The continuing decline of Speedway

[Skid Sprocket]

Just now, Vincent Blachshadow said:

So how do you decide 'what supporters want' if several supporters have different views on a given subject which this forum shows they clearly do?

Maybe a poll for the top five gripes. If everyone gets behind the top one till its fixed then move down the list but that is a subject for discussion.

The powers that be are not going to trawl through forums to get popular opinions they need prioritising and putting in their face and publicising where they cant ignore public opinion.

[Hawk127]

6 minutes ago, Vincent Blachshadow said:

So how do you decide 'what supporters want' if several supporters have differing views on a given subject which this forum shows they clearly do?

Perhaps start with the three leagues and price fix the admission charge so clubs have to build a team to a budget. If they get additional sponsorship that is up to them.

Premiership £15 - Concessions - £10 - Under 16 free. Race sheet included

Championship £12 Concessions and under 16 as above

National £8 Flat rate except for under 16 who will be free.

Revert to 13 heat formula and a second half split between the top five riders and the 6,7 and nominated number 8

Allow teams to race on the night that best suits them and if they sign riders who have commitments abroad, they will not be given any facility if the overseas team has priority.

Scrap the restriction on over 8 pointers for the Premiership.

Revert to home and away twice, k o cup and Craven Shield.

introduce a British championship that runs throughout the season with every track holding one round

Unless  you get all tracks operating under a fixed set of rules when it comes to costs etc it will never work. Fans generally want a weekly fix or at the very least once a fortnight and sorting out the schedule of meetings should not be difficult if the league season runs from mid April until mid September. Clubs given two alternative dates when a meeting is postponed. If neither work they forfeit the league points. This would at least attempt to deal with the shenanigans that go on with rearranging fixtures and rider availability

Keep the rule book simple. For example If riders break the tapes or cause a stoppage which requires a race to be rerun (and depending on the cause) it should be all four back with the culprit off 20 meters. The punter pays to watch four riders in every race. Unsatisfactory start, straight back, no pit gate being opened. Mechanics restricted to the pits once a rider leaves to race.

it would not be difficult to simplify the running of the sport and introduce some scratch races  as part of the meeting like for example the fastest lap or two laps or even bring back the golden and silver helmet match races. The odd tweak might make all the difference but getting all the clubs to cut their cloth accordingly is going to be the stumbling block.

[Vincent Blachshadow]

11 minutes ago, Skid Sprocket said:

Maybe a poll for the top five gripes. If everyone gets behind the top one till its fixed then move down the list but that is a subject for discussion.

The powers that be are not going to trawl through forums to get popular opinions they need prioritising and putting in their face and publicising where they cant ignore public opinion.

But a poll will only discover what some want on a given subject, and may even be a minority view (if three or four options are given on a particular theme).

My point is really that, since the supporters can't all agree on something how do we make sure the promoters (the ones that stump up most cash, in other words) do and whatever they do won't suit everybody anyway. 

What it needs is a clearly defined way forward and set of rules decided by the promoters but an independent person or body of people to ensure they're stuck to and properly administered. And therein lies the problem - that independent person/body will need paying a salary commensurate with their position and the sport can't afford that.

[iris123]

42 minutes ago, Vincent Blachshadow said:

So how do you decide 'what supporters want' if several supporters have differing views on a given subject which this forum shows they clearly do?

Saw this problem recently at my local club.They normally run a meeting(only the one)on a Sunday and I guess they aren’t happy with the attendances.So they asked fans what day they would prefer,Saturday or Sunday.And it looked about 50-50 to me with the online answers......,.

[waytogo28]

I feel that the first matter to be dealt with is - are the BSPA open to hearing from a Supporters Group and seriously considering their merged ideas ( those a majority of "members" can agree on as being essential ). Unless we can establish a core group via the BSF and tackle this issue we cannot move forward very much. I think if a group can be set up then getting a survey along the lines of the one recently posted on here ( that was first done 20 years ago ) would be a priority. If we can recruit 1 or 2 activists ( or more ) from each club to distribute such a survey and establish a sharing of the cost ( or find a sponsor! ) that would seem to be the first steps along the way. I still have my Little Red Book but I was 19 years old when all that seemed the way forward. I am now 69.

