chunky Posted August 17, 2018 Report Share Posted August 17, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Midland Red said: Why has the reason for attending changed so much - it was always the situation that (enter night applicable) was Speedway night, irrespective of the team's league position, or the opposition, it was to get our weekly fill and see "our team" - yes, it was good to win (happiness is 40-38) but it didn't really matter, or affect next week's attendance - probably only the two weeks annual holidays caused missing a home meeting Here I've just read that fans wouldn't attend a meeting if it only involved 4th and 5th in a non-play off league - does no one go to watch and enjoy Speedway racing anymore? Probably that's been lost due to lack of continuity of fixtures, lack of consistency of team makeup, doubling up/down The "good old days" WERE good - there don't seem to be many good days in 2018 - that's why some of us do look back to seek how to improve things But there does seem to be a different attitude from spectators, only winning matters now Thank you so much! I was wondering the exact same thing! Is the quality of racing really that irrelevant now? Is the desire to follow your team through thick and thin irrelevant now? People still go and watch other sports because they enjoy "watching", and because they enjoy being a part of it. Are speedway fans now that shallow that the result - and the quest for a playoff spot - is the only thing that matters? If that really is the case, there is no hope for civilisation in Britain, let alone speedway... Steve Edited August 18, 2018 by chunky 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted August 18, 2018 Report Share Posted August 18, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, theblueboy said: I can’t believe that some of my fellow posters cannot see what Orion is saying. Swindon won the league last season but Rosco has said publicly that they made a substantial loss. Now that could be £5k, it could be £50k but the bottom line is if the team that won the league lost money how did the other clubs make fare? If you are suggesting that the promoters have ‘business accumen’ then why do they continually make losses every season? Why do they have to continually dilute the product? We have lost Rye House this season, why is that? That doesn’t sound like they have much business acumen to me! Every year we have the same problems, the same arguments and its the promoters that are the problem. They have failed to move the sport with the times and think it’s acceptable to watch a professional sport with 21st century equipment whilst held in 1970’s stadia. Do you think football would be as popular if it were held in stadia and the pitches were similar to those in the 1970’s. Rugby league adapted. It couldn’t compete with football. They needed to change. So they moved it’s season to accommodate Sky, have a Magic Weekend, play on lovely pitches and it’s a fast paced sport. Far better than the crap that filled up Grandstand’s schedule from 15.55 - 16.40 when I was a boy in the 70’s when it was pouring with rain and Bradford Northern beat Featherstone 4-2 in a absolute hummdinger. Darts is another sport that was dying on its arse but has made a comeback. The issue lies squarely with the promoters but speedway has gone too far now. It’s dead in the water and there is no turning back. There is no infrastructure or thought process of where they are going or what they want to do. It’s hand to mouth every season with the promise of a new dawn. Its the promoters that have done everything on a fag packet not Orion. ...I agrre with much of what you say but Orion doesn't make a case, or give examples, on how speedway should or could move forward except he keeps quoting Play-Offs as like other sports (American Football and American Ice Hockey played in the States adopt a different system which is essentially a Knock Out system beyond the Conference League stage). Speedway's problems lay much deeper than that. Media coverage and hype has helped tremendously by pushing certain sports and despite SKY's involvement with speedway the same thing never happened. A missed opportunity and one has to ask the question why? I think that we all agree that speedway promoters have basically created issues within the sport with constantly altering formats and/or rules etc etc but the bottom line is that speedway appears to be going no where and in my view unless a Head of Administration is adopted (which is very unlikely) I can't see any progress. The sport needs a modern Mike Parker or John Berry to initiate a massive change but do the public, as a whole, now get excited about bikes going round in circles and environmental issues? Edited August 18, 2018 by steve roberts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spl77 Posted August 18, 2018 Report Share Posted August 18, 2018 The point that orion makes about the play offs bringing extra support and keeping the season alive is correct. However the extra numbers through the turnstiles for the playoffs mask the major issues speedway has. Because of the way the sport is set up to run with doubling up etc those new comers come to see the event and not to support the local team as there is no longer any bond between the riders and club and the wider local community. The extra numbers don't turn up again until the club reaches the play offs or a cup final again. Take Ipswich last season