something to moan about? haha 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehone Posted September 10, 2018 Report Share Posted September 10, 2018 On 9/5/2018 at 7:43 AM, Byker Biker said: The bigger issue will be "How come there are only Polish riders in the Grand Prix?" they could then call it "The World Series" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted September 10, 2018 Report Share Posted September 10, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Trees said: Maybe you discussed the last race with mates, same with the race to come, sung along with the music, had a little banter with away fans, sipped your drink, read a bit if the programme, listening to the interview over the tannoy etc, so you didn't even notice the gap between races! Are you now standing completely on your own, without a prog, can't hear the tannoy and looking for something to moan about? haha Yes, superbly described. Was that you, the other person in the stadium? Think it was a human, could just about make out a silhouette on the far side. Edited September 10, 2018 by moxey63 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skid Sprocket Posted September 10, 2018 Report Share Posted September 10, 2018 On 9/7/2018 at 11:52 AM, moxey63 said: I don't know if it's the case, but not visiting this forum as much as I used to, I recall some names that used to be quite prolific on here that no longer post. I wonder if it's through disillusionment. Have they just got out of the routine of not only attending matches but actually commenting on the sport? Same here not been on for a while, problem is there are as many different solutions as members and never any real consensus. These are the thoughts of one forward thinking promoter, there must be other promoters with similar views who need our backing and drag the sport out of the "pits"; Speedway in the future; Where are we going? A lot of you will be aware that meetings are taking place to discuss the future of speedway in the UK. Ideas and proposals are being put forward and arguments are being had. The topics range from league formats, how many riders in a team to how many races in a match. We all know the sport is in trouble. Crowds are down all over the country and costs are on the up and up. Everyone has an opinion on the issues within the sport but no one, it appears, has the answers. Since I attended my first A.G.M. last November I've been astounded at the lack of unity, cohesion and clarity within the sport and nothing has changed since. Decision are made behind closed doors without explanation to the rest of the (promoters) association or the fans and conspiracy theories then abound as to what has happened and why. So what do we do? Meetings keep getting planned, arguments being had. The sport is crying out for a resolution, a new way forward, positive leadership with new ideas and energetic leadership, not more of the same, quick fix ideas without thinking of the future. Will it happen? Will someone step forward from the gloom and take the sport forward? I simply don't know. I dearly hope so for the sport I love but there are massive dark clouds around and there doesn't appear to be a change in the weather very soon. We need to listen to each other, the riders and the fans and formulate a framework for the good of the sport as a whole. Let's hope a storm is coming. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted September 11, 2018 Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 11 hours ago, Skid Sprocket said: Since I attended my first A.G.M. last November I've been astounded at the lack of unity, cohesion and clarity within the sport and nothing has changed since. If this is from someone on "the inside" there clearly is little hope for the kind of radical change needed to ensure the sport does continue in the way that current supporters will go on supporting. Is UK speedway a kind of vanity project with benevolent, wealthy promoters underwriting it? Their unwillingness to work together ( seemingly ) or uncover the man or woman who can take them in a sustainable direction in the short term ( and build for the medium term ). Fans have turned away from what they see on track as well as the " good of the sport" decisions syndrome ( which is often laughable and of course unexplained ). The Chairman should step down as he has been increasingly invisible, as should the Deputy Chairman. Their leadership era has only made everything worse and has improved virtually nothing. They have failed perhaps for a variety of reasons, but they have failed, as have all of the leadership of the last 20 years. They failed to capitalise on the Sky years and find other major sponsors. What is shown on BT is mostly excrable racing on trick tracks in grotty 1950's stadiums with hardly anyone watching on. With one or two exclusions. BT may be happy with the viewing figures but it is not an edifying sight nor one which is attracting the general public nor sponsors. If anything it shows that Pay Per View could have been a success and may still be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skid Sprocket Posted September 11, 2018 Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 1 hour ago, waytogo28 said: If this is from someone on "the inside" there clearly is little hope for the kind of radical change needed to ensure the sport does continue in the way that current supporters will go on supporting. Is UK speedway a kind of vanity project with benevolent, wealthy promoters underwriting it? Their