The continuing decline of Speedway

[Skid Sprocket]

41 minutes ago, Grachan said:

 

Ice Hockey has play-offs, but they don't decide the league champions.

The league champions are the team who finish top of the league table, and the winners of the play-offs are the Play Off Champions.

For example: 2016-17: Cardiff were League Champions and Sheffield were Play-Off Champions. Last year Cardiff won both.

 

Exactly as it should be in speedway.  It is a travesty of justice for a team to fight all season to get to the top and have it all taken away in one meeting.  League Champions top Play Off Champions second.

[Spl77]

Speedway star 28th July had a couple of fabulous quotes from Rob Godfrey. "you can't have 99% of the league clubs all racing on the same night, it's ludicrous. Followed by" people can slag me off but it's BSPA protocol that's needs to be adhered to." 

Now two points if the BSPA hadn't made the sport so reliant on guests you could have most teams running on the same day the guest rule in itself is ludicrous. Second BSPA protocol? Didn't realise that such a thing existed! 

[Pieman72]

After reading the banter I can only come to one conclusion speedway as we know it is finished. 

[moxey63]

I have always disliked the Play-Offs. For starters, they bullied the once prestigious Knock-Out Cup from its slot as speedway's showpiece aggregate competition. As the KOC Final always had October billing, another aggregate competition (the POs) carrying more clout and at the same time of the season, naturally dwarfed it. The POs all but killed the KOC. Secondly, and it's only a personal slant, they sort of made most of the league fixtures for the first two to three months sort of practice sessions, as Poole have proved this season, to fine-tune your side with the sole aim of making the top four, and then being as strong as possible once there. It is all about timing. A third thing I think Play-offs have taken away is the surety that all clubs actually have meaningful fixture plans in the last month of the season. As I see it, since the POs were introduced, the season is like a cinema after the main show has ended and all the pieces of popcorn and candy wrappers lie on the floor. They are the speedway fixtures of October. That is what the final month of the season seems like to me. Just seems a bit unbalanced to have Play-Offs and then a whole month of unimportant fixtures to try to temp fans from their warm homes on the chilly nights. I always forget other fixtures are taking place in October. And, as has been mentioned on here, speedway must be one of the only sports where the league title is decided by Play-Offs, even possibly by sides who didn't even finish first or second.    

Edited August 6, 2018 by moxey63

[Grachan]

Rugby Union has play-offs to decide the champions.

[ouch]

With regards to the play offs you cannot compare speedway to any other team sport. 

Common practise now is for teams to (purposely?) start slow, thus reducing their team average which then offers them the opportunity to build back up. In other sports this wouldn’t happen as they aren’t ruled by points and anyway if say Stockport County signed Ronaldo then they wouldn’t suddenly become favourites as in that sport it’s very much a collective effort - simultaneously. 

In speedway you can replace a low scorer with a high scorer and the difference is instant with a massive impact. 

Speedway is a different beast and this is unfortunately lost on those who wield the power who come up with ideas without fully investigating there impact. 

 

[moxey63]

9 minutes ago, ouch said:

With regards to the play offs you cannot compare speedway to any other team sport. 

Common practise now is for teams to (purposely?) start slow, thus reducing their team average which then offers them the opportunity to build back up. In other sports this wouldn’t happen as they aren’t ruled by points and anyway if say Stockport County signed Ronaldo then they wouldn’t suddenly become favourites as in that sport it’s very much a collective effort - simultaneously. 

In speedway you can replace a low scorer with a high scorer and the difference is instant with a massive impact. 

Speedway is a different beast and this is unfortunately lost on those who wield the power who come up with ideas without fully investigating there impact. 

 

I never watch the garbage, but it's a bit like those talent shows that Simon Cowell cranks out. You start off with acts that have no chance of winning the series and then, as the weeks go on, the better acts lie in wait. Then the serious stuff begins, the weak tail off and, as if scripted, the winner comes from... er.. usually Poole.

Edited August 6, 2018 by moxey63

[topaz325]

Will all the Speedway fixtures be completed by September 9th to meet the Play off criteria.

[mikebv]

8 hours ago, Spl77 said:

Speedway star 28th July had a couple of fabulous quotes from Rob Godfrey. "you can't have 99% of the league clubs all racing on the same night, it's ludicrous. Followed by" people can slag me off but it's BSPA protocol that's needs to be adhered to." 