Foxhall was packed for the play off final v Peterborough the meeting was fantastic and the atmosphere was superb. That was my 2nd meeting of 2017 I and the old gang and several new comers made our group 21 strong. We couldn't explain to the newcomers that Nicholls had ridden for both teams in the final and that half the Ipswich team also rode for Leicester. This season none of the 21 have returned with the exception of myself who went along on Thursday with a work colleague to see Drew Kemp make his debut. After Thursdays going on its quite clear that in 2018 the riders don't give a s##t about the supporters and the clubs they see it just as a pay cheque. Add that to the shambles the BSPA have made of running the sport in the UK the out of control doubling up and guest situation. The whole thing is a recipe for disaster. The opinion of several on here is that the moaners and those wanting to turn the clock back have been watching speedway for 60 or 70 years and just want the old days back. Well I first went to Ipswich at the age of 11had years of following the team all over the country. As I said I attended twice last year and because of the farce of Thursday rain off ( cook and Schlien hold your heads in shame) have yet to see a meeting this year. I want the sport to become a proper team sport with no doubling up eventually no guests but in the mean time tight controls on guests. I want to see the value for money that used to be 22 or more heats at Ipswich every week circa 1989/1990 so turn the clock back a few years maybe. I'm not some old fuddie Duddie but the guy that the sport needs to win back. I'm 40 years old with 3 kids who I could take to speedway every week that's your next generation right there but I don't have the will to attend or part with my money on a regular basis due to the reasons above. Now those with rose tinted specs who think all is well and that the product is good...... Well there must be thousands like me. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted August 18, 2018 Report Share Posted August 18, 2018 17 minutes ago, Spl77 said: The point that orion makes about the play offs bringing extra support and keeping the season alive is correct. However the extra numbers through the turnstiles for the playoffs mask the major issues speedway has. Because of the way the sport is set up to run with doubling up etc those new comers come to see the event and not to support the local team as there is no longer any bond between the riders and club and the wider local community. The extra numbers don't turn up again until the club reaches the play offs or a cup final again. Take Ipswich last season Foxhall was packed for the play off final v Peterborough the meeting was fantastic and the atmosphere was superb. That was my 2nd meeting of 2017 I and the old gang and several new comers made our group 21 strong. We couldn't explain to the newcomers that Nicholls had ridden for both teams in the final and that half the Ipswich team also rode for Leicester. This season none of the 21 have returned with the exception of myself who went along on Thursday with a work colleague to see Drew Kemp make his debut. After Thursdays going on its quite clear that in 2018 the riders don't give a s##t about the supporters and the clubs they see it just as a pay cheque. Add that to the shambles the BSPA have made of running the sport in the UK the out of control doubling up and guest situation. The whole thing is a recipe for disaster. The opinion of several on here is that the moaners and those wanting to turn the clock back have been watching speedway for 60 or 70 years and just want the old days back. Well I first went to Ipswich at the age of 11had years of following the team all over the country. As I said I attended twice last year and because of the farce of Thursday rain off ( cook and Schlien hold your heads in shame) have yet to see a meeting this year. I want the sport to become a proper team sport with no doubling up eventually no guests but in the mean time tight controls on guests. I want to see the value for money that used to be 22 or more heats at Ipswich every week circa 1989/1990 so turn the clock back a few years maybe. I'm not some old fuddie Duddie but the guy that the sport needs to win back. I'm 40 years old with 3 kids who I could take to speedway every week that's your next generation right there but I don't have the will to attend or part with my money on a regular basis due to the reasons above. Now those with rose tinted specs who think all is well and that the product is good...... Well there must be thousands like me. And there was me thinking it was all good at Ipswich with the promotion doing a great job and the Ipswich fans flocking in! Clearly your Group of mates just want to see the big meetings, that won't keep the club alive! Bloody Ipswich haven't got to worry about doubling up, it's only Premiership clubs with those problems and guests have always been a thing in speedway, no fan would be happy to have an injured heat leader replaced with a number 8 after all etc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spl77 Posted August 18, 2018 Report Share Posted August 18, 2018 (edited) Far from it the doubling up and guest fest drove us away in the end! But funny how all I wrote became I only attend big meetings and no mention of why I no loner attend week in week out...... That's speedway issue all over The promotion are doing a good