The continuing decline of Speedway

[steve roberts]

14 hours ago, moxey63 said:

Oh no... a speedway fan and model railways. 

...the difference, of course. being is that I only engage with areas of new technology that I find useful rather than allowing technology to dictate which often involves having to spend hundreds of pounds on something that you may never use, or indeed, require but it's all about "Keeping up with the Jones" 

Thankfully I'm above all of that. It was interesting to see that books sales are up depite the advent of kindle which many 'experts' envisaged would bring about the demise of books....and I have hundreds of books which I consult.

Edited July 27, 2018 by steve roberts

[moxey63]

Same with the Play-Off Final... do they charge extra for those matches. Surely if they had fans in mind, they'd set up some kind of loyalty system in which actually attending all the dross served up in the actual league programme to get to the POs. Surely attending every home match of the 18 or so league fixture warrants some form of loyalty payback, not pumping admission up for the semis and final.

As for promoters and their famous "If you don't like it" retort. I have just been looking at some watches online. Some of the feedback was quite straight to the point and not very nice really. But they received a nice reply thanking them for their feedback and that they take it into consideration. Not "If you don't like the watch, don't buy from us again."

There comes a point in most fans' experiences where they feel the sport or the club has taken the pee just one time too much. It's a build up of various things.

This may get people's backs up, but I really wish speedway would fail to the point that all this talk of having to do something to save it actually comes to something. Talk is fine at the winter congress, the promise of a radical new approach. And then we have memories of Swindon v Leicester from last Monday....      

[moxey63]

10 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

...the difference, of course. being is that I only engage with areas of new technology that I find useful rather than allowing technology to dictate which often involves having to spend hundreds of pounds on something that you may never use, or indeed, require but it's all about "Keeping up with the Jones" 

Thankfully I'm above all of that. It was interesting to see that books sales are up depute the advent of kindle which many 'experts' envisaged would bring about the demise of books..

I am exactly like you, Steve. Just can't get used to mobile phones or tablet for the internet, rather stay on my desktop system.

[Ghostwalker]

IMO Thornaby have a point when it comes to R/R, tactical subs, joker double points and guests and no mid-season transfer windows.
These are rules that I think need to be removed. I want 6 or 7 riders doing four heats each + nomination heats. Like Thornaby says, keep it simple.
I do however disagree about his aversion against modern things such as phone apps, social media and etc. Those are essential in the 21st century.
 

[Spl77]

The most annoying aspect of all is clearly there are people out there who are happy and want to be involved in the sport so they must see a future. We have Guy Nicholls who is very successful in his field at Ipswich as a sponsor aswell as supporting a host of riders. Love him or hate Ford at Poole BT sport who made that cracking true grit documentary and the guy interviewed in the speedway star who was involved with Olympics sorry his name escapes me. The point is surely there are enough people with the desire because they are fans of the sport to rescue it. I think this winter will truly be last chance salon. 

[cityrebel]

It's probably already too late for some clubs.

[GWC]

10 minutes ago, cityrebel said:

It's probably already too late for some clubs.

When you say too late does that mean they are no longer able to attract a paying crowd to support their business?

[topaz325]

4 minutes ago, GWC said:

When you say too late does that mean they are no longer able to attract a paying crowd to support their business?

For quite a few years now.

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

3 hours ago, Spl77 said:

The most annoying aspect of all is clearly there are people out there who are happy and want to be involved in the sport so they must see a future. We have Guy Nicholls who is very successful in his field at Ipswich as a sponsor aswell as supporting a host of riders. Love him or hate Ford at Poole BT sport who made that cracking true grit documentary and the guy interviewed in the speedway star who was involved with Olympics sorry his name escapes me. The point is surely there are enough people with the desire because they are fans of the sport to rescue it. I think this winter will truly be last chance salon. 

Guy Nicholls has been quite clear that the reason he hasnt bought a speedway club is that he doesnt feel he would have the autonomy to run it the way he feels would be best due to the structure and decision making process as it is

Is that likely to change?

