The continuing decline of Speedway

[Davet]

I take it, Orion that you don't regard yourself as an older fan, and consequently you don't realise how much better speedway was 30 or so years ago! Sure, the racing was probably no better than it is today, but the noise, the smell, the atmosphere and most of all the fun has largely been lost from the sport to its detriment.

Speedway today takes itself far too seriously.  If you have ever watched stock cars or bangers you would have to agree that the "racing" is nothing special. Difficult to tell who is winning, if you even care, but these events seem to attract far better crowds than speedway, simply because of the noise and the smell, etc. which speedway has systematically eradicated due to "technological improvement".

I know that, unfortunately it would be difficult to reintroduce the noise and to a lesser extent the smell as this would upset the environmentalists, bit I can't help thinking that reverting to deep tracks so that rider ability was more important than horse power would be a step in the right direction. How you bring the fun back is another question altogether!

[Stoke Potter]

16 minutes ago, Davet said:

I know that, unfortunately it would be difficult to reintroduce the noise and to a lesser extent the smell as this would upset the environmentalists

There have been rule changes to deliberately reduce the smell?

[orion]

8 minutes ago, Davet said:

I take it, Orion that you don't regard yourself as an older fan, and consequently you don't realise how much better speedway was 30 or so years ago! Sure, the racing was probably no better than it is today, but the noise, the smell, the atmosphere and most of all the fun has largely been lost from the sport to its detriment.

Speedway today takes itself far too seriously.  If you have ever watched stock cars or bangers you would have to agree that the "racing" is nothing special. Difficult to tell who is winning, if you even care, but these events seem to attract far better crowds than speedway, simply because of the noise and the smell, etc. which speedway has systematically eradicated due to "technological improvement".

I know that, unfortunately it would be difficult to reintroduce the noise and to a lesser extent the smell as this would upset the environmentalists, bit I can't help thinking that reverting to deep tracks so that rider ability was more important than horse power would be a step in the right direction. How you bring the fun back is another question altogether!

Of course I understand speedway was better 30 years ago ..when have I or anyone for that matter  said otherwise ?  what has been said and you  alude  to it yourself  is that things that worked  then won't work now .

[Davet]

I don't understand how people can believe speedway was better in the past but also say you can't turn the clock back. Surely it's clear that, if you're going in the wrong direction the sensible thing to do is to turn back. 

 

19 minutes ago, Stoke Potter said:

There have been rule changes to deliberately reduce the smell?

  Who mentioned rule changes? Technology has reduced the smell, but has also detracted from the overall experience.

[orion]

44 minutes ago, Davet said:

  I don't understand how people can believe speedway was better in the past but also say you can't turn the clock back. Surely it's clear that, if you're going in the wrong direction the sensible thing to do is to turn back. 

 

  

??? it's pretty easy to understand ...things that worked 30 years won't work today ...surely it can't be that hard to figure out .It's bit like asking the BBC to bring back shows from the 70's because  they  has 20 million viewers back then  .but in 2018 hardly anyone  would care  or watch them .

Edited September 3, 2018 by orion

[chunky]

17 minutes ago, Davet said:

I don't understand how people can believe speedway was better in the past but also say you can't turn the clock back. Surely it's clear that, if you're going in the wrong direction the sensible thing to do is to turn back. 

Right, two-valve uprights, black leathers and monkey masks, all things that can be reintroduced and will bring the crowds flocking back?

Get rid of TV or live-streaming, and that will bring the crowds flocking back?

Rebuild Hyde Rd, Plough Lane, County Ground, Dudley Wood, Waterden Rd, The Shay, Blackbird Rd etc?  That would bring the crowds flocking back?

I miss holiday camps,  the Morecambe and Wise Christmas Specials, the Kursaal, the family butcher, going to footy and changing ends at half-time, paraffin lamps and gas mantles, and Payne's Poppets, but just because there are bunch of us oldies who feel that we have gone in the wrong direction,, they are not going to turn the clock back for us....