job especially the tie up with the football club. At the end of the day they can only promote the product which in 2018 is very poor relation of circa 1989. My opinion I know Edited August 18, 2018 by Spl77 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted August 18, 2018 Report Share Posted August 18, 2018 43 minutes ago, Spl77 said: I want to see the value for money that used to be 22 or more heats at Ipswich every week circa 1989/1990 so turn the clock back a few years maybe. I'm not some old fuddie Duddie but the guy that the sport needs to win back. I'm 40 years old with 3 kids who I could take to speedway every week that's your next generation right there but I don't have the will to attend or part with my money on a regular basis due to the reasons above. Now those with rose tinted specs who think all is well and that the product is good...... Well there must be thousands like me. Well said mate! I am sure you are right, there are many missing regularly like yourself who include the much needed next generation. I am a well turned off fan who has been watching in the previous 7 decades. That makes me an old moaner in the eyes of many who say I want the sport to turn back the clock. The only "turning back" I want is for speedway to give as much excitement on track as it used to do but the way it is run in the UK nowadays the only way is down. Down in interest by many and down in numbers paying to watch regularly as the last 10 years have shown. Av great pity as the sport could still have much to offer that " new generation " of fans. Can't see them finding out what it's all about though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted August 18, 2018 Report Share Posted August 18, 2018 17 minutes ago, Spl77 said: Far from it the doubling up and guest fest drove us away in the end! But funny how all I wrote became I only attend big meetings and no mention of why I no loner attend week in week out...... That's speedway issue all over The promotion are doing a good job especially the tie up with the football club. At the end of the day they can only promote the product which in 2018 is very poor relation of circa 1989. My opinion I know You said yourself the play off mtg last year was only your second mtg of the year, first for a load of your mates did u not? So why did you all turn up then, cos it was a biggie? Were there any double uppers n guests involved in the mtg, no doubt? Did it spoil the mtg or were you just cheering on the guys in red n blue? Everyone loves a play off as there is so much at stake but the clubs have to reach the them via the bread and butter mtgs, no doubling up isn't ideal but something I can put out of my mind when supporting the Stars 100% cos for that 2 hours they are my team, they are giving 100% effort for the Stars! There's nothing we can do about guests, injuries are part of the game, like I say what fan would be happy for a heat leaders' races to be taken by a junior? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted August 18, 2018 Report Share Posted August 18, 2018 9 minutes ago, waytogo28 said: Well said mate! I am sure you are right, there are many missing regularly like yourself who include the much needed next generation. I am a well turned off fan who has been watching in the previous 7 decades. That makes me an old moaner in the eyes of many who say I want the sport to turn back the clock. The only "turning back" I want is for speedway to give as much excitement on track as it used to do but the way it is run in the UK nowadays the only way is down. Down in interest by many and down in numbers paying to watch regularly as the last 10 years have shown. Av great pity as the sport could still have much to offer that " new generation " of fans. Can't see them finding out what it's all about though. Handicap racing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted August 18, 2018 Report Share Posted August 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, Trees said: Handicap racing? Just posted in No Word from the BSPA, agreeing with you as to what is needed. handicap racing ( whether riders like it or not ) and standardised bikes. Must give the paying punters more of interest and thrills on track, if there is any hope of attracting new ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spl77 Posted August 18, 2018 Report Share Posted August 18, 2018 33 minutes ago, Trees said: You said yourself the play off mtg last year was only your second mtg of the year, first for a load of your mates did u not? So why did you all turn up then, cos it was a biggie? Were there any double uppers n guests involved in the mtg, no doubt? Did it spoil the mtg or were you just cheering on the guys in red n blue? Everyone loves a play off as there is so much at stake but the clubs have to reach the them via the bread and butter mtgs, no doubling up isn't ideal but something I can put out of my mind when supporting the Stars 100% cos for that 2 hours they are my team, they are giving 100% effort for the Stars! There's nothing we can do about guests, injuries are part of the game, like I say what fan would be happy for a heat leaders' races to be taken by a junior? Yep and the first was a damp nasty evening in April with about 800 others. The nothing we can do about it because it's speedway is the fundamental reason its a mess here. No its speedway so let's have guests in Poland they have a successful product moved with the