fatface Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 (edited) Watching this with semi-interest. Yes, that's where I am with the sport I once loved. We can all argue around the edges about guests, rider replacement, doubling up, play-offs, etc. Sadly, I think the promoters who run the sport have the same squabbles, rather than actually presenting a compelling vision. A few years ago I posted on here about how the sport in Britain needed to come together in one league with regional divisions and lose all GP riders in a bid to strip back costs, regain some credibility and focus on creating a better fan experience in the crumbling facilities. I now think we have gone well, well beyond that and it needs a much more radical overhaul. Beyond football (and even below the Premier League), how many professional team sports can now sustain themselves? Below the premiership, Rugby Union struggles. Rugby League clubs are under threat, County Cricket is (barely) propped up by Twenty20, Take That gigs and revenue from the international game. What hope has speedway really got? Looking back to the 70s and 80s is all well and good. But by and large pointless, it's a different era and what worked then, would not work now. My interest peaked around the early 80s going to Hyde Road. I was chuffed to recently see some YouTube videos of Belle Vue v Cradley and Belle Vue v Halifax from 1982 on YouTube - Penhall, Carter, Gundersen, Morton, Collins, jumpers for goalposts. But you know what? It was not as good as I remember it to be. Why? Back then there was much less choice and our expectations of an entertainment experience were lower - cinemas had sticky floors, football stadiums stank of p*** and live sport was not on tap 24 hours a day. Today, speedway's key market of young families has much wider choice of entertainment options and with the growth of technology, easier access to it. But they also have less disposable income and - in many cases - are up to their eyeballs in their mortgage. So, they are much more discerning and speedway has to compete harder for their share of the consumer's wallet. The key word in all this is "value." Does a typical outing to the speedway really offer value to a family of four? I don't believe it does. I think promoters have to be really creative in getting footprint into the facilities. It would require some hard work and coming together, but I think speedway's best shot is working with other sports (also struggling) and offering a full multi-sport experience to families. Let's imagine the following offering on a Saturday or Sunday or Bank Holiday Monday: 1pm - Greyhounds 2pm - Speedway 3pm - Flat Track 4pm - Sidecars 5pm - Bangers Get a hog roast, pizza oven, bouncy castle etc. and cross sell to a bigger crowd. £15 per adult, £5 per child. It is a different conversation with sponsors if you are drawing in a wider market to the site and getting much more eyeballs on their brand. Now, I am sure there are many arguments over the practical difficulties over this type of model over intricacies like track preparation, but surely none of this is impossible? British speedway has to think differently - radically differently - otherwise it will just fade away into irrelevance. Edited August 21, 2018 by falcace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byker Biker Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 Here's a link to Speedway supporters and a bouncy castle 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spl77 Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 3 hours ago, orion said: Your going a bit ott in what your saying .Who was missing in last nights matches in the premier league .Who had guests ? as I said before swindon have only made one change this year and kept 5 of the same riders they had from last year .Belle Vue and Wolves have hardly made any changes this year and have a lot of the same riders from last year as well .I think these teams made more changes 30 years ago . Speedway made a effort this year after fans kept moaning about guests, riders missing etc and in a way it's been lot better in terms of teams being the same week in week out .the trouble is all we had then was people wanting go back to riding on Friday night's etc when half the teams would be missing .the bottom line is you really can't win with speedway fans . Not really the bottom line is that a large group who used to attend as I have said week in week out come rain or shine have stopped going due to doubling up and guests because it is no longer your team but riders on hire. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 (edited) 21 hours ago, orion said: Your going a bit ott in what your saying .Who was missing in last nights matches in the premier league .Who had guests ? as I said before swindon have only made one change this year and kept 5 of the same riders they had from last year .Belle Vue and Wolves have hardly made any changes this year and have a lot of the same riders from last year as well .I think these teams made more changes 30 years ago . Speedway made a effort this year after fans kept moaning about guests, riders missing etc and in a way it's been lot better in terms of teams being the same week in week out .the trouble is all we had then was people wanting go back to riding on Friday night's etc when half the teams would be missing .the bottom line is you really can't win with speedway fans . "Belle Vue have made hardly any changes this year"...... They have had around 20 Guests..!! I take it you must be using the same 'logic'' that Trigger used in Only Fools and Horses, when he proudly told everyone that in his job he had used exactly the same road sweeping broom for the past 20 years.... And then told all present that in that time it had had just 17 new heads and 14 new handles... "Awright Dave?".... Edited August 22, 2018 by mikebv 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 On 8/21/2018 at 1:26 PM, Spl77 said: Not really the bottom line is that a