The continuing decline of Speedway

[Tsunami]

8 minutes ago, Grachan said:

If you had give my post more though, you would see that each team would NOT be strengthened. All the teams in the top flight would be weakened. But it gives them leeway to have strong sides and stops it going down completely to CL level - plus you get the "illusion" of the high points limit to keep people happy.

With a conversion rate of 0.8, all the teams in the top league would average over 50 at present if that is applied to their current 1-7.

Why is the conversion rate not realistic? It is based on a random sample of riders using their actual rolling averages.

Cook: PL 7.64 - CL 10.23 = 74.68%

Worrall: 5.81 - 7.62 = 76.24%

Morris: 6.91 - 8.83 = 78.25%

Ellis: 6.49 - 7.92 = 81.94%

Wajknecht: 4.33 - 5.24 = 82.64%

Harris: 7.05 - 8.11 = 86.93%

Schlein: 8.00 - 8.79 = 91.01%

Average percentage = 81.67%. Perfect for a 0.8 conversion factor.

Doyle at 9.69 converts to 12.1 so 12.00 is pretty fair. Oh, and he's already desireable to fans. Because he's the World Champion. So why shouldn't Somerset have him if they feel it is within their budget?

Going from 42 points to 45 points IS strengthening.

[Grachan]

11 minutes ago, Tsunami said:

Going from 42 points to 45 points IS strengthening.

Not if you are using Championship averages and a 0.8 conversion. It weakens ALL the top flight clubs by over 6 points each.

(This is all for if the leagues merge by the way. Otherwise there's no need to apply CL averages to the current PL sides))

 

 

 

 

Edited September 12, 2018 by Grachan

[Dave Jones]

1 hour ago, Skid Sprocket said:

Can I drag us all back to what I hope some will see as a positive sign at "head office". One promoter seeing what he thinks is wrong with speedway today and prepared to seek opinions of all concerned.  Show your promoter the above statement and ask if they will give their backing to a more open minded future.  Its ok discussing on here what is wrong but only promoters can make changes. Lets have a few more promoters statements, it is us paying supporters that keep them in their job!

Fair play to the promoter concerned, he is of course spot on.

Unfortunately we've"been there " before and those that spoke up are now ex  promoters.  The unwritten rule at BSPA towers appears to be step out of line at your peril.

[theblueboy]

Its over 10 years ago since I went to Brandon to see the biggest crowd I have ever seen at a league match, admittedly it was the Play Off final between Coventry and Swindon.  A fantastic atmosphere and although ultimately a difficult evening to endure it was great to be part of the occasion. As an aside, Smolinski and Balinski were reserves on this particular day.

Since then the promoters of a significant number of clubs, in all leagues I hasten to add, have continually driven down the costs to maintain the bottom line. This has been done by weakening the league year on year, however, each year despite 'weakening the league' promoters make huge losses. I cannot think of any club, possibly with the exception of Poole, that have made a profit in those 10 years. So if the answer is to weaken the league, why are losses continually made? There must be some correlation between the weakening of the league and the number of supporters who attend on a regular basis? If people didn't care who rode then the attendances would be high and profit would be made. 

To me its two fold, weakening the product to pander to those clubs who struggle both to compete and attract supporters. I mean that's worked a treat if you use the Premiership as a barometer where only Swindon, Coventry, Poole and Wolves have won the league since 2007. That may change this season but clearly the same teams are always competitive whether you weaken the league or not. The second is the cost to attend.  In 2009 I remember paying £13 to watch Adams and Zagar plus several other good riders. I am not belittling the current crop of Swindon riders but to be fair I am not sure how many of them would get in the 2009 line up. So costs have gone up 33% but the standard has dropped considerably too.

