The continuing decline of Speedway

[MattK]

58 minutes ago, waytogo28 said:

Hey, come on MattK, not all "old" people are minted and I know of more than a dozen ( perhaps 20 ) who have walked away from watching speedway live in the stadium because it IS passe. And past it and old-fashioned and has failed. Failed full stop to engage with it's existing fan base.

My comment was was slightly tongue in cheek. However, this doesn't change the fact that one of the biggest problems facing British speedway is that they don't know who their target market is.

The presentation IS passe, at Swindon they play AC/DC and Rockin Robin by the Jackson 5 every week. They then go into schools to try and attract youngsters. It is incredible difficult to have a product which appeals to all age ranges. In fact, very few products can manage this and it is mainly very high-end aspirational brand, something speedway is not.

I don't understand why promoters don't recognise their main customer base is over 50 and market speedway to a wider audience of the same age range.

[Ghostwalker]

May I suggest that we use the existing thread rather then starting a new one?
 

 

[Pieman72]

Unfortunately we live in a society divided by age and while it has been profitable to go after the 'grey pound' and 'baby boomers' ultimately for the continuity of speedway we need to reach out to all. This is not just affecting speedway it's through out society. We have to be realistic and let speedway find it's level. Thanks to all for some excellent posts as we need to discuss the situation and not just 'sit on our hands'. 

[Big Al]

The last 72 hours has shown the way forward I think.

A league, however it is actually organised, at the current CL level or even perhaps a bit lower, with admission prices in the £12-£14 region. Riders will have to accept that riding speedway within it will not provide them with sufficient income to make it their main living. However, they should have the right to expect prompt payment and good standard of tracks which should be rigorously enforced. Plus an amateur league with strictly controlled costs.

A second SGP to become an established addition.

Rounds of an expanded SEC taking place in the UK. 

Want a fix of top level league racing? Head to Poland, or watch Polish and Swedish league on TV - because coverage of UK racing will just be the GP's and SEC.

[Grachan]

On ‎7‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 8:42 PM, MattK said:

My comment was was slightly tongue in cheek. However, this doesn't change the fact that one of the biggest problems facing British speedway is that they don't know who their target market is.

The presentation IS passe, at Swindon they play AC/DC and Rockin Robin by the Jackson 5 every week. They then go into schools to try and attract youngsters. It is incredible difficult to have a product which appeals to all age ranges. In fact, very few products can manage this and it is mainly very high-end aspirational brand, something speedway is not.

I don't understand why promoters don't recognise their main customer base is over 50 and market speedway to a wider audience of the same age range.

I don't know if anyone has been watching the Hockey World Cup on BT Sport, but it's interesting to see that the music they play is similar to what they play at speedway. Kashmir by Led Zep, and that one that goes "Right Here, Right Now" blaring out. And when England scored, they played the same tune that they play at Swindon when there is a 5-1.

Also interesting, that someone commented that it was a big difference playing in front of a big crowd as they are used to playing in front of crowds of about 200.

Speedway has its problems, but Hockey is something everyone knows about, yet apparently attracts crowds of about 200 despite GB winning a Gold Medal at the Olympics, and plays the same old music to a crowd consisting mainly of young women.

[DC2]

 

Bowls. That's your answer. Speedway appeals to old people and so does bowls. There's 5,000 bowling greens in the country and 400,000 players.

Alternatively, your answer could be doctors' surgeries, even more old people there.  

 

[Humphrey Appleby]

18 hours ago, Big Al said:

A second SGP to become an established addition.

Rounds of an expanded SEC taking place in the UK. 

Want a fix of top level league racing? Head to Poland, or watch Polish and Swedish league on TV - because coverage of UK racing will just be the GP's and SEC.

How are privately promoted events that take money out of the sport, and in some cases even charging local tracks for the 'privilege' of hosting, going to take the sport forward? One of the reasons that speedway is in the mess that it's in, is because it doesn't benefit from the few semi-lucrative events it actually has. What little money there is needs to be kept within the sport. 

And why do people think Polish and Swedish speedway remains relatively viable year-after-year, whereas the fortunes of other countries fluctuate wildly? Precisely because league speedway provides the fan identification and continuity that individual racing does not. 

I'm also not sure how many times it needs to be pointed out, but when all the top riders used to ride in Britain, the sport still saw diminishing crowds. Trying to put on expensive meetings more than once a twice a year will simply undermine the novelty for existing fans, and the new audiences to whom the sport really needs to be appealing, have essentially never heard of any of top riders anyway. 

