The continuing decline of Speedway

[moxey63]

15 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said:

In your case, they are worth listening to because there's a chance you'll come back.  

But what is the point of listening to someone who doesn't go, doesn't watch it on television, never says a good word about it and wouldn't go if it was free ?

It is called frustration. I am assuming you are a fan of the old Halifax. One day you'd like them to return. One day I'd like speedway to go back to how it was, not 40 years ago, but perhaps 20 years ago. You could have been lost to the sport when Halifax closed. Many fans have been lost when they took one last punch by a bad speedway experience - a rain-off when the sun was out, an abandoned meeting after Heat 6 when the promoter had cashed the takings. They probably detached themselves from the sport and never read or heard about it again. But you, Halifaxtiger, like me, were unwilling to walk away. My hope is that we'll go back to one big league, give riders chance to race three or four times a week so they don't need double up, double down or racing in Swedish and Polish leagues.  The way it is now, the riders are getting more from it than the fans.

[The White Knight]

9 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said:

I don't know, my friend.

Phil Rising's comment that it is the worst he has known in 50 years - and he's been involved for at least that long - was scary. I can only hope there will be a resurgence, but can't see how. 

One thing though, I have no doubt that speedway - of some kind - will survive.

 

Yes - I've been around Speedway since 1964 and I feel the same as Philip.

We can only hope that he and I are wrong.

[moxey63]

I don't mind the ganging up. Here's a little story. Over 10 years ago when I was a regular on the Belle Vue site, there were many who slagged me off for my views on the way speedway was going. I got out of the habit of logging onto the site but ventured in it one time... and the number of people who were saying the same things I'd been saying just five or so years earlier. As someone else said, the BSF doesn't seem to be as busy as it used to be. But, eh, here's my voice trying to be silenced by the few who still believe the Titanic was unsinkable. 

[moxey63]

24 minutes ago, The White Knight said:

I find the whole Sport very depressing at present HT. What has happened at Rye House has got me wondering who will be next?

Sadly I find it quite feasible that a number of other Clubs could go the same way. I was stunned to hear Belle Vue mentioned as being possibly among the Tracks we need to be concerned about.

Where will it all end - I wonder?

You'll remember the amalgamation of the leagues for 1965 helped save the day for speedway, TWK. We have to do it again.

[topaz325]

6 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

I don't mind the ganging up. Here's a little story. Over 10 years ago when I was a regular on the Belle Vue site, there were many who slagged me off for my views on the way speedway was going. I got out of the habit of logging onto the site but ventured in it one time... and the number of people who were saying the same things I'd been saying just five or so years earlier. As someone else said, the BSF doesn't seem to be as busy as it used to be. But, eh, here's my voice trying to be silenced by the few who still believe the Titanic was unsinkable. 

Been very busy over the last few days, if the promoters can’t see what’s coming they must be very blinkered.

oh the next club to go.....we all know that one.

[Aces51]

The situation now is far worse than in the 50's. During that period the number of teams did drop to an alarming level but some clubs were closing because they were only getting an average of 6/8,000 fans. It was all relative. After the post war boom with crowds at some clubs reaching 40/50,000 and some higher, 8,000 seemed a disaster but what would every existing team give now for a quarter of that 8,000.

[New Science]

On ‎7‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 6:47 PM, Hot Shoe said:

Time moves on and what got you hooked isn't necessarily going to appealed to kids today. To older fans old bikes are nostalgic but show a kid and old upright bike today and it wouldn't mean a thing to him.

Once owners and promoters realise that the 1980s have gone forever then speedway can move forward.

The 1980's may have gone but I feel blessed and thankful I watched my speedway in the 80's 90's and up to 2010. This year after 30 years of going every week I'm done with league speedway in Britain for good. Don't forget to email the BSPA with all your ideas of how to attract todays modern youth so the sport can flourish again to a level it was in the 80's

[lakesidelive]

5 hours ago, ch958 said:

someone's posted on FB that Lakeside are shutting - apparently Southend Echo running the story but i couldn't see it

That was a mistake, the article is actually about Rye House but the poster assumed it was Lakeside. 

Edited July 5, 2018 by lakesidelive

[chunky]

God, this forum is so bloody depressing...

Like many other posters, I have spent a lifetime following the sport.  My parents met at Plough Lane, and I first attended when I was three weeks old.  No, I don't go now, but that is because I live 3000 miles away.  Since my dad passed away in 2003, my trips to the UK - particularly during the speedway season - have become exceedingly rare.