I am not an EL snob but it is my preferred choice of speedway. The sooner that the promoters realise that supporters actually matter then the sooner that speedway can move forward, although it may be too late now. This is not football where the income generated by the supporter is irrelevant. The income from us supporters has a direct correlation on each of their clubs. It is for the promoters of each club to talk to its supporters and see what they want. In all the time I have attended regularly, which is since 2005, at no stage have I ever been asked what do I think! 

Swindon have Lee Kilby in charge of the commercial side of things and he is a breath of fresh air. He communicates with fans via Facebook and is continually looking to push the Robins forward on a commercial basis but its kinda pointless if there is hardly anyone in the stadium to enjoy the product. Grachan has said he doesn't attend regularly. The club should be asking him why he and others no longer attend regularly and trying to identify any patterns that occur from club to club. Is that not a sensible business model - giving the customer what he wants?

The promoters continue to take liberties. That is not a criticism of Tsunami or Skid Sprocket. Its a collective problem they have. They only do what is right for their club and not the benefit of the sport as a whole.

One day the promoters will have an AGM and it will be the final one because people, like many on the BSF, we will have long since cared what happens and then the promoters can do whatever they like...

[MattK]

1 hour ago, moxey63 said:

There are really two options. Cut cloth and try to rebuild the sport by using affordable riders... or run only league matches - one home and one away - so clubs don't lose that much money if the stars actually return. Won't be as costly as running for seven months.

There is a third option, decide who your target market is and TARGET THEM. At the moment when you go to a meeting the average age is over 50 and the whole meeting is geared to that demographic (music, presentation etc). That in itself isn't a problem. Over 50s is a perfectly legitimate target market.

However, most clubs seem to want to attract young people. They go into schools, increasingly use social media and so on. The problem is youngster like Fortnite, Drake and Supreme. When you go to a speedway meeting you are presented with paper programmes, AC/DC and Wulfsport. The two are completely incompatible.

Speedway either needs to promote itself to the over 50s crowd or completely change the way the sport is presented in order to appeal to a younger generation.

I know which one is more achievable.

[Skid Sprocket]

49 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

Fair play to the promoter concerned, he is of course spot on.

Unfortunately we've"been there " before and those that spoke up are now ex  promoters.  The unwritten rule at BSPA towers appears to be step out of line at your peril.

That implies that promoters are employed by the BSPA.

[Dave Jones]

21 minutes ago, Skid Sprocket said:

That implies that promoters are employed by the BSPA.

Not my intention at all. 

My view is that that it is controlled by a select few who are entrenched in their out of date thinking  and  ideas,they refuse to accept the type of changes that are required to put the sport on a better footing. A fair and transparent set of rules which apply to all would be an excellent starting point, but I'm not about to hold my breath. 

[Skid Sprocket]

3 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

Not my intention at all. 

My view is that that it is controlled by a select few who are entrenched in their out of date thinking  and  ideas,they refuse to accept the type of changes that are required to put the sport on a better footing. A fair and transparent set of rules which apply to all would be an excellent starting point, but I'm not about to hold my breath. 

All the more reason to find the like minded promoters as the one quoted. It must be a step forwards rather than going round in circles on here.

[Dave Jones]

1 minute ago, Skid Sprocket said:

All the more reason to find the like minded promoters as the one quoted. It must be a step forwards rather than going round in circles on here.

I don't disagree with the person you quoted  but i think we have  seen from past experience that anyone who tries to implement change ( particularly a new member of the organisation) is on a hiding to nothing and will forced out before he knows what's happened.

The "mafia " as I describe them don't take kindly to anyone prepared speak publicly or try to enforce any changes to their system.

It would be wonderful to see someone grab hold of this sport and put it on a proper footing, but it's going to be extremely difficult IMO.

 

[Pieman72]

Watch this space.......

[New Science]

5 hours ago, Aces51 said:

To grow the sport needs to attract new fans and they haven't got a clue who the top stars are. It made no noticeable difference to the crowds at Belle Vue when Zagar was in the team and when he wasn't.