large group who used to attend as I have said week in week out come rain or shine have stopped going due to doubling up and guests because it is no longer your team but riders on hire. Nonsense. Speedway has had guests and doubling up for decades. In 1977 White City won the British League with a rider replacement facility for a rider who did not appear in their colours once that season. In their 1979 Championship winning season, Coventry used 29 guests in 55 matches. In 1980 Belle Vue named Taffy Owen in the line up simply so that they could use the likes of Rob Maxfield, Steve Wilcock, Derek Richardson & Louis Carr (all riding for NL clubs) instead. I doubt very much if there is a single Belle Vue fan who would want to ditch Dan Bewley, Craig Cook or Steve Worrall simply because they double up and the same would apply ay every other club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 On 8/21/2018 at 10:07 AM, orion said: Your going a bit ott in what your saying .Who was missing in last nights matches in the premier league .Who had guests ? as I said before swindon have only made one change this year and kept 5 of the same riders they had from last year .Belle Vue and Wolves have hardly made any changes this year and have a lot of the same riders from last year as well .I think these teams made more changes 30 years ago . Speedway made a effort this year after fans kept moaning about guests, riders missing etc and in a way it's been lot better in terms of teams being the same week in week out .the trouble is all we had then was people wanting go back to riding on Friday night's etc when half the teams would be missing .the bottom line is you really can't win with speedway fans . You do have one major advantage over those who you are debating with. You actually attend speedway meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said: Nonsense. Speedway has had guests and doubling up for decades. In 1977 White City won the British League with a rider replacement facility for a rider who did not appear in their colours once that season. In their 1979 Championship winning season, Coventry used 29 guests in 55 matches. In 1980 Belle Vue named Taffy Owen in the line up simply so that they could use the likes of Rob Maxfield, Steve Wilcock, Derek Richardson & Louis Carr (all riding for NL clubs) instead. I doubt very much if there is a single Belle Vue fan who would want to ditch Dan Bewley, Craig Cook or Steve Worrall simply because they double up and the same would apply ay every other club. All true. Your post really resolves why the sport is where it is now? I think each story offers more than enough reasons why crowds have plummeted. It all sounds quirky for a time, but forty years is a long time ago and I guess people just want a genuine sport with genuine rules in 2018. We should learn from the fascinating facts you've provided and ban such things ever occurring again. It is not ok to say daft things happened 40 years ago... and so it's ok they happen now. It really shows we have learned nothing from past mistakes and will still accept anything. The modern age will not accept such shoddiness for the cash they're handing over to watch what would enable you a more professional show elsewhere in the sporting world. Bewley, Cook and Worrall, in my ideal world, would have to choose what league to race in and not have the best of both world's. Something that has to be done to save speedway and reignite it as a sport that once lay at death's door. Edited August 22, 2018 by moxey63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 30 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said: You do have one major advantage over those who you are debating with. You actually attend speedway meetings. He does not see the same meeting's as most of us he is Stevie Wonder in disguise.!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippy22 Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 32 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said: Nonsense. Speedway has had guests and doubling up for decades. In 1977 White City won the British League with a rider replacement facility for a rider who did not appear in their colours once that season. In their 1979 Championship winning season, Coventry used 29 guests in 55 matches. In 1980 Belle Vue named Taffy Owen in the line up simply so that they could use the likes of Rob Maxfield, Steve Wilcock, Derek Richardson & Louis Carr (all riding for NL clubs) instead. I doubt very much if there is a single Belle Vue fan who would want to ditch Dan Bewley, Craig Cook or Steve Worrall simply because they double up and the same would apply ay every other club. Doubling up was only on a small scale, and usually the riders concerned, belonged to the top division club, and were loaned out to the second division team. Nowadays the Premier League teams are more or less a "Championship Select" team, plus 1 or 2 full time Premier riders. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spl77 Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Halifaxtiger said: Nonsense. Speedway has had guests and doubling up for decades. In 1977 White City won the British League with a rider replacement facility for a rider who did not appear in their colours once that season. In their 1979 Championship winning season, Coventry used 29 guests in 55 matches. In 1980 Belle Vue named Taffy Owen in the line up simply so that they could use the likes of Rob Maxfield, Steve Wilcock, Derek Richardson & Louis Carr (all riding for NL clubs) instead. I doubt very much if there is a single Belle Vue fan who would want to ditch Dan Bewley, Craig Cook or Steve Worrall simply because they double up and the same would apply ay every other club. So you're telling me I don't know why myself and my group of friends no longer go? Unbelievable another head stuck in the sand its always been that way chap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 Guests are a problem. Doubling up is a problem. But if both those rules were wiped out overnight, does anyone honestly think the crowds would flood to speedway? The sport needs fundamental change, not fiddling around at the edges. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Stadia Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Sidney the robin said: He does not see the same meeting's as most of us he is Stevie Wonder in disguise.!!!! I didn't know Stevie Wonder is a speedway fan! I should have realised....'Ebony and Ivory'....is all about the speedway chequed flag! Edited August 22, 2018 by Ray Stadia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spl77 Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 9 minutes ago, falcace said: Guests are a problem. Doubling up is a problem. But if both those rules were wiped out overnight, does anyone honestly think the crowds would flood to speedway? The sport needs fundamental change, not fiddling around at the edges. No they wouldn't. But that's the starting point of making the sport a credible team sport. You then have to get the message out that the sport is changing. After which you have got to undo 25 to 30 years of appalling mismanagement and build from the ground up. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWC Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 The majority of people I know who watch speedway on tv and never attend say they watch it purely for the spectacle and sadly have no interest in teams or their riders. Magnify that across the country and team speedway doesn’t have the draw it once had. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rabbit Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, GWC said: The majority of people I know who watch speedway on tv and never attend say they watch it purely for the spectacle and sadly have no interest in teams or their riders. Magnify that across the country and team speedway doesn’t have the draw it once had. That, unfortunately, was always the danger when Sky started their regular transmissions that the ones you mention would be joined by speedway attendees staying away from the tracks and getting their fix on tv. It made the break for me and Mrs R easier when we decided enough was enough after the events of a few winters back. That only lasted a few matches though before we gave the whole thing up - in this country, at least. Edited August 22, 2018 by Barney Rabbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 (edited) 19 hours ago, Spl77 said: No they wouldn't. But that's the starting point of making the sport a credible team sport. You then have to get the message out that the sport is changing. After which you have got to undo 25 to 30 years of appalling mismanagement and build from the ground up. I wish that were true. But if the message going out is that speedway no longer has guests, speedway no longer doubles up, speedway no longer has rider replacement, speedway no longer has the joker, then I am sorry to say that will sway very few people to spend their precious time and money on the sport. I hear you, credibility is an issue. But there are plenty of credible sports out there struggling to make that the sport's main priority. People do not go to speedway because the whole entertainment package does not offer good enough value. I've given my pitch on a previous page how it might go about this. Edited August 23, 2018 by falcace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 5 hours ago, Sidney the robin said: He does not see the same meeting's as most of us he is Stevie Wonder in disguise.!!!! Says a man who thinks josh auty should get a wildcard at Cardiff lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinmauger Posted August 23, 2018 Report Share Posted August 23, 2018 4 hours ago, GWC said: The majority of people I know who watch speedway on tv and never attend say they watch it purely for the spectacle and sadly have no interest in teams or their riders. Magnify that across the country and team speedway doesn’t have the draw it once had. Same here, mostly to cheer on Woffinden in the GPs. His image / look helps as they are bikers, but they enjoyed GB in the SON (The Woffy & Lambert Show)..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 23, 2018 Report Share Posted August 23, 2018 (edited) On 8/22/2018 at 12:16 AM, mikebv said: "Belle Vue have made hardly any changes this year"...... They have had around 20 Guests..!! I take it you must be using the same 'logic'' that Trigger used in Only Fools and Horses, when he proudly told everyone that in his job he had used exactly the same road sweeping broom for the past 20 years.... And then told all present that in that time it had had just 17 new heads and 14 new handles... "Awright Dave?".... First of all as I on about riders being replaced form the starting 7 due to poor form, not how many guests were used during a season . but as we are on the subject could you list me these 20 guests that Belle Vue used this year and in what meetings ...after putting the above up you must pretty sure that you are correct ..otherwise it would be a bit like turning up as Batman and Robin at a wake ..looking forward hearing from you Del Boy ..should be a great read Edited August 23, 2018 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 23, 2018 Report Share Posted August 23, 2018 3 hours ago, orion said: First of all as I on about riders being replaced form the starting 7 due to poor form, not how many guests were used during a season . but as we are on the subject could you list me these 20 guests that Belle Vue used this year and in what meetings ...after putting the above up you must pretty sure that you are correct ..otherwise it would be a bit like turning up as Batman and Robin at a wake ..looking forward hearing from you Del Boy ..should be a great read Apologies Trigg, I stand corrected..... Only SIXTEEN Guests used... (Perfectly acceptable)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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