Steve

 

[waytogo28]

8 hours ago, chunky said:

Right, two-valve uprights, black leathers and monkey masks, all things that can be reintroduced and will bring the crowds flocking back?

Get rid of TV or live-streaming, and that will bring the crowds flocking back?

Rebuild Hyde Rd, Plough Lane, County Ground, Dudley Wood, Waterden Rd, The Shay, Blackbird Rd etc?  That would bring the crowds flocking back?

I miss holiday camps,  the Morecambe and Wise Christmas Specials, the Kursaal, the family butcher, going to footy and changing ends at half-time, paraffin lamps and gas mantles, and Payne's Poppets, but just because there are bunch of us oldies who feel that we have gone in the wrong direction,, they are not going to turn the clock back for us....

Steve

 

Quite right in many ways but sadly no-one involved in promoting speedway has the slightest idea on how to turn the clock forward and bring the crowds flocking back either. Some elements of the past slower, less powerful bikes able to be ridden on tracks with grip should produce closer racing and more passing which equals on-track ) excitement, which everyone craves ( especially new fans if they are to fall in love with UK speedway ). The predictable nature of most heats and many matches is what will continue to fail to attract any new fans of any age.

[orion]

1 hour ago, waytogo28 said:

Quite right in many ways but sadly no-one involved in promoting speedway has the slightest idea on how to turn the clock forward and bring the crowds flocking back either. Some elements of the past slower, less powerful bikes able to be ridden on tracks with grip should produce closer racing and more passing which equals on-track ) excitement, which everyone craves ( especially new fans if they are to fall in love with UK speedway ). The predictable nature of most heats and many matches is what will continue to fail to attract any new fans of any age.

Racing was just as  predictable in the past as were the matches. The top riders used to be miles clear of other riders in the old daysand have cma of 11 plus where now you get nothing like that now .As for the racing just like today 90 % of it was from the gate and most meetings were crap but made to feel and look better because  the crowds were bigger .

[moxey63]

Turn on the Tv on a Monday for the British league and you see some of the riders you see if you tune in on a Tuesday for Swedish league or Sundays in Poland.

It will take years to correct. But, come on, the whole point of supporting a team is... to support a team... of your guys. Speedway is not s erious team sport that makes you want to support a team with any effort.

For me, my guess is that speedway began losing its credibility as a semi-serious product in the early 2000s when doubling up and down, and the double points gimmick came about. Since then it has got much much worse. Old fans have lost interest as they find it hard who actually rides for what team as first choice. Possible new fans just aren't coming through.

This could be why crowds are so low and have demised over recent years so rapid.

Has speedway kept going through time because it was assured of old fans remaining loyal more than they are today and they were joined by a crop of new fans on to the terraces to replace natural wastage as older fans drifted away for obvious reasons?

 But the current mess of domestic speedway right now, it could be that old fans aren't attending as much as before through frustration, disillusionment, costs... and new fans aren't being introduced by old fans.

 

[Grachan]

I reckon Speedway in GB made a major mistake many years ago in not having meetings on a Sunday.

Nowadays, speedway on a Sunday afternoon would probably double crowds at some venues as this is probably an ideal time to go to a speedway meeting. Instead, the top riders began riding on the continent on Sundays, and the Polish league took Sunday as its day.

If the UK had Sunday afternoons as its fixed race night/day now, I reckon we'd be doing a lot better.

[Grachan]

1 minute ago, moxey63 said:

Turn on the Tv on a Monday for the British league and you see some of the riders you see if you tune in on a Tuesday for Swedish league or Sundays in Poland.

It will take years to correct. But, come on, the whole point of supporting a team is... to support a team... of your guys. Speedway is not s erious team sport that makes you want to support a team with any effort.

For me, my guess is that speedway began losing its credibility as a semi-serious product in the early 2000s when doubling up and down, and the double points gimmick came about. Since then it has got much much worse. Old fans have lost interest as they find it hard who actually rides for what team as first choice. Possible new fans just aren't coming through.