What we need is competitive racing, sensible rules applied consistently, professional presentation with no unavoidable delays and more latitude shown to allow riders to react, within reason, to on track situations and referees decisions. Not violence but gesticulating, handbags and a bit of theatre. 

A bit like WWE wrestling but with bikes

[TB1]

Some on here may remember the Honda experiment at Sheffield a few years back. But isn't one of the reasons for the continuing decline down to riders simply can no longer afford to race and that the engine tuners are holding the sport down at gunpoint. Has anyone ever done a survey of ex riders and why they quit the sport because surely a high percentage would be purely down to costs.

How many highly talented riders have quit cos all they can afford is a lawnmower engine!

[waytogo28]

23 hours ago, New Science said:

A bit like WWE wrestling but with bikes

That would be a  lot less boring than what is served up in many matches at all levels at the moment. A boring experience overall far too often. Just read posters on here and they are some of the keenest fans around. Or read the Updates comments. Plenty of evidence as well as, ever-dwindling groups of people on the terraces at many tracks. 

[Trees]

On 9/10/2018 at 7:26 PM, Skid Sprocket said:

Same here not been on for a while, problem is there are as many different solutions as members and never any real consensus. These are the thoughts of one forward thinking promoter, there must be other promoters with similar views who need our backing and drag the sport out of the "pits";

 

Speedway in the future;  Where are we going?   A lot of you will be aware that meetings are taking place to discuss the future of speedway in the UK.   Ideas  and proposals are being put forward and arguments are being had. The topics range from league formats, how many riders in a team to how many races in a match.   We all know the sport is in trouble. Crowds are down all over the country and costs are on the up and up. Everyone has an opinion on the issues within the sport but no one, it appears, has the answers.   Since I attended my first A.G.M. last November I've been astounded at the lack of unity, cohesion and clarity within the sport and nothing has changed since.   Decision are made behind closed doors without explanation to the rest of the (promoters) association or the fans and conspiracy theories then abound as to what has happened and why.   So what do we do? Meetings keep getting planned, arguments being had. The sport is crying out for a resolution, a new way forward, positive leadership with new ideas and energetic leadership, not more of the same, quick fix ideas without thinking of the future.   Will it happen? Will someone step forward from the gloom and take the sport forward?   I simply don't know. I dearly hope so for the sport I love but there are massive dark clouds around and there doesn't appear to be a change in the weather very soon.   We need to listen to each other, the riders and the fans and formulate a framework for the good of the sport as a whole.   Let's hope a storm is coming.

The promoters are THE only ones who know financially how many fans and how much sponsorship they need to run their clubs, fans don't have a clue. 

I think between them all promoters have got all the right ingredients to run their clubs. But they need to do more.  They need to get out on the terraces during meetings with the fans, see what show/racing/promotion they are dishing up, hear what the fans have to say. I'd love to think that they could then put things right? Combined they have lots of the right skills. 

How bloody ridiculous is it that the fans have been complaining year after year about riders not celebrating with them after a race, a simple thing that means so much that promoters and riders cannot get their heads round ffs! There are 101 little things like that that would improve  fans' race night experiences which cost nothing! 

[Byker Biker]

1 hour ago, Trees said:

The promoters are THE only ones who know financially how many fans and how much sponsorship they need to run their clubs, fans don't have a clue. 

I think between them all promoters have got all the right ingredients to run their clubs. But they need to do more.  They need to get out on the terraces during meetings with the fans, see what show/racing/promotion they are dishing up, hear what the fans have to say. I'd love to think that they could then put things right? Combined they have lots of the right skills. 

How bloody ridiculous is it that the fans have been complaining year after year about riders not celebrating with them after a race, a simple thing that means so much that promoters and riders cannot get their heads round ffs! There are 101 little things like that that would improve  fans' race night experiences which cost nothing! 