Now two points if the BSPA hadn't made the sport so reliant on guests you could have most teams running on the same day the guest rule in itself is ludicrous. Second BSPA protocol? Didn't realise that such a thing existed! 

Surely more 'ludicrous' is facilitating a fixture list to allow teams to race on different nights to simply just allow teams to share competitors, as well as let ringers be brought in for or a myriad of reasons, with all the nonsense that this comes with...?

If nothing else though, these comments do tend to confirm that those who run the Sport in Britain have effectively given up on ever running its various competitions with credibility...

Its probably 'ludicrous' too for fans of the Sport to expect it to be ran like a 'proper Sport' would be...?

Still, at least those who still attend now know what to expect and shouldnt therefore complain....

As, by attending, you give 100% endorsement to what you are having put out in front of you...

[orion]

13 hours ago, Skid Sprocket said:

Exactly as it should be in speedway.  It is a travesty of justice for a team to fight all season to get to the top and have it all taken away in one meeting.  League Champions top Play Off Champions second.

They all know rules in the first so it's not ...no one is upset or feels it's  a travesty anymore ….As for a place off cup it's been said a million times that no fans turn for them and clubs lose money ..we have  had the craven shield and the jack young cup at pl level and both were a financial disaster .

The trouble with these subjects is that the normal suspects turn up ..people who have not gone for 15 years who are between 60 -70 years old .they try to make out they want the best for speedway but really want the rules and things back when they went  like no plays off and one off world finals etc etc 

 

[KevH]

On 8/5/2018 at 10:07 PM, Starman2006 said:

What you failed to mention though was the play off's weather permitting bring in clubs biggest crowds of the season, so they clearly do work. Problem is, enticing people through the gate for the rest of it.

Just a thought, but if the rest of the season had meaningful meetings (i.e. not play-off qualifiers), crowds could be increased in twelve (not two) meetings throughout the season :/

[orion]

6 minutes ago, KevH said:

Just a thought, but if the rest of the season had meaningful meetings (i.e. not play-off qualifiers), crowds could be increased in twelve (not two) meetings throughout the season :/

Why would they  be more meaningful ? it's stands to reason with out play offs there would  be a lot less ..if team went clear after 6 weeks there would nothing more to race for and crowds would be even lower 

Edited August 6, 2018 by orion

[KevH]

3 minutes ago, orion said:

Why would they  be more meaningful ? it's stands to reason with out play offs there would  be a lot less ..if team went clear after 6 weeks there would nothing more to race for and crowds would be even lower 

I was just playing devils advocate.......I have no idea what the answer is, or even if there is one!!

[steve roberts]

9 hours ago, orion said:

They all know rules in the first so it's not ...no one is upset or feels it's  a travesty anymore ….As for a place off cup it's been said a million times that no fans turn for them and clubs lose money ..we have  had the craven shield and the jack young cup at pl level and both were a financial disaster .

The trouble with these subjects is that the normal suspects turn up ..people who have not gone for 15 years who are between 60 -70 years old .they try to make out they want the best for speedway but really want the rules and things back when they went  like no plays off and one off world finals etc etc 

 

...yes the seventies when speedway enjoyed coverage in the mass media and terrestrial TV and attracted thousands of people instead of hundreds and England ruled and teams filled with British riders and the Second Division was a conveyor belt for developing talent. 

Comparing speedway to football and the Play-Off system as your earlier post highlighted is a totally different scenario as has been pointed out. Tweaking and playing about with rules and the unavailability, or indeed unwillingness, of some riders from competing in Britain won't encourage new fans to the sport hence the continuing decline. Not forgetting the impact that the GP's have created regarding the domestic programme over the years despite it's good (?) intentions.

Edited August 7, 2018 by steve roberts

[orion]

2 hours ago, steve roberts said:

...yes the seventies when speedway enjoyed coverage in the mass media and terrestrial TV and attracted thousands of people instead of hundreds and England ruled and teams filled with British riders and the Second Division was a conveyor belt for developing talent. 

Comparing speedway to football and the Play-Off system as your earlier post highlighted is a totally different scenario as has been pointed out. Tweaking and playing about with rules and the unavailability, or indeed unwillingness, of some riders from competing in Britain won't encourage new fans to the sport hence the continuing decline. Not forgetting the impact that the GP's have created regarding the domestic programme over the years despite it's good (?) intentions.