This could be why crowds are so low and have demised over recent years so rapid.

Has speedway kept going through time because it was assured of old fans remaining loyal more than they are today and they were joined by a crop of new fans on to the terraces to replace natural wastage as older fans drifted away for obvious reasons?

 But the current mess of domestic speedway right now, it could be that old fans aren't attending as much as before through frustration, disillusionment, costs... and new fans aren't being introduced by old fans.

 

I think you are right about the double up/down and removal of tactical substitutes.

I think those running the sport underestimated how much a part of the sport the TS was. It was a major discussion point at matches - even between strangers. They got rid of that, and, at the same time, made the gaps between races seem twice as long as they did before.

Speedway was not just about motor bikes. It was about tactics and the scoring system. They got rid of that and changed what the sport is.

[mikebv]

17 minutes ago, Grachan said:

I reckon Speedway in GB made a major mistake many years ago in not having meetings on a Sunday.

Nowadays, speedway on a Sunday afternoon would probably double crowds at some venues as this is probably an ideal time to go to a speedway meeting. Instead, the top riders began riding on the continent on Sundays, and the Polish league took Sunday as its day.

If the UK had Sunday afternoons as its fixed race night/day now, I reckon we'd be doing a lot better.

Or even Saturday afternoons..

Plenty of Saturdays in the Summer without any Football...

Due to the lack of credibility of the Leagues,  many say they now just watch the sport as an 'entertainment', rather than take the Competitions seriously, therefore running the 'entertainment' at weekends when most have their 'leisure time' must surely deliver better attendances..?

It is clear that the Sport doesn't attract many 'new fans', so running on days that can facilitate attendance by more of those who actually do know about it has to be an idea worth pursuing I would suggest..

Edited September 4, 2018 by mikebv

[Grachan]

21 minutes ago, mikebv said:

Or even Saturday afternoons..

Plenty of Saturdays in the Summer without any Football...

Due to the lack of credibility of the Leagues,  many say they now just watch the sport as an 'entertainment', rather than take the Competitions seriously, therefore running the 'entertainment' at weekends when most have their 'leisure time' must surely deliver better attendances..?

It is clear that the Sport doesn't attract many 'new fans', so running on days that can facilitate attendance by more of those who actually do know about it has to be an idea worth pursuing I would suggest..

Saturdays would have been lost to the GPs though.

If GB had embraced Sundays when they had the chance, they would have had that slot now probably.

Poland, presumably, started using Sundays because it was the only day that was available.

[moxey63]

1 hour ago, Grachan said:

I think you are right about the double up/down and removal of tactical substitutes.

I think those running the sport underestimated how much a part of the sport the TS was. It was a major discussion point at matches - even between strangers. They got rid of that, and, at the same time, made the gaps between races seem twice as long as they did before.

Speedway was not just about motor bikes. It was about tactics and the scoring system. They got rid of that and changed what the sport is.

Totally agree. Somehow all the fun and anticipation had gone of who the opposing team would introduce as a tac to reduce arrears. The golden double was a move that failed to take us to the promised land and caused more harm than good. Why it took so long to bin it, I just don't know. It isn't just about motorbike - I mean, how many of us have ever ridden a blinking thing? I was never interested in motorbike racing. But speedway was different - you had a team, favourite riders, and a few hours at the track to marvel at team managing duties.

 

By the way, as I am a keen collector of stats, the pain it is and how unreal it seems when the double points came about. I just don't wanna go near stats from when the GD was introduced. Just don't seem real, like a novelty thing used in a testimonial. How many fans are like me and were put off?

Edited September 4, 2018 by moxey63

[mikebv]

1 hour ago, Grachan said:

Saturdays would have been lost to the GPs though.

If GB had embraced Sundays when they had the chance, they would have had that slot now probably.

Poland, presumably, started using Sundays because it was the only day that was available.

And one of the main issues for the decline is as you describe...

The impact of the GP's...

Instead of moving around fixtures to accommodate all and sundry British Speedway should have just set it's stall out and worked within clear parameters. If certain riders couldnt be there on the best days to attract a following then others would....