As a result of recent events, I too am genuinely worried for the future of speedway in the UK.  The problem with this forum - and yes, I have said this before - is that so many of the so-called "experts" still aren't looking at the big picture; they can't see past their own personal desires for themselves or their teams.  The single most important issue is that the sport is not viable for the promotions, the riders, or the fans.  We have to change that, and quickly.  Tweaking silly rules and policies will do absolutely nothing; it needs a complete overhaul - from the bottom up.

We have to stop arguing about FRN's, team strengths, and how many leagues we have.  We have to forget about getting the top stars back, or stepping on the toes of the Poles or Swedes.  We just have to do whatever it takes to ensure that British speedway - in some form - can survive.  Of course, people compare today to the 50's, but they are so totally different it is unbelievable.  Okay, we dropped to a handful of teams, but we still had thousands upon thousands of people who wanted to watch speedway.  We had numerous stadia that were not only capable of staging speedway - but WANTED to.  We had promoters who wanted to PROMOTE.

You know, in my own sport of darts, we have gone through some ups and downs in the last 30 years, but look at it now.  I used to think darts and speedway were very similar, and both suffered similar issues - including shooting ourselves in the foot!   What kept darts going was that there was always a grass roots level, with thousands of players competing in local leagues and small tournaments.  Also, even though a lot of pubs have closed, there are still plenty of places to play.  Speedway doesn't have either of those.  There is no grass-roots level with thousands of participants, and there are just a small handful of venues.  How we get round those, I have no idea.  Neither do I have any idea how we address the viability issue on a LOCAL level, let alone a national level.

This truly is killing me...

Steve

Edited July 6, 2018 by chunky

[Ray Stadia]

4 hours ago, chunky said:

God, this forum is so bloody depressing...

Like many other posters, I have spent a lifetime following the sport.  My parents met at Plough Lane, and I first attended when I was three weeks old.  No, I don't go now, but that is because I live 3000 miles away.  Since my dad passed away in 2003, my trips to the UK - particularly during the speedway season - have become exceedingly rare.

As a result of recent events, I too am genuinely worried for the future of speedway in the UK.  The problem with this forum - and yes, I have said this before - is that so many of the so-called "experts" still aren't looking at the big picture; they can't see past their own personal desires for themselves or their teams.  The single most important issue is that the sport is not viable for the promotions, the riders, or the fans.  We have to change that, and quickly.  Tweaking silly rules and policies will do absolutely nothing; it needs a complete overhaul - from the bottom up.

We have to stop arguing about FRN's, team strengths, and how many leagues we have.  We have to forget about getting the top stars back, or stepping on the toes of the Poles or Swedes.  We just have to do whatever it takes to ensure that British speedway - in some form - can survive.  Of course, people compare today to the 50's, but they are so totally different it is unbelievable.  Okay, we dropped to a handful of teams, but we still had thousands upon thousands of people who wanted to watch speedway.  We had numerous stadia that were not only capable of staging speedway - but WANTED to.  We had promoters who wanted to PROMOTE.

You know, in my own sport of darts, we have gone through some ups and downs in the last 30 years, but look at it now.  I used to think darts and speedway were very similar, and both suffered similar issues - including shooting ourselves in the foot!   What kept darts going was that there was always a grass roots level, with thousands of players competing in local leagues and small tournaments.  Also, even though a lot of pubs have closed, there are still plenty of places to play.  Speedway doesn't have either of those.  There is no grass-roots level with thousands of participants, and there are just a small handful of venues.  How we get round those, I have no idea.  Neither do I have any idea how we address the viability issue on a LOCAL level, let alone a national level.

This truly is killing me...

Steve

There is a grass roots level Steve, Grass Track racing, but that too has seriously declined over the years. When sports of any kind, suddenly become popular again, it is usually due to something changing, fundamentally, which I think is what you are suggesting needs to happen. But you also need serious financial backing for that to happen. You need some kind of entity to pick the sport up by the scruff of it's neck. I have always been surprised that wealthy ex-riders don't get together to do this, unless there aren't any wealthy ex-riders! 

Innovative thinking happened with the Speedway Grand Prix, innovative thinking and a massive cash injection is needed for league racing in the UK. I agree, rearranging the deck chairs is not going to change the dire situation.