[steve roberts]

50 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

How are privately promoted events that take money out of the sport, and in some cases even charging local tracks for the 'privilege' of hosting, going to take the sport forward? One of the reasons that speedway is in the mess that it's in, is because it doesn't benefit from the few semi-lucrative events it actually has. What little money there is needs to be kept within the sport. 

And why do people think Polish and Swedish speedway remains relatively viable year-after-year, whereas the fortunes of other countries fluctuate wildly? Precisely because league speedway provides the fan identification and continuity that individual racing does not. 

I'm also not sure how many times it needs to be pointed out, but when all the top riders used to ride in Britain, the sport still saw diminishing crowds. Trying to put on expensive meetings more than once a twice a year will simply undermine the novelty for existing fans, and the new audiences to whom the sport really needs to be appealing, have essentially never heard of any of top riders anyway. 

...This is an area that the late John Berry used to raise. Whereas once upon a time the one-off World Final when staged in this country would provide a divided income for British tracks (as well as other FIM and shared BSPA events) when the GPs came along the whole scenario changed and with little interference from the BSPA who allowed the circus to dictate it's own terms.

[steve roberts]

16 hours ago, Grachan said:

I don't know if anyone has been watching the Hockey World Cup on BT Sport, but it's interesting to see that the music they play is similar to what they play at speedway. Kashmir by Led Zep, and that one that goes "Right Here, Right Now" blaring out. And when England scored, they played the same tune that they play at Swindon when there is a 5-1.

Also interesting, that someone commented that it was a big difference playing in front of a big crowd as they are used to playing in front of crowds of about 200.

Speedway has its problems, but Hockey is something everyone knows about, yet apparently attracts crowds of about 200 despite GB winning a Gold Medal at the Olympics, and plays the same old music to a crowd consisting mainly of young women.

...Personally I've never totally gone along with the music played argument. In all my years going to speedway the music was often of the latest chart selection which is what the younger generation (those very people the sport needs to attract) tend to listen to anyway and, therefore, able to relate to same...which is more than I could half of the time!

[Humphrey Appleby]

25 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

...This is an area that the late John Berry used to raise. Whereas once upon a time the one-off World Final when staged in this country would provide a divided income for British tracks (as well as other FIM and shared BSPA events) when the GPs came along the whole scenario changed and with little interference from the BSPA who allowed the circus to dictate it's own terms.

It's also been discussed at length on here. To a certain extent, I think it's fair to say that the SGP generated revenue that didn't exist (or no longer existed ) in the sport, and there is some argument that it provided the sport with some wider exposure on which other revenues (television and sponsorship) might be attracted elsewhere in the sport. 

However, the SGP (and now the SEC to a lesser extent) lives off the back off the professional leagues as the participating riders can in no way make a living from those competitions alone, and has the choice of the most attractive dates whilst the leagues who do provide riders with their main source of earnings have had to just give way. This did badly affect the British Elite League, even though other factors were certainly involved, and probably substantially contributed to the demise of formerly 'big' tracks like Coventry, although even Poland has been occasionally affected as well.

Of course, this also happens in English cricket where the top players now rarely play in domestic competitions, but the difference is that most of the revenues from international cricket accrue to the ECB who use them to support domestic teams. There's a lot more money in international cricket, but the ECB (through the ICC) kept control of the licensing of the top level competitions to ensure that domestic and even grassroots cricket derives some benefit, which does not happen in speedway. 

The sad reality is that no-one within speedway, especially British speedway, seemingly had the foresight or gumption to do what the likes of BSI did. There was a burgeoning cable and satellite television market at the time, desperate to fill air time with relatively cheap content, and the opportunities were there for a promoters body to go and run this for themselves. At the very least, they should not have allowed the rights to be sold off by the FIM without insisting that some of the revenue came back directly to them (and not just disappear into the FIM coffers), and that just shows a collective lack of vision and cooperation. 

I'm afraid that I don't really buy into this notion that the SGP required substantial investment to start with, and if the major national leagues had been able to cooperate, could have more easily shared any risk between themselves. And whilst I'm realistic enough to realise that the old World Championship would be pretty difficult to market, I do think it was either deliberately or neglectful allowed to be run down because attendances still held up in the decent venues even at the end. 

[Grachan]

7 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

...Personally I've never totally gone along with the music played argument. In all my years going to speedway the music was often of the latest chart selection which is what the younger generation (those very people the sport needs to attract) tend to listen to anyway and, therefore, able to relate to same...which is more than I could half of the time!

