The continuing decline of Speedway

[Hamish McRaker]

19 hours ago, orion said:

 

This is what happens when people have paid to go into the stadium, and then find out the team's No.1 is not there and r/r is being used instead

[The Third Man]

22 hours ago, moxey63 said:

They've fooled you then? They mean nothing, the table practically stays the same with or without them making it complicated.

Just checked this in the championship, and you are correct, the table stays the same with two points for any win and one point for any draw, the teams are closer together points wise but that's all

[The Cheese]

23 hours ago, moxey63 said:

They've fooled you then? They mean nothing, the table practically stays the same with or without them making it complicated.

It's not that complicated though is it? If it helps keep meetings interesting and competitive until the end where's the problem in that.. don't really want to go down this route again but plenty of other sports have a points system that involves more than just a basic 3/1/0.

[BluPanther]

2 hours ago, Hamish McRaker said:

This is what happens when people have paid to go into the stadium, and then find out the team's No.1 is not there and r/r is being used instead

Speedway fans aint that young these days  

[Thornaby48]

I think that most people will agree that to win away from home, in any sport, is quite difficult with the old adage "home advantage"  being true. In speed way tracks are different sizes, shapes and surfaces and so it is possibly even more difficult to get a good result. Therefore why not give away wins or draws extra points? I would suggest a system of 4 points home win, 2 for a home draw. Away win 6 points, 3 points for a draw and of course 0 points for defeats. Also give the away team 1 bonus point if they lose by 6 or less. When I have applied this system to the current league tables it hasn't made must difference position wise but does reflect the contribution a good away record makes to a team and could in the final run up to the season make a difference.

[moxey63]

1 hour ago, The Cheese said:

It's not that complicated though is it? If it helps keep meetings interesting and competitive until the end where's the problem in that.. don't really want to go down this route again but plenty of other sports have a points system that involves more than just a basic 3/1/0.

More complicated than it needs to be. It's there for no purpose really. The watercress on a salad dish. If you really need a system to keep fans interested until the end, invent one that really counts for something in the final analysis. Same with the old aggregate bonus points that ran from 1985 until about 10 years back. They didn't really shift the final placings and would have stayed the same had the old 2 points for a win, 1 for a draw remained. Indeed, it was so silly, when a run-off for the bonus point was needed after a tie on points, they held it on the track that staged the so-called second leg instead of having a match race on both tracks, which would have been just as silly!  

Speedway has damaged itself over time by having this sort of thing that makes it seem like a sport brainier than it actually is, and comes away looking silly. I may be wrong, but the more recent Speedway Nations tournament had its winners as the country that finished second in the scoring, although I may be wrong... For that reason, my interest was better served elsewhere.

Edited August 26, 2018 by moxey63

[The Third Man]

1 hour ago, Thornaby48 said:

I think that most people will agree that to win away from home, in any sport, is quite difficult with the old adage "home advantage"  being true. In speed way tracks are different sizes, shapes and surfaces and so it is possibly even more difficult to get a good result. Therefore why not give away wins or draws extra points? I would suggest a system of 4 points home win, 2 for a home draw. Away win 6 points, 3 points for a draw and of course 0 points for defeats. Also give the away team 1 bonus point if they lose by 6 or less. When I have applied this system to the current league tables it hasn't made must difference position wise but does reflect the contribution a good away record makes to a team and could in the final run up to the season make a difference.

Just checked the championship and the table stays the same with two points for any win and one point for any draw, the teams are closer together points wise but that's all

[waytogo28]

However many points you pile onto the system for away wins or draws it is NOT going to pull in any new fans who might become regulars. That is merely more tinkering while Rome falls down. The "managed decline" has started.

[GWC]

Historically speedway teams were 3 heat leaders 2 second strings and 2 reserves.

Building teams within the constraints of averages has seen riders put out of work and dodgy foreign imports (not so many now).

Particularly in the Championship we see teams with 1 to 7 where their averages are a couple of points different so reserve strength is formidable. It seems that’s the way the league is going, partly due to the average calculation and riders levelling off in their development.  

Ultimately that will be damaging to riders wanting to come up from the NL. This season I can only think of Tom Bacon who is making it ok in the CL.

If promoters don’t think about the future then it will be sorted for them by a lack of riders, you could say it’s been like this for too many years hence the problems we have now with rider availability.

 

 

[barrybishop]

On 8/19/2018 at 2:44 PM, Trees said:

If you were part of the Premiership what night would you run on? 

Sorry I thought I had responded to this question. Our planning is for Tues, Wed or Thursday only. Wednesday is used by the football team so regardless of league the only days we can currently run on is a Tuesday or Thursday.

All the best

[Thornaby48]

 I see from last night's results that the Scunthorpe v Sheffield and Glasgow v Newcastle that all 4 teams used r/r. What happened to the rule that when both teams use r/r and or guests they ruled each other out and promote the no8?. 

People say they want to see 7 riders in the team's and comment that next season there will be a shortage of riders, well the good book says (and I don't mean the BSPA  rule book)  "Reap what thy shalt sow" but if we don't give our no 8 a chance then the harvest of new talent will be very thin.