Speedway is lucky to have the likes of Guy in whatever form that investment takes

[moxey63]

Speedway needs to cut its costs. Full stop. When Tai Woffinden says he'd have to take something like a 90% pay cut to race in England compared to Poland, you'd be daft to prick up your ears and wonder where British speedway has gone wrong. Personally, I recall being amazed when hearing Bruce Penhall had a host of bikes when he came over in 1978. I know the top boys over here probably likewise. But rewind just six or so years to 1971, when leading rider Malcolm Simmons admitted his upturn in form was down to finally having the first ever all-new machine in his care of approximately eight years or so. He was 25. Now, let's return to 2018, all the glam that has to go with the sport. I bet a young up-and-comer would be seen dead in someone else's old hand me downs. Poland and Sweden won't always offer that pot of gold, but in the meantime, we should make honey from these so-called stars not wishing to ride here and create something in which, you know what, we won't really miss them. Money talks, and I feel British speedway doesn't need that kind of rider right now. the mistake of was actually letting them use Britain as a cross-over point to other jaunts in the first place.

Edited July 28, 2018 by moxey63

[molly1]

The item above is so correct all we see is riders double up in the top 2 leagues , the premiership is a joke the majority of riders also ride in the championship apart from the likes of Thorshell , NKI, Lambert ,R etc what i see is majority of Aussies ride in both leagues, question is this to attract them to UK instead of staying at home and earning money ?  The quicker we get back to one rider one team for the season British talent may get a chance to come to the fore and we can do better at international level.

[Spl77]

18 hours ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

Guy Nicholls has been quite clear that the reason he hasnt bought a speedway club is that he doesnt feel he would have the autonomy to run it the way he feels would be best due to the structure and decision making process as it is

Is that likely to change?

Speedway is lucky to have the likes of Guy in whatever form that investment takes

That's what I was getting at the BSPA need to wake up and accept that they can no longer run the sport and that an independent body is required to control the sport. That way you may be people like Guy Nicholls would look at being more involved knowing the framework wouldn't change each year due to self interest. I know the argument that the promoter's put the money up and so they should control it to protect their investment. However we are now at the point that if the bsap carry on the sport will be dead money so their money is lost. Let an independent body take over best case they turn the sport around there by the promoter's still have a business to run worse case? Well they can't save it the sport dies and the promoter's no longer have a business.... We'll they are well on the road to that anyway seems they have nothing to loose. 

[MattK]

11 minutes ago, Spl77 said:

That's what I was getting at the BSPA need to wake up and accept that they can no longer run the sport and that an independent body is required to control the sport. That way you may be people like Guy Nicholls would look at being more involved knowing the framework wouldn't change each year due to self interest. I know the argument that the promoter's put the money up and so they should control it to protect their investment. However we are now at the point that if the bsap carry on the sport will be dead money so their money is lost. Let an independent body take over best case they turn the sport around there by the promoter's still have a business to run worse case? Well they can't save it the sport dies and the promoter's no longer have a business.... We'll they are well on the road to that anyway seems they have nothing to loose. 

Can you give some examples of decisions an independent body would have made which would have been different to the BSPA?

How would an independent body give someone like Guy Nicholls the autonomy to run a club the way he see fit?

[Spl77]

1 minute ago, MattK said:

Can you give some examples of decisions an independent body would have made which would have been different to the BSPA?

How would an independent body give someone like Guy Nicholls the autonomy to run a club the way he see fit?

I very much doubt that an independent body would have allowed doubling up and down the golden double and the constant rule changes every winter and sometimes mid season for the benefit of one or two clubs let alone what appears to be change of heart on averages every other month. They would however form a league structure and a rule book that wouldn't change every year. This wouldn't allow total  autonomy for someone like Guy Nicholls but would at least allow for a 4 5 or even 10 year business plan to be put in place at those tracks that wished to run their business that way.

[Ghostwalker]

The rules for the Swedish leagues change every winter despite that Svemo is in charge. Allot of the rule changes are suggestions from
the clubs in one way or another and then Svemo implements them. Before last season teams had agreed on to have three Swedish riders
in the line-ups but Anders Fröjd decided that he only wanted two and threatened to pull out of ESS (similar to BSPA) if he didn't  get his will through.
The other clubs then chickened out and accepted his demand.

[Grachan]

1 hour ago, MattK said:

Can you give some examples of decisions an independent body would have made which would have been different to the BSPA?

How would an independent body give someone like Guy Nicholls the autonomy to run a club the way he see fit?