[Fromafar]

56 minutes ago, Skid Sprocket said:

Thats the problem with differing views of members on a forum. Someone needs to take charge and sort out a list of priorities and work down the list of what supporters want (and will pay at the turnstiles for),

Starting to sound like the Promoters AGM already.

[Skid Sprocket]

1 minute ago, Fromafar said:

Starting to sound like the Promoters AGM already.

Except we are the paying supporters. 

[Skid Sprocket]

10 minutes ago, waytogo28 said:

I feel that the first matter to be dealt with is - are the BSPA open to hearing from a Supporters Group and seriously considering their merged ideas ( those a majority of "members" can agree on as being essential ). Unless we can establish a core group via the BSF and tackle this issue we cannot move forward very much. I think if a group can be set up then getting a survey along the lines of the one recently posted on here ( that was first done 20 years ago ) would be a priority. If we can recruit 1 or 2 activists ( or more ) from each club to distribute such a survey and establish a sharing of the cost ( or find a sponsor! ) that would seem to be the first steps along the way. I still have my Little Red Book but I was 19 years old when all that seemed the way forward. I am now 69.

More positive thinking.  Now who has the time and skill to pull all this together?

[waytogo28]

Just now, Skid Sprocket said:

More positive thinking.  Now who has the time and skill to pull all this together?

You and me and any number of other eager volunteers. I will pay for 1,000 surveys to be printed after we get the permission of the King's Lynn promotion to distribute them at an upcoming match.

[Fromafar]

7 minutes ago, Skid Sprocket said:

Except we are the paying supporters. 

It is a nice piece of " out the box thinking"  getting Promoters to listen.I wish you luck though.There  will be a few journeymen riders starting to get a bit twitchy of the present situation IMO .there are a lot of Promotions starting to suffer with lower attendances these days.

[Skid Sprocket]

2 minutes ago, waytogo28 said:

You and me and any number of other eager volunteers. I will pay for 1,000 surveys to be printed after we get the permission of the King's Lynn promotion to distribute them at an upcoming match.

A skilled letter writer to draft a letter to every promoter to put them in the picture written so as not to get their backs up?

[Thornaby48]

This sounds like speed ways version of Brexit

[B.V 72]

Hope i can get my point across with this post.

Not that i am against it i watch every speedway meeting that is on TV as well as every meeting live at Belle vue. But has live league meetings being shown on tv changed our perception of what is a good speedway meeting.

We are all now obsessed with passing if there is not lots of passing then it is a poor speedway meeting.But has speedway racing changed that much from when we had massive crowds and us fans on the BSF loved it i dont think that it has.Lots of other points have contributed to how things are today and a lot of them have nothing to do with British speedway promoters..

Remember the old comment from non speedway fans that first from the gate wins its boring it was being said when i first started watching the sport and still is today.

So my point is that speedway is far more exciting if you are watching your own team because every race means something.(Its a team sport and with any team sport you want your team to win thats what it is all about for most fans.)We all love to see great racing more so if its a rider from your team  doing the passing but a boring 5/1when i am watching Belle vue is not boring its more points towards a win or pulling back a meeting when you are behind so you get a buzz from it and enjoy the race,in a race like this the last thing(as an aces fan) i would want to see is a pass and my team lose points.If your team needs a 5/1 in the last race to win the meeting and gates 1st and 2nd you would be out of your seat willing them to stay there.But if i am watching a meeting on tv as a neutral i see it through the eyes of a non speedway fan the teams or the result mean nothing to me at all i am watching the meeting just to watch the speedway racing so a Boring 5/1 would have no meaning to me and would just be that and would be a bobins speedway race as would any race from the tapes.

So before league racing was on tv every meeting we watched in most cases included our own team and was seen through the eyes of a fan who wanted his team to win and the above points made for a great speedway meeting, and is possibly why we remember speedway being better back in the day.But the other points watching more and more meeting as a neutral the meeting has to have lots and lots or passing and close racing for it to entertain us or its a poor meeting.Its the racing and not the result that matters to us i think the TV has given us lots of meetings to watch as a neutral and made us view speedway through different eyes.