 

[waytogo28]

12 hours ago, moxey63 said:

The way it is now, the riders are getting more from it than the fans.

That is how I feel too. It's a dive in nosebag of cash ( instead of oats ) for riders of whom there will soon be more than fans. There are about 50 fans for each rider in a match. At some clubs less than that. Do the maths of the finances. Doesn't add up at all.

12 hours ago, The White Knight said:

We can only hope that he and I are wrong

All of us hope that the slide can be halted, but hope will not carry us any nearer that happening. There will be a few "black" tracks operating outside of anything like the BSPA within 5 years - running Open meetings.  Only someone with vision ( perhaps J Chapman ) and matched with someone with serious money could pull together the best remnants of what we have at the moment.  Nothing else will do it.

[cityrebel]

11 hours ago, Aces51 said:

The situation now is far worse than in the 50's. During that period the number of teams did drop to an alarming level but some clubs were closing because they were only getting an average of 6/8,000 fans. It was all relative. After the post war boom with crowds at some clubs reaching 40/50,000 and some higher, 8,000 seemed a disaster but what would every existing team give now for a quarter of that 8,000.

Back in the 1950's there were a lot of former speedway stadiums sitting idle, ready to go. These days those options are virtually non existent.

[steve roberts]

1 minute ago, cityrebel said:

Back in the 1950's there were a lot of former speedway stadiums sitting idle, ready to go. These days those options are virtually non existent.

...Cowley Stadium is lying dormant and when it's future is eventually decided (although personally I do feel that it will be re-developed for housing) I can't envisage anyone wishing to promote speedway there with the current level of apathy towards the sport nowadays.

[moxey63]

If it had been done right, if strong teams would have released riders to help the ones languishing near the foot of the table and had no chance of making it work, I am guessing the merger of the leagues 1995-96 would have been a better option than the mini-Elite League we had in 1997. More variety with 21 sides meant you wouldn't be seeing the same old faces three times a year at your place, which must have to impact when choosing between buying the kids a new pair of trainers or seeing Wolves turn out at Belle Vue for the umpteenth time that year.

 

 

Edited July 6, 2018 by moxey63

[steve roberts]

18 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

If it had been done right, if strong teams would have released riders to help the ones languishing near the foot of the table and had no chance of making it work, I am guessing the merger of the leagues 1995-96 would have been a better option than the mini-Elite League we had in 1997. More variety with 21 sides meant you wouldn't be seeing the same old faces three times a year at your place, which must have to impact when choosing between buying the kids a new pair of trainers or seeing Wolves turn out at Belle Vue for the umpteenth time that year.

 

 

...after 'The Cheetahs' all conquering 1986 season they were the only team to release a star rider to the newly elected team Hackney prior to the 1987 season...and paid the price.

 

 

[moxey63]

44 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

...after 'The Cheetahs' all conquering 1986 season they were the only team to release a star rider to the newly elected team Hackney prior to the 1987 season...and paid the price.

 

 

I remember one season, Oxford playing the game in the right spirit and taking the first half of season Gold Cup seriously, topping the table and becoming a strong force. In the meantime, the canny clubs were taking it easy, waiting for the Elite league to begin mid-season. Rider scores counted towards averages in the Gold Cup, Oxford had become that strong they couldn't sign anyone. Meanwhile, the canny sides, not bothered with the Gold Cup, opened up their chequebook (remember them?) and the purpose of not trying paid dividends when the League fixtures came in.  

These tactics, though great for the fans of the clubs that benefitted, don't half make the sport look comical with a wider view.Again, this could be one of the instances why I became cynical with the whole sport. 

And then, more recently, wasn't there a side that was having all sorts of engine failures during matches, suggestions were at the time of some sort of manipulating going on to help bring riders in... in time for the Play-Offs. That is why I feel all the qualifying matches to get to the Play-Off semis and Final allow for all sort of tinkering. 

Edited July 6, 2018 by moxey63

[steve roberts]

15 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

I remember one season, Oxford playing the game in the right spirit and taking the first half of season Gold Cup seriously, topping the table and becoming a strong force. In the meantime, the canny clubs were taking it easy, waiting for the Elite league to begin mid-season. Rider scores counted towards averages in the Gold Cup, Oxford had become that strong they couldn't sign anyone. Meanwhile, the canny sides, not bothered with the Gold Cup, opened up their chequebook (remember them?) and the purpose of not trying paid dividends when the League fixtures came in.  