I compared speedway to every other sport that has play offs and all of them are a massive success but somehow if we don't have them in speedway  all the crowds will come back and like the numbers that has flocked back now that we don't have double points ...as i said these topics are always clog up with oap' s who  go back to the past with rules and things that won't work in the modern age  .Times have changed sadly speedway and its fans have not .

[winstoncigar]

15 minutes ago, orion said:

I compared speedway to every other sport that has play offs and all of them are a massive success but somehow if we don't have them in speedway  all the crowds will come back and like the numbers that has flocked back now that we don't have double points ...as i said these topics are always clog up with oap' s who  go back to the past with rules and things that won't work in the modern age  .Times have changed sadly speedway and its fans have not .

You've hit the nail on the head. Can you seriously imagine young fans standing on the terraces filling in programs the way we used to (still do)? They want electronic timing, fastest laps, big screen replays, modern looking bikes, manufacturer imputs etc etc

[steve roberts]

33 minutes ago, orion said:

I compared speedway to every other sport that has play offs and all of them are a massive success but somehow if we don't have them in speedway  all the crowds will come back and like the numbers that has flocked back now that we don't have double points ...as i said these topics are always clog up with oap' s who  go back to the past with rules and things that won't work in the modern age  .Times have changed sadly speedway and its fans have not .

...your comparison with Play Offs was primarily about football. Totally different scenario. Football will always be successful due to the massive media attention it receives and constant brainwashing. Whatever speedway comes up with it will never be able to compete on equal terms.

Interesting your comment about rule changes but speedway ran along quite successfully with little manipulation and/or changes to the rule book. The constant changing of race formula, points limits etc etc during the late eighties was one of many factors that caused the gradual decline of the sport. It's obvious that changes haven't brought the necessary crowds back to speedway despite suggesting that times have changed and speedway needs to move on.

Personally I feel that the sport has reached a level that is unsustainable and all the tweaking will not alter that.

[steve roberts]

1 hour ago, winstoncigar said:

You've hit the nail on the head. Can you seriously imagine young fans standing on the terraces filling in programs the way we used to (still do)? They want electronic timing, fastest laps, big screen replays, modern looking bikes, manufacturer imputs etc etc

 

Personally I feel that many youngsters are just not interested in attractions and/or sports (there was an interesting post earlier regarding younger fans and football) as previous generations once were. I work within tourism and unfortunately many museums have now had to 'dumb down' to accommodate the short attention spell of youngsters generally as well as their parents in some instances. If it's not about pressing buttons they're not interested and you sense the boredom and general apathy all around you.

You'd be amazed the number of times I've attempted to grab the attention of school parties where many of them are plainly ignoring me whilst staring into their personal devices...despite it supposing to being an educational visit and of course their supervisors often do nothing to help matters!

The price we have to pay unfortunately whereby technology rules over many other things in life. My motto is "I control technology and where I wish to engage but I don't allow it to control me"

Edited August 7, 2018 by steve roberts

[Aces51]

12 hours ago, orion said:

Why would they  be more meaningful ? it's stands to reason with out play offs there would  be a lot less ..if team went clear after 6 weeks there would nothing more to race for and crowds would be even lower 

That isn't how it was in the pre play off days. Yes, fans wanted to finish top of the league but with a league of 16 - 19 teams that wasn't the only interest just as it isn't now in the football PL. Interest was retained because it was an achievement to finish in the top 3, because you wanted your team to finish higher than your local rivals or the teams you disliked or because you wanted to avoid the wooden spoon. Just as in the football PL you had an expectation for your team, which wasn't necessarily that they would finish top or thereabouts and the interest was in watching to see if they could achieve your expectation or hopefully, exceed it. 

With play offs the interest isn't there until about this time of year when the real fight for a play off place begins. In fact, as Mark Lemon has highlighted, there is an argument not to do well in the earlier part of the season to drop below the team building total and give yourself opportunities to replace original team members with better riders at the business end. Fans know that meetings in the first half of the season are often meaningless and some pick and choose or wait until they become more important before spending their hard earned money. People will always point to the attendance for the play offs as the justification for them. Those attendances are not what they were and what we need to be looking at is the attendance figures over the season not a few meetings at the end. If we hope to attract people to the sport we have to ensure that every meeting or, at least, as many as possible have relevance and importance. If they don't matter many fans won't be bothered about attending.

[The Cheese]

On the subject of play-offs not deciding league winners in football.. it does happen in countries such as Australia and the USA.