Hope i got my point across and not just wrote a load of twaddle.

.

Edited July 16, 2018 by B.V 72

[GWC]

2 hours ago, Hawk127 said:

Perhaps start with the three leagues and price fix the admission charge so clubs have to build a team to a budget. If they get additional sponsorship that is up to them.

Premiership £15 - Concessions - £10 - Under 16 free. Race sheet included

Championship £12 Concessions and under 16 as above

National £8 Flat rate except for under 16 who will be free.

Revert to 13 heat formula and a second half split between the top five riders and the 6,7 and nominated number 8

Allow teams to race on the night that best suits them and if they sign riders who have commitments abroad, they will not be given any facility if the overseas team has priority.

Scrap the restriction on over 8 pointers for the Premiership.

Revert to home and away twice, k o cup and Craven Shield.

introduce a British championship that runs throughout the season with every track holding one round

Unless  you get all tracks operating under a fixed set of rules when it comes to costs etc it will never work. Fans generally want a weekly fix or at the very least once a fortnight and sorting out the schedule of meetings should not be difficult if the league season runs from mid April until mid September. Clubs given two alternative dates when a meeting is postponed. If neither work they forfeit the league points. This would at least attempt to deal with the shenanigans that go on with rearranging fixtures and rider availability

Keep the rule book simple. For example If riders break the tapes or cause a stoppage which requires a race to be rerun (and depending on the cause) it should be all four back with the culprit off 20 meters. The punter pays to watch four riders in every race. Unsatisfactory start, straight back, no pit gate being opened. Mechanics restricted to the pits once a rider leaves to race.

it would not be difficult to simplify the running of the sport and introduce some scratch races  as part of the meeting like for example the fastest lap or two laps or even bring back the golden and silver helmet match races. The odd tweak might make all the difference but getting all the clubs to cut their cloth accordingly is going to be the stumbling block.

This makes a lot of sense but with Rye now gone the PL is broken and the rider sharing between the leagues is dreadful.

If you revert to tracks riding on their chosen night then it will be hopeless regarding rider availability.

It really needs a much bigger shake up top to bottom with 2 leagues based on a clubs financial position and a riders ability.

The standard will inevitably drop initially but is there really any alternative?

[SPEEDY69]

2 hours ago, Hawk127 said:

Perhaps start with the three leagues and price fix the admission charge so clubs have to build a team to a budget. If they get additional sponsorship that is up to them.

Premiership £15 - Concessions - £10 - Under 16 free. Race sheet included

Championship £12 Concessions and under 16 as above

National £8 Flat rate except for under 16 who will be free.

Revert to 13 heat formula and a second half split between the top five riders and the 6,7 and nominated number 8

Allow teams to race on the night that best suits them and if they sign riders who have commitments abroad, they will not be given any facility if the overseas team has priority.

Scrap the restriction on over 8 pointers for the Premiership.

Revert to home and away twice, k o cup and Craven Shield.

introduce a British championship that runs throughout the season with every track holding one round

Unless  you get all tracks operating under a fixed set of rules when it comes to costs etc it will never work. Fans generally want a weekly fix or at the very least once a fortnight and sorting out the schedule of meetings should not be difficult if the league season runs from mid April until mid September. Clubs given two alternative dates when a meeting is postponed. If neither work they forfeit the league points. This would at least attempt to deal with the shenanigans that go on with rearranging fixtures and rider availability

Keep the rule book simple. For example If riders break the tapes or cause a stoppage which requires a race to be rerun (and depending on the cause) it should be all four back with the culprit off 20 meters. The punter pays to watch four riders in every race. Unsatisfactory start, straight back, no pit gate being opened. Mechanics restricted to the pits once a rider leaves to race.

it would not be difficult to simplify the running of the sport and introduce some scratch races  as part of the meeting like for example the fastest lap or two laps or even bring back the golden and silver helmet match races. The odd tweak might make all the difference but getting all the clubs to cut their cloth accordingly is going to be the stumbling block.