times and run professionally. Regarding the play off final we went for the event rather than select team A or B. It's great that you can over look doubling up and guest fest and the 7 in the green and yellow are your team for the night. The problem is that myself and an ever increasing number can't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted August 18, 2018 Report Share Posted August 18, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Spl77 said: The point that orion makes about the play offs bringing extra support and keeping the season alive is correct. However the extra numbers through the turnstiles for the playoffs mask the major issues speedway has. Because of the way the sport is set up to run with doubling up etc those new comers come to see the event and not to support the local team as there is no longer any bond between the riders and club and the wider local community. The extra numbers don't turn up again until the club reaches the play offs or a cup final again. Take Ipswich last season Foxhall was packed for the play off final v Peterborough the meeting was fantastic and the atmosphere was superb. That was my 2nd meeting of 2017 I and the old gang and several new comers made our group 21 strong. We couldn't explain to the newcomers that Nicholls had ridden for both teams in the final and that half the Ipswich team also rode for Leicester. This season none of the 21 have returned with the exception of myself who went along on Thursday with a work colleague to see Drew Kemp make his debut. After Thursdays going on its quite clear that in 2018 the riders don't give a s##t about the supporters and the clubs they see it just as a pay cheque. Add that to the shambles the BSPA have made of running the sport in the UK the out of control doubling up and guest situation. The whole thing is a recipe for disaster. The opinion of several on here is that the moaners and those wanting to turn the clock back have been watching speedway for 60 or 70 years and just want the old days back. Well I first went to Ipswich at the age of 11had years of following the team all over the country. As I said I attended twice last year and because of the farce of Thursday rain off ( cook and Schlien hold your heads in shame) have yet to see a meeting this year. I want the sport to become a proper team sport with no doubling up eventually no guests but in the mean time tight controls on guests. I want to see the value for money that used to be 22 or more heats at Ipswich every week circa 1989/1990 so turn the clock back a few years maybe. I'm not some old fuddie Duddie but the guy that the sport needs to win back. I'm 40 years old with 3 kids who I could take to speedway every week that's your next generation right there but I don't have the will to attend or part with my money on a regular basis due to the reasons above. Now those with rose tinted specs who think all is well and that the product is good...... Well there must be thousands like me. I don't think anybody really doubts that the Play-Offs apparently attract good numbers but those numbers need to be replicated during the season if speedway is to move on. Edited August 18, 2018 by steve roberts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted August 18, 2018 Report Share Posted August 18, 2018 13 minutes ago, steve roberts said: I want to see the value for money that used to be 22 or more heats at Ipswich every week circa 1989/1990 so turn the clock back a few years maybe. I'm not some old fuddie Duddie but the guy that the sport needs to win back. I'm 40 years old with 3 kids who I could take to speedway every week that's your next generation right there but I don't have the will to attend or part with my money on a regular basis due to the reasons above. Now those with rose tinted specs who think all is well and that the product is good...... Well there must be thousands like me. Are you gonna sponsor a second half competition then to make it 22 heats, the promoters don't make enough money it seems to afford to pay the riders for a second half... All these old companies with bosses who supported speedway have retired/died, it's hard to find new companies to chuck their money into speedway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted August 18, 2018 Report Share Posted August 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, Trees said: Are you gonna sponsor a second half competition then to make it 22 heats, the promoters don't make enough money it seems to afford to pay the riders for a second half... All these old companies with bosses who supported speedway have retired/died, it's hard to find new companies to chuck their money into speedway? Hi Trees...wasn't my particular observation but you have some good points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted August 18, 2018 Report Share Posted August 18, 2018 Just now, steve roberts said: Hi Trees...wasn't my particular observation but you have some good points. I know you didn't write it, it's cos I copied and pasted it from your posting, sorry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinny Posted August 18, 2018 Report Share Posted August 18, 2018 Imagine how doomed the Premiership would be if there were no play offs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rabbit Posted August 18, 2018 Report Share Posted August 18, 2018 2 hours ago, Trees said: You said yourself the play off mtg last year was only your second