These tactics, though great for the fans of the clubs that benefitted, don't half make the sport look comical with a wider view.Again, this could be one of the instances why I became cynical with the whole sport. 

And then, more recently, wasn't there a side that was having all sorts of engine failures during matches, suggestions were at the time of some sort of manipulating going on to help bring riders in... in time for the Play-Offs. That is why I feel all the qualifying matches to get to the Play-Off semis and Final allow for all sort of tinkering. 

...remember reading an interview with Mitch Shirra whereby he admitted that Coventry were throwing race points so as to lower the overall team average for the following season.

As journalist John Chaplin was quoted as saying in one of his books if you don't want your illusions spoilt then keep your side of the fence and don't enter the sometimes murky world of what goes on behind the scenes. I guess it's been going on since speedway first hit these shores hence why I took no notice of those daft 'Sunday People' allegations.

Edited July 6, 2018 by steve roberts

[moxey63]

36 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

...remember reading an interview with Mitch Shirra whereby he admitted that Coventry were throwing race points so as to lower the overall team average for the following season.

As journalist John Chaplin was quoted as saying in one of his books if you don't want your illusions spoilt then keep your side of the fence and don't enter the sometimes murky world of what goes on behind the scenes. I guess it's been going on since speedway first hit these shores hence why I took no notice of those daft 'Sunday People' allegations.

Speedway's problem is that it has rules that encourage cheating, and the cheats often win. I don't know if getting rid of the points limit would be a better way of handling team building and revert to some kind of rider control, although that wasn't universally popular with those impacted. 

Bruce Penhall in 1982 (Overseas Final) was the first I recall someone actually not trying to win a race (he made it quite obvious). That was six years into my supporting speedway. Then came the Sunday People revelations of race-fixing. But neither put me off speedway.

But the sport seems to open itself up for abuse from the rule-benders. Even the old tac-sub, which I adored, I've heard stories of riders finishing a certain position so that his side could use a tac in the next heat. Is that cheating - or just taking one for the team? Perhaps get away with all form of tactical substitutes and just allow the programmed heats.

In football, when a bottom table side beats one of the top teams, Crystal Palace vs. Man City, you don't think City lost on purpose because they want to bring in a new signing next month or they went a goal behind in the first place because they intended to play the nominated goal rule which allowed it to count double. A win for Palace wouldn't have made me, a cynic, question it. A win for a bottom of the table speedway team again a top one... I think, "what's going on here."

Maybe I'm just a died in the wool pessimist. As a 15-year-old, in 1978, when the world was pure, as a relatively new speedway fan, I recall seasoned cellar-position side Leicester (who were not even good at home) actually winning at King's Lynn (with Michael Lee, Terry Betts...), quite good at home. When I got home from school, picked up one of the newspapers and saw this result, I was shocked. I didn't think "what's going on here." It was an honest result. When I see a good side lose to a weaker one now, I think "what's going on here." Perhaps seeing too many suspicious things along my time watching the sport has made me like this.

Seeing Crump vs. Pedersen in one of the slowest heats on World Cup record, both trying NOT to beat the other so that their country could utilise the Joker... that can't be washed from your mind.

 

Speedway allows rules that allow these things to happen. And it wonders why we are where we are, and thinks new fans will stay as patient as I did.  

Edited July 6, 2018 by moxey63

[lucifer sam]

6 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

 

Bruce Penhall in 1982 (Overseas Final) was the first I recall someone actually not trying to win a race (he made it quite obvious). That was six years into my supporting speedway. Then came the Sunday People revelations of race-fixing. But neither put me off speedway.

 

I think the race at the end of the 1981 Overseas Final was also fairly obvious.  Did you wipe it from your mind because Michael Lee and Dave Jessup were involved in it?

[moxey63]

8 minutes ago, lucifer sam said:

I think the race at the end of the 1981 Overseas Final was also fairly obvious.  Did you wipe it from your mind because Michael Lee and Dave Jessup were involved in it?

No... I didn't really notice or can even remember the incident. It wasn't that I had affection for the King's Lynn pair either, as Lee, at the time, I didn't really like...was World Champion and I was a P.C. fan. Even now, I can see Penhall performing wheelies and making it obvious. I feel that stained his character somewhat... and the way he left British speedway, of course. Still a major Star though.... yes, and he rode in Britain.

Edited July 6, 2018 by moxey63