You only have to see the racing from Poland and Sweden now being beamed free weekly into UK homes to see how hopeless it is to try and compete with these Countries..

But instead of accepting this, as always with British Speedway, it will try and appease, fudge and cobble together something on a continous ad hoc basis, rather than clearly stand for something, and be clear with its own identity and where it is heading...

Last Friday evening the BV Colts and Kent delivered fantastic racing, all for just £10 and kids in for free..

It's just a shame the Sport overall in Britain cannot ever deliver credible competitions, on the best days to attract maximum crowds, as the actual nuts and bolts of the racing is often very worth watching...

 

[SteveLyric2]

2 hours ago, mikebv said:

And one of the main issues for the decline is as you describe...

The impact of the GP's...

Instead of moving around fixtures to accommodate all and sundry British Speedway should have just set it's stall out and worked within clear parameters. If certain riders couldnt be there on the best days to attract a following then others would....

You only have to see the racing from Poland and Sweden now being beamed free weekly into UK homes to see how hopeless it is to try and compete with these Countries..

But instead of accepting this, as always with British Speedway, it will try and appease, fudge and cobble together something on a continous ad hoc basis, rather than clearly stand for something, and be clear with its own identity and where it is heading...

Last Friday evening the BV Colts and Kent delivered fantastic racing, all for just £10 and kids in for free..

It's just a shame the Sport overall in Britain cannot ever deliver credible competitions, on the best days to attract maximum crowds, as the actual nuts and bolts of the racing is often very worth watching...

 

....and did the club break even?

[SteveLyric2]

14 hours ago, orion said:

??? it's pretty easy to understand ...things that worked 30 years won't work today ...surely it can't be that hard to figure out .It's bit like asking the BBC to bring back shows from the 70's because  they  has 20 million viewers back then  .but in 2018 hardly anyone  would care  or watch them .

Yep I was working 30 years ago but not now. 

Its like Morecambe and Wise a few years back when asked  what they would be if they weren't comedians, Eric replied 'Mike & Bernie Winters.!!

[GWC]

4 hours ago, mikebv said:

And one of the main issues for the decline is as you describe...

The impact of the GP's...

Instead of moving around fixtures to accommodate all and sundry British Speedway should have just set it's stall out and worked within clear parameters. If certain riders couldnt be there on the best days to attract a following then others would....

You only have to see the racing from Poland and Sweden now being beamed free weekly into UK homes to see how hopeless it is to try and compete with these Countries..

But instead of accepting this, as always with British Speedway, it will try and appease, fudge and cobble together something on a continous ad hoc basis, rather than clearly stand for something, and be clear with its own identity and where it is heading...

Last Friday evening the BV Colts and Kent delivered fantastic racing, all for just £10 and kids in for free..

It's just a shame the Sport overall in Britain cannot ever deliver credible competitions, on the best days to attract maximum crowds, as the actual nuts and bolts of the racing is often very worth watching...

 

Sweden isn’t in a good place as most teams lose money and their rider base is reducing dramatically, much worse than the UK.

It needs Poland to realise they are killing the sport for their own benefit.

The GP’s are a great advert for the sport but create so many problems for domestic speedway in the UK.

[mikebv]

2 hours ago, Skidder1 said:

....and did the club break even?

Probably not, however. ..

If that standard of racing was the only game in town and they were not called 'Colts' but 'The Belle Vue Aces' then I reckon a crowd of circa 800-900 could be attracted on a Friday/Saturday night at those prices...

As is obvious though, no crowd at all will turn up for any standard of racing, if they don't know of the Sports existence, like so many it would appear dont...

[waytogo28]

My hunch is that little will change with the mooted two league - Championship level & National level - unless only riders who can commit to riding in the UK are used. With NO doubling down and a lower overall admission price especially in the "top" league. Even then without standardised bikes and a much more positive style of marketing, the UK sport cannot grow. And of course weekend racing for those tracks who prefer it.