I think the issue with speedway is not just the style of music played but the fact that everyone has to stand around listening to it for more time than is necessary.

[Humphrey Appleby]

16 hours ago, Grachan said:

I don't know if anyone has been watching the Hockey World Cup on BT Sport, but it's interesting to see that the music they play is similar to what they play at speedway. Kashmir by Led Zep, and that one that goes "Right Here, Right Now" blaring out. And when England scored, they played the same tune that they play at Swindon when there is a 5-1.

Also interesting, that someone commented that it was a big difference playing in front of a big crowd as they are used to playing in front of crowds of about 200.

Speedway has its problems, but Hockey is something everyone knows about, yet apparently attracts crowds of about 200 despite GB winning a Gold Medal at the Olympics, and plays the same old music to a crowd consisting mainly of young women.

Even the Olympic competition was played out in front of pretty sparse crowds from memory.

Difference of course with hockey, is that it's really only international players who get paid, and then only a pittance. Speedway's problem is that it's underlying costs are unsustainable compared to what it generates in revenue. 

 

[Pieman72]

While I do not dispute the merging of my topic by administration. What I am doing is trying to stimulate idea's as to how speedway will survive in the future and move away from words like decline. I do feel that most individuals in speedway are in a 'bubble' and avoiding the harsh realities of speedway's present predicament which are not good. Losing 2 Elite teams when there is only 9 is rather serious. 

[waytogo28]

54 minutes ago, Pieman72 said:

While I do not dispute the merging of my topic by administration. What I am doing is trying to stimulate idea's as to how speedway will survive in the future and move away from words like decline. I do feel that most individuals in speedway are in a 'bubble' and avoiding the harsh realities of speedway's present predicament which are not good. Losing 2 Elite teams when there is only 9 is rather serious. 

Perhaps a better heading might have been "The Future of UK Speedway". I think the 14 team semi-pro league likely to be mooted soon might be worth a punt but I cannot see it attracting the new fans necessary for it to thrive. Without some kind of massive marketing. The same old 20,000 fans in the UK might support it.

[moxey63]

What is frustrating, is the slowing down of the turnstile clicks hasn't happened overnight. And yet every winter BSPA congress promises radical action to halt the turnstiles from seizing altogether. But often things become even more frustrating because of their tinkering around the edges - look at fixed racenights. Wow! That's really worked. Are they smoking pot when they have these do's? 

[Big Al]

7 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

How are privately promoted events that take money out of the sport, and in some cases even charging local tracks for the 'privilege' of hosting, going to take the sport forward? One of the reasons that speedway is in the mess that it's in, is because it doesn't benefit from the few semi-lucrative events it actually has. What little money there is needs to be kept within the sport. 

And why do people think Polish and Swedish speedway remains relatively viable year-after-year, whereas the fortunes of other countries fluctuate wildly? Precisely because league speedway provides the fan identification and continuity that individual racing does not. 

I'm also not sure how many times it needs to be pointed out, but when all the top riders used to ride in Britain, the sport still saw diminishing crowds. Trying to put on expensive meetings more than once a twice a year will simply undermine the novelty for existing fans, and the new audiences to whom the sport really needs to be appealing, have essentially never heard of any of top riders anyway. 

So what is the alternative???

[Humphrey Appleby]

4 hours ago, Big Al said:

So what is the alternative???

If there was an easy answer it would have already been done (although knowing speedway it wouldn't ), but I certainly don't think the answer is hosting expensive travelling circuses that have little long-term stake in the sport and take revenue aware from local tracks. I also still think you need to keep the team element, because it's difficult to establish continuity around individual riders who come-and-go. People are also not going to turn-up regularly to watch meetings that don't count towards something. 

Unfortunately, and as some have already said on here, the sport has become so badly run down and under-capitalised, that I think you have to rebuild the sport around a lower semi-pro level. I think you need to establish a central pool of established riders in order to control costs and ensure broad competitiveness amongst as many teams as possible, but encourage teams to develop riders who'd be protected (i.e. allowed to stay at the same team) for 3-5 seasons. I'd not advocate wholesale rider changes every season, but the sport needs to control its costs and ensure there's no incentive for cheque book speedway. 

I'd also think about having a central pool of engines, all maintained to as similar standards as possible, which would be randomly allocated before each meeting. 

There's no point discussing anything else until you work out what the sport can afford and bring its costs under control. But I do think you'd probably want to merge the current three leagues into two, with the second being NL level, to provide more variety than now. 