[The Third Man]

On ‎9‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 2:01 PM, Thornaby48 said:

 I see from last night's results that the Scunthorpe v Sheffield and Glasgow v Newcastle that all 4 teams used r/r. What happened to the rule that when both teams use r/r and or guests they ruled each other out and promote the no8?. 

People say they want to see 7 riders in the team's and comment that next season there will be a shortage of riders, well the good book says (and I don't mean the BSPA  rule book)  "Reap what thy shalt sow" but if we don't give our no 8 a chance then the harvest of new talent will be very thin.

haven't  seen that sensible rule used for years, don't know why

[orion]

8 hours ago, The Third Man said:

haven't  seen that sensible rule used for years, don't know why

Pretty clear why .no one wants to see a no hoper be half a lap behind ..plus crowd numbers go down ...not sensible at all unless you like losing money 

[Barney Rabbit]

36 minutes ago, orion said:

Pretty clear why .no one wants to see a no hoper be half a lap behind ..plus crowd numbers go down ...not sensible at all unless you like losing money 

Yes, that's probably what will happen now. But if it was regular practice the #8s would have ridden several matches by now and would have come in at reserve with the reserve moving into the team. That would have evened things up and given NL riders experience at the higher level.

I remember a time when many #8s could hold their own against lower order riders in league matches but that was when they had second half rides firstly against their peers and occasional rides against better riders if they won their junior scurries. They were used more often in league matches too back then and guess what, there were more riders coming through the system to hold down places in BL teams.

[Thornaby48]

10 hours ago, orion said:

Pretty clear why .no one wants to see a no hoper be half a lap behind ..plus crowd numbers go down ...not sensible at all unless you like losing money 

It would be nice to have a constructive  comment instead of all negative ones

[Vincent Blachshadow]

10 hours ago, orion said:

Pretty clear why .no one wants to see a no hoper be half a lap behind ..plus crowd numbers go down ...not sensible at all unless you like losing money 

I'm not entirely convinced that would happen. Wandering round chatting to folk now and again at the various tracks I go to during a season, I've discovered very few actually know the team situation at a given match before arriving at the track. To even know about changes you have to be on this forum, read the SS (and that won't tell you if the injury or whatever is quite recent), read the local press or the team's web-site. Quite a few of those I see don't do any of those, they just make up their minds to go to a match and they go. I've even come across those that will go to a match when the visitors are light, more chance of a win.

Edited September 3, 2018 by Vincent Blachshadow

[Spl77]

13 hours ago, orion said:

Pretty clear why .no one wants to see a no hoper be half a lap behind ..plus crowd numbers go down ...not sensible at all unless you like losing money 

Funny how the Poles name a number 8 in their league matches and they can come in at any point. But then it's a proper professional sport over there. 

[MARK246]

52 minutes ago, Spl77 said:

Funny how the Poles name a number 8 in their league matches and they can come in at any point. But then it's a proper professional sport over there. 

Not such a noticeable decline in their league either. Running as a proper professional sport has it's benefits in other countries.

[orion]

11 hours ago, Vincent Blachshadow said:

 it I'm not entirely convinced that would happen. Wandering round chatting to folk now and again at the various tracks I go to during a season, I've discovered very few actually know the team situation at a given match before arriving at the track. To even know about changes you have to be on this forum, read the SS (and that won't tell you if the injury or whatever is quite recent), read the local press or the team's web-site. Quite a few of those I see don't do any of those, they just make up their minds to go to a match and they go. I've even come across those that will go to a match when the visitors are light, more chance of a win.

I think that go's against what most fans are saying .it's common sense that because of the internet and all the other forms of social media people are more aware than ever on what riders  are likely be at a match and that in turn that has can a massive effect on the size of the crowd .

Do you really think if Swindon were missing there top two are were replaced say by juniors that people would not find out and it would not effect the crowd ? even by a speedway fan standards that is an amazing claim ..I think it  also shows how the older fan is out of touch with things 

Edited September 3, 2018 by orion

[chunky]

25 minutes ago, orion said:

I think that go's against what most fans are saying .it's common sense that because of the internet and all the other forms of social media people are more aware than ever on what riders  are likely be at a match and that in turn that has can a massive effect on the size of the crowd .

Do you really think if Swindon were missing there top two are were replaced say by juniors that people would not find out and it would not effect the crowd ? even by a speedway fan standards that is an amazing claim ..I think it  also shows how the older fan is out of touch with things 

I know that youngsters need to get the experience, but other than a handful - a very small handful - of riders over the years, very few have benefited from being thrown in at the deep end.  Sure, they have potential, but chucking them in against top riders usually does nothing other than destroy their confidence and end a promising career before it has even started.

Look what happened back in the 80's (I can't remember what year), when they introduced the "compulsory junior"; it achieved absolutely nothing.

Incidentally, please don't just claim that us "older fans" are "out of touch with things".  I am one of those, and I am only too aware that things have to change, but I just don't know what the solutions are....  What I do know is that throwing kids to the lions, and putting out a sub-standard team resulting in a tedious and one-sided match is not one of them.

Steve