I don't jnow who Guy Nicholls is, but the big problem with the BSPA is that all the teams vote for themselves, so the weaker teams vote down the standard each year to try and give themselves a better chance.

This happens year after year. This year's fix nights of Thursday being voted out by the weaker league should also never have been allowed to happen.

It just needs someone more objective making decisions, rather than teams voting for themselves.

[Grand Central]

1 hour ago, MattK said:

Can you give some examples of decisions an independent body would have made which would have been different to the BSPA?

How would an independent body give someone like Guy Nicholls the autonomy to run a club the way he see fit?

This is an excellent point.

The constantly advocated panacea of an independent body is bogus.

The mere fact of it being independent would not produce the BETTER decision making needed. Any individual picked is JUST as likely to have advocated and pursued policies identical to those of the BSPA. Incrementally year by year

I don't think there is any liklehood that we would suddenly have hit upon a genius to help, where they collective of the promoters failed. Just-like-that. The problems are much deeper than such simplistic thinking

I'd need to hear something pretty revolutionary from such a guru to believe they would be any better at all tbh.

[Grand Central]

31 minutes ago, Grachan said:

I don't jnow who Guy Nicholls is, but the big problem with the BSPA is that all the teams vote for themselves, so the weaker teams vote down the standard each year to try and give themselves a better chance.

This happens year after year. This year's fix nights of Thursday being voted out by the weaker league should also never have been allowed to happen.

It just needs someone more objective making decisions, rather than teams voting for themselves.

Yes but that individual would have needed to come to the conclusion you prefer.

My guess is that the independent person is just have likely to have given preference to the Championship teams on Thursdays if it meant saving them. He may have thought that more important.

It is just wishful thinking that the guy chosen would suddenly choose the 'right' path as you (or anyone else) might see it. He would just as easily go the opposite way.

Edited July 29, 2018 by Grand Central

[Hawk127]

Without Guy Nicholls and his Tru7 Group who sponsor the witches, the chances are Ipswich would find it difficult to run.

Despite so many decent ideas being thrown into the pot, few on the forum will reach a consensus as to the way forward and with the ‘franchise’ mentality of those running their clubs and reasonable sums of money being put in by primarily local businesses sponsoring local clubs, is it any wonder the current business model is a failure with so much local self interest

Perhaps it needs such a major change to fix speedway and that may drive away the dwindling fan base yet I suspect no one has deep enough pockets to take the gamble unless you give tracks an open licence to experiment but that would also mean no league racing.

Radical changes such as dropping league racing should be considered by those clubs who cannot afford to run a team sport rather than expect the majority to fall into line with the minority. To owners and promoters perhaps you should cut your cloth accordingly and start thinking of the sport as a whole and not your own little silo.

[topsoil]

20 hours ago, moxey63 said:

Speedway needs to cut its costs. Full stop. When Tai Woffinden says he'd have to take something like a 90% pay cut to race in England compared to Poland, you'd be daft to prick up your ears and wonder where British speedway has gone wrong. Personally, I recall being amazed when hearing Bruce Penhall had a host of bikes when he came over in 1978. I know the top boys over here probably likewise. But rewind just six or so years to 1971, when leading rider Malcolm Simmons admitted his upturn in form was down to finally having the first ever all-new machine in his care of approximately eight years or so. He was 25. Now, let's return to 2018, all the glam that has to go with the sport. I bet a young up-and-comer would be seen dead in someone else's old hand me downs. Poland and Sweden won't always offer that pot of gold, but in the meantime, we should make honey from these so-called stars not wishing to ride here and create something in which, you know what, we won't really miss them. Money talks, and I feel British speedway doesn't need that kind of rider right now. the mistake of was actually letting them use Britain as a cross-over point to other jaunts in the first place.

The kind of belief I've had for years. There is no way Britain can compete with Poland right now financially and if it did try to, if would be suicide. So start your own production line and get younger, cheaper, local riders, who young fans can relate to. Then if they go off and seek their fortune, you just get the next one off the line.

Rugby league has done it for years. Losing their star players to the NRL of rugby union. Does it worry them? Never. They just replace them with the next youngster coming through. 

Every club should have a youth system after meetings. Give them as much track time as possible. Become self-sufficient and keep costs down that way.