I'd think how you can run a 20-heat programme swiftly, whether that's as one match or a shorter match and support event. I also think there needs to be some sort of gimmicky event at each meeting, like an 8-rider (two grids) race that counts towards something, and possibly some after-match individual event that contributes towards some sort of national season-long competition.

Some of this isn't going to be palatable to traditionalists, but the sport is now on its knees and there soon won't be any traditionalists left unless it can appeal to new audiences. 

Edited July 25, 2018 by Humphrey Appleby

[waytogo28]

2 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

that I think you have to rebuild the sport around a more low-level semi-pro level.

An Absolute essential. The only possibly viable direction left.

3 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

I'd also think about having a central pool of engines, all maintained to as similar standards as possible, which would be randomly allocated before each meeting. 

This too needs to be put into place. The cream will still rise to the top but racing would be fairer than it is now. Still prefer 250cc or 350 singles but realise the cost of replacing engines. Introduce this slowly.

3 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

I'd think how you can run a 20-heat programme swiftly, whether that's as one match or a shorter match and support event. I also think there needs to be some sort of gimmicky event at each meeting, like an 8-rider (two grids) race that counts towards something, and possibly some after-match individual event that contributes towards some sort of national season-long competition.

 

It does need to be as different as possible with something gimmicky ( as traditionalists will call it ) because we already know that the racing that is on offer now has been rejected. Closer, fairer less predictable than current TTF 75% of heats. Even bump starts rather than tapes. Female rider races ( until some get good enough to beat the men ). It has to be some of "circus night out" around the watch YOUR team concept. It is something like this or nowt.

[Big Al]

1 hour ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

If there was an easy answer it would have already been done (although knowing speedway it wouldn't ), but I certainly don't think the answer is hosting expensive travelling circuses that have little long-term stake in the sport and take revenue aware from local tracks. I also still think you need to keep the team element, because it's difficult to establish continuity around individual riders who come-and-go. People are also not going to turn-up regularly to watch meetings that don't count towards something. 

Unfortunately, and as some have already said on here, the sport has become so badly run down and under-capitalised, that I think you have to rebuild the sport around a lower semi-pro level. I think you need to establish a central pool of established riders in order to control costs and ensure broad competitiveness amongst as many teams as possible, but encourage teams to develop riders who'd be protected (i.e. allowed to stay at the same team) for 3-5 seasons. I'd not advocate wholesale rider changes every season, but the sport needs to control its costs and ensure there's no incentive for cheque book speedway. 

I'd also think about having a central pool of engines, all maintained to as similar standards as possible, which would be randomly allocated before each meeting. 

There's no point discussing anything else until you work out what the sport can afford and bring its costs under control. But I do think you'd probably want to merge the current three leagues into two, with the second being NL level, to provide more variety than now. 

I'd think how you can run a 20-heat programme swiftly, whether that's as one match or a shorter match and support event. I also think there needs to be some sort of gimmicky event at each meeting, like an 8-rider (two grids) race that counts towards something, and possibly some after-match individual event that contributes towards some sort of national season-long competition.

Some of this isn't going to be palatable to traditionalists, but the sport is now on its knees and there soon won't be any traditionalists left unless it can appeal to new audiences. 

I'd agree with all you say regarding the domestic league.

But would still argue that some of what you call "travelling circus" events can add to the promotion of the sport at a general level, and would not have a negative effect on income for league clubs if dealt with in the right way. More like the opposite I think, they are two different albeit overlapping markets.

Yes, it is a great pity that companies like BSI saw opportunities and took them, and the BSPA didn't, but the ship left port long ago and whilst the FIM regards these organisations favourably, it would unfortunately be detrimental to the UK for their events to be blocked out and to become more isolated. They could be the only way for UK fans to see Lambert, Bewley, Woffinden in action apart from the regular FIM events which only happen in the UK occasionally.

[moxey63]

58 minutes ago, waytogo28 said:

It does need to be as different as possible with something gimmicky ( as traditionalists will call it ) because we already know that the racing that is on offer now has been rejected. Closer, fairer less predictable than current TTF 75% of heats. Even bump starts rather than tapes. Female rider races ( until some get good enough to beat the men ). It has to be some of "circus night out" around the watch YOUR team concept. It is something like this or nowt.

1

We all have various ideas, and it's hard for promoters to get it right, but I wouldn't go for any of the above. Speedway has been trying to lose the "circus" tag for decades.