Some good ideas here but who would agree to fixtures on nights where half of the team are missing - and who would want to run a fixture where the opposition are decimated?  I agree that promoters need to be able to maximise their income and minimise their outgoings and the rules framework should allow that.

[Barney Rabbit]

23 minutes ago, B.V 72 said:

 

 

We are all now obsessed with passing if there is not lots of passing then it is a poor speedway meeting.But has speedway racing changed that much from when we had massive crowds and us fans on the BSF loved it i dont think that it has.Lots of other points have contributed to how things are today and a lot of them have nothing to do with British speedway promoters..

Remember the old comment from non speedway fans that first from the gate wins its boring it was being said when i first started watching the sport and still is today.

 

.

Before just about giving up on British speedway I attended a match at Alwalton and took a friend with me for his first taste of speedway. The match itself was non-descript really but had one noteworthy moment - Panthers reserve Ricky Ashcroft up against World Champion elect Jason Crump. Ricky jumped out of the gate first, got in front and stayed there, using everything he knew to keep Jason behind. Ricky took the flag first to tremendous applause, everybody on their feet cheering at the finish and on his well-deserved lap of honour. My mate Rob didn't see the point of the applause, to him, it was just a case of first away won!!! Reserve beating World Champ, ex home #1, ex track-record holder meant nothing to him. Ricky started first and won.

I found that, to most newbies, it doesn't matter how good the speedway is, how good the team riding is, you need passing. Without it they're less likely to come back.

[Skid Sprocket]

7 minutes ago, Barney Rabbit said:

Before just about giving up on British speedway I attended a match at Alwalton and took a friend with me for his first taste of speedway. The match itself was non-descript really but had one noteworthy moment - Panthers reserve Ricky Ashcroft up against World Champion elect Jason Crump. Ricky jumped out of the gate first, got in front and stayed there, using everything he knew to keep Jason behind. Ricky took the flag first to tremendous applause, everybody on their feet cheering at the finish and on his well-deserved lap of honour. My mate Rob didn't see the point of the applause, to him, it was just a case of first away won!!! Reserve beating World Champ, ex home #1, ex track-record holder meant nothing to him. Ricky started first and won.

I found that, to most newbies, it doesn't matter how good the speedway is, how good the team riding is, you need passing. Without it they're less likely to come back.

i have often thought similar myself.  It is often said that to attract new supporters rules and a lot more need changing but to initially attract newcomers you need action, rules and politics only come into it when you become a seasoned supporter.

[Crump99]

10 minutes ago, Barney Rabbit said:

Before just about giving up on British speedway I attended a match at Alwalton and took a friend with me for his first taste of speedway. The match itself was non-descript really but had one noteworthy moment - Panthers reserve Ricky Ashcroft up against World Champion elect Jason Crump. Ricky jumped out of the gate first, got in front and stayed there, using everything he knew to keep Jason behind. Ricky took the flag first to tremendous applause, everybody on their feet cheering at the finish and on his well-deserved lap of honour. My mate Rob didn't see the point of the applause, to him, it was just a case of first away won!!! Reserve beating World Champ, ex home #1, ex track-record holder meant nothing to him. Ricky started first and won.

I found that, to most newbies, it doesn't matter how good the speedway is, how good the team riding is, you need passing. Without it they're less likely to come back.

Good post. That highlights to me though that there is more to speedway than passing and if the attendee hasn't got that appreciation in them to nurture then passing isn't going to make much difference IMO. Their starting point is first out of the gate wins and any evidence of that (and we know that there will be at some point) just reinforces their already set opinion of the sport.

[wealdstone]

There never has been much passing in Speedway even going back to fourties and fifties. Now and again a rider comes on the scene who had that ability but they were/are few and far between. Peter Collins and Chris Harris come to mind

[molly1]

Me being a mear female when our sport was really popular 60s / 70s from what i can remember bigger leagues more variety of visiting teams and riders maybe an idea to put premiership and Championship clubs together once and for all and return to 13 heats leave national league as is hopefully capture the imagination again of the sport, when riders have bike problems they go back to basics maybe thats what speedway should do.