mtg of the year, first for a load of your mates did u not? So why did you all turn up then, cos it was a biggie? Were there any double uppers n guests involved in the mtg, no doubt? Did it spoil the mtg or were you just cheering on the guys in red n blue? Everyone loves a play off as there is so much at stake but the clubs have to reach the them via the bread and butter mtgs, no doubling up isn't ideal but something I can put out of my mind when supporting the Stars 100% cos for that 2 hours they are my team, they are giving 100% effort for the Stars! There's nothing we can do about guests, injuries are part of the game, like I say what fan would be happy for a heat leaders' races to be taken by a junior? They wouldn't be taken by a junior, they'd be taken by the next highest average rider in the team. The junior would take the #7's rides and, as far as I know, isn't programmed to ride against the opposing #1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spl77 Posted August 18, 2018 Report Share Posted August 18, 2018 34 minutes ago, Trees said: Are you gonna sponsor a second half competition then to make it 22 heats, the promoters don't make enough money it seems to afford to pay the riders for a second half... All these old companies with bosses who supported speedway have retired/died, it's hard to find new companies to chuck their money into speedway? Honestly no I'm not. However the time has come for the sport to become semi pro and have standard bikes in all UK racing. If the sport wasn't paying wages to full time riders to fund rocketship equipment that the sport clearly cannot afford maybe the promoter's could afford to run a proper programme of entertainment or cut the admission to reflect 15 heats thank you now go home. It would appear that the time has come for me to accept that the sport will get no better and will ultimately die out in the UK. While remembering the great times I had following my team and speedway in general from the late 80s to the mid 2000s while going every now and then if i fancy a night at speedway watching the event rather than having a team to get behind. And those like trees who are happy having 7 riders committed to there team for a couple of hours a week well they can still enjoy that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted August 18, 2018 Report Share Posted August 18, 2018 45 minutes ago, Spl77 said: It would appear that the time has come for me to accept that the sport will get no better and will ultimately die out in the UK. Regrettably, I have come to the same conclusion. I had the pain of losing "my" team Norwich Stars when they closed down at the Firs. And the joy of opening at King's Lynn where a group of us followed the Stars from Norwich for every match. Even when I went to college in Leicester I supported the Stars from there, when I could, and when I took a job in Northampton I went over to Saddlebow Road very regularly. There were some great times ( home and away ) with heroes like Terry Betts, Tiddler Turner , Michael Lee and even watching Darcy Ward and Tai Woffinden in the NL. Fantastic memories right through until that young lad Robert Lambert arrived ( to give me my latest and perhaps last heroic racer to watch ). Now that he has come of age ( as a rider ) the way that KL is now run ( and UK speedway in general ) does not appeal to me much. Culminating in the latest sin of doubleheaders V the same team which I am sure most fans do not find very appealing. Mind you in the last 70 years it has become so much more watchable on TV ( for me, better than being there now that in stadium atmosphere has almost vanished ) Swings and roundabouts and Ove Fundin remains for me the ultimate speedway rider since I witnessed his arrival at Norwich all those years ago. Now it's nearly died out as you say. Last legs at least! And Yes, Dinosaurs are dying out too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midland Red Posted August 18, 2018 Report Share Posted August 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Pinny said: Imagine how doomed the Premiership would be if there were no play offs. Play offs have coincided with a downturn in interest in the rest of the domestic season This shows how spectator attitudes have changed, as I alluded to earlier They have also coincided with, and generated, a move away from entertainment for the spectators, replaced by rule-bending, greedy and selfish attitudes of certain individuals, on both sides of the safety fence "Let's get away with 10 heats" seems to be the norm now, rather than provide an evening's entertainment of 20+ races 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinny Posted August 18, 2018 Report Share Posted August 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, Midland Red said: Play offs have coincided with a downturn in interest in the rest of the domestic season This shows how spectator attitudes have changed, as I alluded to earlier They have also coincided with, and generated, a move away from entertainment for the spectators, replaced by rule-bending, greedy and selfish attitudes of certain individuals, on both sides of the safety fence "Let's get away with 10 heats" seems to be the norm now, rather than provide an evening's entertainment of 20+ races No, the watering down of the league has coincided with the lack of interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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