The continuing decline of Speedway

[Humphrey Appleby]

16 minutes ago, Big Al said:

Yes, it is a great pity that companies like BSI saw opportunities and took them, and the BSPA didn't, but the ship left port long ago and whilst the FIM regards these organisations favourably, it would unfortunately be detrimental to the UK for their events to be blocked out and to become more isolated.

Nothing to do with blocking out BSI or whoever. If those sort of promoters want to stage events on their own volition in Britain then good luck to them, apart from the issues that the wider sport might want to consider. 

But British speedway certainly shouldn't be spending money chasing these sorts of events unless they get some sort of no risk return from them. Most members of the public would sadly have no clue who Lambert, Bewley and even Woffinden are. 

[Thornaby48]

The last thing we want in speed way is to use the word "circus", that gives the impression that the sport cannot be taken seriously. Why not return to the successful 1970's  with 13 heat TEAM match followed by a couple reserve races for the up and coming and the individual Rider of the Night races for all and sundry perhaps counting towards an end of season grand final. Bring back the SIlver Sash match races as well. How is that for a variety?

What we have to appreciate that when a business loses its customers they are very difficult to bring back. Forget the old fans  they will return in time, I did after 14 years, concentrate on attracting new fans.

In the mean time sort out the guest rider problem, look at refining the r/r system  with no. 8  riders, encouraging local New riders  ,organise an attractive league, the use of tac subs  etc. and start next year anew.

[moxey63]

13 minutes ago, Thornaby48 said:

The last thing we want in speed way is to use the word "circus", that gives the impression that the sport cannot be taken seriously. Why not return to the successful 1970's  with 13 heat TEAM match followed by a couple reserve races for the up and coming and the individual Rider of the Night races for all and sundry perhaps counting towards an end of season grand final. Bring back the SIlver Sash match races as well. How is that for a variety?

What we have to appreciate that when a business loses its customers they are very difficult to bring back. Forget the old fans  they will return in time, I did after 14 years, concentrate on attracting new fans.

In the mean time sort out the guest rider problem, look at refining the r/r system  with no. 8  riders, encouraging local New riders  ,organise an attractive league, the use of tac subs  etc. and start next year anew.

8

I was just saying the same thing. When something isn't right, then perhaps it's best reverting back to when it was. I know the crowds aren't there, but 13 heats is just enough to watch a meeting. Take the other night, the BT match that dragged on. Anything over 13 races can become a yawn. When they ditched 13 heats at the end of 1987 the tried 15, then 18 in 1993, then 16 in 1994.... 

As for businesses losing the customers over the years. That's quite right. But to find that the new Belle Vue attracted some old faces back, only to frighten them away again by the farcical Golden Double and the Play-Offs in which the Aces lost out to Wolverhampton, who snuck in Tai Woffinden just in time to make a mockery of the sport. 

It needs to be serious.

Tell anybody who doesn't know what speedway is about your riders riding for another team in this country and then racing in foreign leagues during the same week, and they'll look at you silly. That is why speedway finds it hard to be taken seriously.

[Tsunami]

On 7/24/2018 at 2:13 PM, Grachan said:

I don't know if anyone has been watching the Hockey World Cup on BT Sport, but it's interesting to see that the music they play is similar to what they play at speedway. Kashmir by Led Zep, and that one that goes "Right Here, Right Now" blaring out. And when England scored, they played the same tune that they play at Swindon when there is a 5-1.

Also interesting, that someone commented that it was a big difference playing in front of a big crowd as they are used to playing in front of crowds of about 200.

Speedway has its problems, but Hockey is something everyone knows about, yet apparently attracts crowds of about 200 despite GB winning a Gold Medal at the Olympics, and plays the same old music to a crowd consisting mainly of young women.

Yes, it doesn't matter what era a song is from, as long as it is appropriate and generates excitement. Great old tunes like Wipeout and Blur's Song 2 are played everywhere.

[Gemini]

17 hours ago, Thornaby48 said:

Why not return to the successful 1970's  with 13 heat TEAM match followed by a couple reserve races for the up and coming and the individual Rider of the Night races for all and sundry perhaps counting towards an end of season grand final. Bring back the SIlver Sash match races as well. How is that for a variety?

Sounds good but I'd like to bet that that some riders wouldn't be available for the 2nd half  'Rider of the Night' races because they'd be in a rush to get off somewhere else to ride for their other team/s the next day. 

[waytogo28]

17 hours ago, Thornaby48 said:

The last thing we want in speed way is to use the word "circus", that gives the impression that the sport cannot be taken seriously. Why not return to the successful 1970's  with 13 heat TEAM match followed by a couple reserve races for the up and coming and the individual Rider of the Night races for all and sundry perhaps counting towards an end of season grand final. Bring back the SIlver Sash match races as well. How is that for a variety?