unwillingness to work together ( seemingly ) or uncover the man or woman who can take them in a sustainable direction in the short term ( and build for the medium term ). Fans have turned away from what they see on track as well as the " good of the sport" decisions syndrome ( which is often laughable and of course unexplained ). The Chairman should step down as he has been increasingly invisible, as should the Deputy Chairman. Their leadership era has only made everything worse and has improved virtually nothing. They have failed perhaps for a variety of reasons, but they have failed, as have all of the leadership of the last 20 years. They failed to capitalise on the Sky years and find other major sponsors. What is shown on BT is mostly excrable racing on trick tracks in grotty 1950's stadiums with hardly anyone watching on. With one or two exclusions. BT may be happy with the viewing figures but it is not an edifying sight nor one which is attracting the general public nor sponsors. If anything it shows that Pay Per View could have been a success and may still be. This is from an insider written out of "sheer frustration" but I look at it as a little bit of hope if there are promoters willing take into account the views of ALL concerned. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted September 11, 2018 Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 22 hours ago, Skid Sprocket said: Same here not been on for a while, problem is there are as many different solutions as members and never any real consensus. These are the thoughts of one forward thinking promoter, there must be other promoters with similar views who need our backing and drag the sport out of the "pits"; Speedway in the future; Where are we going? A lot of you will be aware that meetings are taking place to discuss the future of speedway in the UK. Ideas and proposals are being put forward and arguments are being had. The topics range from league formats, how many riders in a team to how many races in a match. We all know the sport is in trouble. Crowds are down all over the country and costs are on the up and up. Everyone has an opinion on the issues within the sport but no one, it appears, has the answers. Since I attended my first A.G.M. last November I've been astounded at the lack of unity, cohesion and clarity within the sport and nothing has changed since. Decision are made behind closed doors without explanation to the rest of the (promoters) association or the fans and conspiracy theories then abound as to what has happened and why. So what do we do? Meetings keep getting planned, arguments being had. The sport is crying out for a resolution, a new way forward, positive leadership with new ideas and energetic leadership, not more of the same, quick fix ideas without thinking of the future. Will it happen? Will someone step forward from the gloom and take the sport forward? I simply don't know. I dearly hope so for the sport I love but there are massive dark clouds around and there doesn't appear to be a change in the weather very soon. We need to listen to each other, the riders and the fans and formulate a framework for the good of the sport as a whole. Let's hope a storm is coming. Is this really a Promoter or someone off here? If they can see the 'bleedin' obvious' then why can't all the others? The ultimate irony of course is that the Competitions so many attempt to win by trying to put one over their rivals, are rendered absolutely worthless by their very actions of doing what they do... Rather than working together to build up Competitions to give them some kudos, they instead often work in splendid isolation, (or cliques), and find more and more imaganitive ways to discredit them... Couldn't make it up sometimes could you..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skid Sprocket Posted September 11, 2018 Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 40 minutes ago, mikebv said: Is this really a Promoter or someone off here? If they can see the 'bleedin' obvious' then why can't all the others? The ultimate irony of course is that the Competitions so many attempt to win by trying to put one over their rivals, are rendered absolutely worthless by their very actions of doing what they do... Rather than working together to build up Competitions to give them some kudos, they instead often work in splendid isolation, (or cliques), and find more and more imaganitive ways to discredit them... Couldn't make it up sometimes could you..? This is 100% a genuine promoter. I was personally given their ok to quote it. I have withheld names and club as I dont want to push my luck and say too much. There must be other (honest) promoters who could speak up! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byker Biker Posted September 11, 2018 Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 38 minutes ago, Skid Sprocket said: This is 100% a genuine promoter. I was personally given their ok to quote it. I have withheld names and club as I dont want to push my luck and say too much. There must be other (honest) promoters who could speak up! There are and have been, they got burnt by the rest of them! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skid Sprocket Posted September 11, 2018 Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 27 minutes ago, Byker Biker said: There are and have been, they got burnt by the rest of them! Yes I understand that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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