Most Promoters and Team Managers have made it quite clear that this is expected of them but trying to get the riders to deliver on it leads to unnecessary confrontation at a time when every point counts. When they've got their racing heads on a lot of them can be absolute rsoles and you've got one in your team! Buy him a tyre or a bit of fuel now and again and he'll talk to you stop for a couple of weeks and he'll blank you and move on.

[Skid Sprocket]

38 minutes ago, Trees said:

The promoters are THE only ones who know financially how many fans and how much sponsorship they need to run their clubs, fans don't have a clue. 

I think between them all promoters have got all the right ingredients to run their clubs. But they need to do more.  They need to get out on the terraces during meetings with the fans, see what show/racing/promotion they are dishing up, hear what the fans have to say. I'd love to think that they could then put things right? Combined they have lots of the right skills. 

How bloody ridiculous is it that the fans have been complaining year after year about riders not celebrating with them after a race, a simple thing that means so much that promoters and riders cannot get their heads round ffs! There are 101 little things like that that would improve  fans' race night experiences which cost nothing! 

Promoters and riders need to communicate with supporters. Gone are the days when promoters could say "Its none of your business" like it or not we have social media now hopefully newer promoters will come with more s.m.skills. 

If the promoters will not talk to the supporters then the supporters will have to talk to the promoters, if not name and shame or is that too drastic?

[theblueboy]

On 9/13/2018 at 7:47 PM, Skid Sprocket said:

Promoters and riders need to communicate with supporters. Gone are the days when promoters could say "Its none of your business" like it or not we have social media now hopefully newer promoters will come with more s.m.skills. 

If the promoters will not talk to the supporters then the supporters will have to talk to the promoters, if not name and shame or is that too drastic?

What you need to do is get your team, others too, a new fan base.

As an example, and I’ll use young Kilby for this, he asked for schools to show interest so that the Robins could spread ‘the gospel’. My girlfriend, who is a teaching assistant, thought ‘the kids would love it’. She has attended a couple of meetings so knows what’s involved and keeps an eye on the results but not really a fan. The school is some 20 miles from Swindon and she sent a request to him via Facebook.

To date, and it’s approximately 12-18 months now but no acknowledgement or interest. Now, it could be Lee is busy. I know he has many hats and puts a lot of effort in but an acknowledgment or something similar would have been nice. Instead, as always, the chance to interest new people and let them know speedway is out there is missed. 

At the end of the day, I attend so it’s not me they have to convince but clubs just do not help themselves.

Promoters need to think of tomorrow not yesterday.

[waytogo28]

6 hours ago, theblueboy said:

To date, and it’s approximately 12-18 months now but no acknowledgement or interest. Now, it could be Lee is busy. I know he has many hats and puts a lot of effort in but an acknowledgment or something similar would have been nice. Instead, as always, the chance to interest new people and let them know speedway is out there is missed. 

Aha. That was my and our small group's experience. No acknowledgement or apparent interest in the positive feedback offered. Why I do not understand but except for continuing to ask for our support and "bring a friend" that is the extent of clubs perceived role for supporters.

 

6 hours ago, theblueboy said:

At the end of the day, I attend so it’s not me they have to convince but clubs just do not help themselves.

Promoters need to think of tomorrow not yesterday.

And that says it all except that personally, I am at the stage of not attending regularly, just as & when.

[orion]

I See in  the 20-20 cricket finals yesterday Worcs had a player called wood they got on loan to play 20-20 crickets from Notts This same player thou still  plays for his parent club in the four game thou ..amazed the crowd was so big seeing the same kind of thing effects the crowds so badly in speedway .

[Vincent Blachshadow]

24 minutes ago, orion said:

I See in  the 20-20 cricket finals yesterday Worcs had a player called wood they got on loan to play 20-20 crickets from Notts This same player thou still  plays for his parent club in the four game thou ..amazed the crowd was so big seeing the same kind of thing effects the crowds so badly in speedway .

But has he guested for just about every team in both leagues as well this season?