What we have to appreciate that when a business loses its customers they are very difficult to bring back. Forget the old fans  they will return in time, I did after 14 years, concentrate on attracting new fans.

In the mean time sort out the guest rider problem, look at refining the r/r system  with no. 8  riders, encouraging local New riders  ,organise an attractive league, the use of tac subs  etc. and start next year anew.

A 13 minute match MIGHT be OK for £9.99p but I believe that "the past is a different country" and going back to what worked in a 1970's society is not likely to work in 2019. It's got to be different and have exciting new elements IF it is to stand any chance of attracting an entirely new age range of fans. It is likely to be so different that many of the remaining long-term fans will walk away in disgust.  Arena motorcycle racing of a different kind may not be speedway but it may be a marketable commodity. Speedway as we know it may have to vanish for something else to replace it.

Edited July 26, 2018 by waytogo28
additional

[moxey63]

27 minutes ago, waytogo28 said:

A 13 minute match MIGHT be OK for £9.99p but I believe that "the past is a different country" and going back to what worked in a 1970's society is not likely to work in 2019. It's got to be different and have exciting new elements IF it is to stand any chance of attracting an entirely new age range of fans. It is likely to be so different that many of the remaining long-term fans will walk away in disgust.  Arena motorcycle racing of a different kind may not be speedway but it may be a marketable commodity. Speedway as we know it may have to vanish for something else to replace it.

Yes, naturally 13 heats would have to be cheaper, as would the complete exclusion of the riders that would rather commit to other competitions like the GPs and foreign leagues.

As for your belief that the past is a different country - bump starts, women riders and circus night out... wasn't that back in the 30s.? 

[bigcatdiary]

I think the current 15 heat is the best formula the UK has used, I certainly wouldn’t favour any change in that.

 

 

[foamfence]

I would prefer the old 13 heat format with two nominated riders heats to finish.

Edited July 26, 2018 by foamfence

[moxey63]

If it's about cost cutting, reverting to 13 heats will be doing that. Nominated heats must mean quite a strain on the wage bill. And how about programmes. Why are they so much to buy? I know people say they are part of the club's income, but how many stay-away fans input the factor of programme costs into the night out. Some people don't enjoy speedway without keeping score, for example. Surely the craze to make the average club programme the one thing that's professional about speedway needs drawing back on. IWe aren't football... and even in that clubs have started to hint programmes may be a thing of the past. A basic scoresheet is all that's needed.

Edited July 26, 2018 by moxey63

[waytogo28]

55 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

Yes, naturally 13 heats would have to be cheaper, as would the complete exclusion of the riders that would rather commit to other competitions like the GPs and foreign leagues.

As for your belief that the past is a different country - bump starts, women riders and circus night out... wasn't that back in the 30s.? 

It was and huge crowds flocked to see it so perhaps different eras are different "countries". I do not pretend to be right about the decline of speedway. No-one on here is, are they? It is all just different ideas about what might work. The BSPA are no doubt already set on the one " sure to work" plan for 2019. As it's their money at stake they have every right to do that. We might be very upset  ( as I am and yourself too ) about the decline ( demise?) of UK league / team speedway but we have no say about what will happen to it. 1930's "tricks" might work with the new generation of fans which speedway must have very soon.  I think that the mooted 14 track one league will be what is most likely to happen, with the other tracks something like NL level ( with no doubling up and no match night conflicts ). Long before the centenary in 2028 speedway in the UK will look very, very different. Roll Up, Roll Up!

[waytogo28]

30 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

A basic scoresheet is all that's needed.

I make my own and have done for five years. Not only on cost grounds but because I have read all that is in the programme - online ( except the adverts ).

[Thornaby48]

29 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

If it's about cost cutting, reverting to 13 heats will be doing that. Nominated heats must mean quite a strain on the wage bill. And how about programmes. Why are they so much to buy? I know people say they are part of the club's income, but how many stay-away fans input the factor of programme costs into the night out. Some people don't enjoy speedway without keeping score, for example. Surely the craze to make the average club programme the one thing that's professional about speedway needs drawing back on. IWe aren't football... and even in that clubs have started to hint programmes may be a thing of the past. A basic scoresheet is all that's needed.

I quite agree about the cost of the programme.At Redcar  the programme is £2.50 and basically there is nothing in it. I always buy one ,I don't know how people can get full  enjoyment without one. Surely a basic score card with results and fixtures is all that is needed costing say £1.00. Does anybody really look at all the adverts in a programme, I dont

[waytogo28]

15 minutes ago, Thornaby48 said:

I quite agree about the cost of the programme.At Redcar  the programme is £2.50 and basically there is nothing in it. I always buy one ,I don't know how people can get full  enjoyment without one. Surely a basic score card with results and fixtures is all that is needed costing say £1.00. Does anybody really look at all the adverts in a programme, I dont

King's Lynn is now a very glossy "magazine' and costs £3 - my scorecard costs 10p ( for a photocopy ) KL used to have a perfect fold-out A3 scorecard on sale for £1 but that went in the way of "progress".

[Humphrey Appleby]

2 hours ago, Gemini said:

Sounds good but I'd like to bet that that some riders wouldn't be available for the 2nd half  'Rider of the Night' races because they'd be in a rush to get off somewhere else to ride for their other team/s the next day. 

This inadvertently sums up the thinking that bedevils the sport. If promoters need to commit to 20-heat meetings to make a better night's entertainment and provide the paying public with better value-for-money, they need to be putting it in the riders contracts that they're obliged to ride in whatever events are required of them, and riders should be fined if they bugger off early.

Similarly, those saying that 13 heats would 'cut costs'. The whole financial viability of the British speedway is at stake now, and costs need to be restructured around a lower semi-pro level, anyway, so again you structure the pay policy around what's required to put on attractive and value-for-money meetings. 

Find the riders willing to commit, which are unlikely to be the international journeyman, and structure your competitions around them.  

I personally see little point in running second-halves (or 'first-halves' for that matter) that have no meaning beyond the end of the meeting, but you could easily have a structured competition that scores points for some meaningful season-long event, or some sort of league bonus points.

[Spl77]

I have to say that when Ipswich ran the John Berry memorial meeting several years ago under the old 13 heat format with the old regulations I quite enjoyed it. Team managers being able to select what gate their riders went from naming your top 5 in any order all added an element of tactics that is sadly missing now. As for the 13 heat format and second half yes I enjoyed it however my personal favourite was the old National League 16 heat  with 6 heat junior league match from the late 80s. Sadly the sport is way beyond what heat format should we use.... Major changes are required. 

[moxey63]

13 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

This inadvertently sums up the thinking that bedevils the sport. If promoters need to commit to 20-heat meetings to make a better night's entertainment and provide the paying public with better value-for-money, they need to be putting it in the riders contracts that they're obliged to ride in whatever events are required of them, and riders should be fined if they bugger off early.

Similarly, those saying that 13 heats would 'cut costs'. The whole financial viability of the British speedway is at stake now, and costs need to be restructured around a lower semi-pro level, anyway, so again you structure the pay policy around what's required to put on attractive and value-for-money meetings. 

Find the riders willing to commit, which are unlikely to be the international journeyman, and structure your competitions around them.  

I personally see little point in running second-halves (or 'first-halves' for that matter) that have no meaning beyond the end of the meeting, but you could easily have a structured competition that scores points for some meaningful season-long event, or some sort of league bonus points.

Make British speedway for those committed to British speedway. They'll be enough meetings for those that are if they go for one league. Then tracks could hold individual meetings and entice some of the guys who don't really want to commit to Britain alone. League speedway needs to come first, or speedway will eventually drift towards digit figure teams.

[Big Al]

2 hours ago, waytogo28 said:

King's Lynn is now a very glossy "magazine' and costs £3 - my scorecard costs 10p ( for a photocopy ) KL used to have a perfect fold-out A3 scorecard on sale for £1 but that went in the way of "progress".

It's also making saving/collecting programmes impossible because of their weight and size. You could store 10 old style ones for each modern one. So that puts people off from buying them. It's just money thrown away.

[Big Al]

21 hours ago, moxey63 said:

I was just saying the same thing. When something isn't right, then perhaps it's best reverting back to when it was. I know the crowds aren't there, but 13 heats is just enough to watch a meeting. Take the other night, the BT match that dragged on. Anything over 13 races can become a yawn. When they ditched 13 heats at the end of 1987 the tried 15, then 18 in 1993, then 16 in 1994.... 

As for businesses losing the customers over the years. That's quite right. But to find that the new Belle Vue attracted some old faces back, only to frighten them away again by the farcical Golden Double and the Play-Offs in which the Aces lost out to Wolverhampton, who snuck in Tai Woffinden just in time to make a mockery of the sport. 

It needs to be serious.

Tell anybody who doesn't know what speedway is about your riders riding for another team in this country and then racing in foreign leagues during the same week, and they'll look at you silly. That is why speedway finds it hard to be taken seriously.

So tell them that they are hard-working self-employed blokes who are only earning from it when when they are riding

[Humphrey Appleby]

1 hour ago, waytogo28 said:

I make my own and have done for five years. Not only on cost grounds but because I have read all that is in the programme - online ( except the adverts ).

Quite honestly, printed programmes should be a thing of the past, as they increasingly are in football. 

Make an app which allows people to follow the results online, and adds a bit of additional content, save the printing costs, and maybe charge a nominal seasonal subscription.