Grachan Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said: There's no point wringing one's hands about social changes and trying to turn back the clock - it's happened, and will continue to happen, and unless the entertainment adapts then it's not going to survive. I think stopped going to pubs for a variety of reasons unrelated to laziness. The sad reality is that despite all the claims about pubs having to diversity with food and satellite television and the like, most pubs were sustained by a hardcore of regular drinkers who now prefer to buy cheaper supermarket booze and watch on Sky on their own big screen televisions where they can smoke as well. The trend was already happening, but the smoking ban was the final nail in the coffin for a lot of pubs. Yes, the smoking ban was major in the downfall of pubs. Pubs that have survived seem to be those who have successfully adapted to a more food/family based business or managed to attract a "clubbing" crowd.. The old style "locals" in town centres seem to struggle, with perhaps one or two regaining clientele while others have shut down. Interestingly, like speedway, if you look in a regular pub these days most of the people in there tend to be over 50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 (edited) 22 hours ago, moxey63 said: I always thought the last month or so of the season after the Play-Offs was sort of left in the air regarding fixture and there seemed nothing left to grab the fans. Also the story a few posts back of Belle Vue having to race six meetings in a two week period to meet the cut-offs was bad business as crowds dropped for those meetings as people couldn't afford it. But, eh, we had a bumper crowd in the Play-Off. Backlog of fixtures is not a new thing. I once bought the Speedway Stars for the 1967 season, and looking through them, Swindon had a massive backlog of fixtures, and had to add an extra double-header meeting on a Friday in August to try and catch up. Their season also extended into November due to incomplete fixtures. Other notables from that year that would be seen as "Speedway RIP" now, included a Swindon meeting in pouring rain, with times of over 80 seconds, that was immediately called off after heat 6 (once there were no refunds). The match report commented that there could be no complaints from the fans, as the meeting should never really have started in the first place. Imagine that happening now. Swindon had the re-run their match at King's Lynn as the first one was declared void because KL used an "illegal" side. Speedway RIP again? It was also then decided that King's Lynn, despite being bottom of the league, were not allowed to sign Ove Fundin. Then Belle Vue - in contention for the title - were allowed to sign him to boost their title hopes. What? Teams at the top making changes and bringing in top riders to increase their title hopes? Surely that's just because of the play-offs? Speedway RIP again? If there was social media at the time there would have been uproar. I guess people were more prepared to put up with stuff back then then they are now. That's probably the main difference. Edited August 20, 2018 by Grachan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Grachan said: Backlog of fixtures is not a new thing. I once bought the Speedway Stars for the 1967 season, and looking through them, Swindon had a massive backlog of furnitures, and had to add an extra double-header meeting on a Friday in August to try and catch up. Their season also extended into November due to incomplete fixtures. 3 Was that when they were best remembered for house clearances? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 minute ago, moxey63 said: Was that when they were best remembered for house clearances? Well, I think you know what I meant Fixtures! One notable thing from that year - Barry Briggs injured himself riding in Germany and was out for a few weeks. No guest. Swindon had to ride with their number 8 riding at number one. And they ended up winning the league. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 The young, as has been stated, are more interested in their own things. But, remember, folks... don't use this as an excuse, what about other age groups? Think we've fallen into a trap in which it's the young we think will save speedway. Win back the oldies and even the new oldies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, moxey63 said: The young, as has been stated, are more interested in their own things. But, remember, folks... don't use this as an excuse, what about other age groups? Think we've fallen into a trap in which it's the young we think will save speedway. Win back the oldies and even the new oldies. Spot on... Many comments are put forward about people not knowing about the sport but I would suggest there are literally tens of thousands of ex fans all within a close proximity to the tracks they used to frequent.. Get them back and don't make the same mistakes again that made them give up on the Sport in the first place.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 42 minutes ago, mikebv said: Spot on... Many comments are put forward about people not knowing about the sport but I would suggest there are literally tens of thousands of ex fans all within a close proximity to the tracks they used to frequent.. Get them back and don't make the same mistakes again that made them give up on the Sport in the first place.. Correct me if I'm wrong, mikebv, but was it you who posted the Play-Offs and the fact that Belle Vue lost them to Wolves and the recently introduced Tai Woffinden all but distinguished their returning interest when they tried the new track three years ago? It proves the POs can wipe out quite a sizeable group if so. I think the rules and set up have to be foolproof to keep any new or returning fans coming back. That is why it's good that old fans who no longer attend can still post why they stopped attending. Better than just vanishing and providing no feedback as to why. It would be nice to know, apart from popping their clogs of course, why fans stop coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinmauger Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 6 hours ago, mikebv said: I would suggest the 'novelty value' was a big factor, as was the fact the meeting had credibility when so many don't... The same as when a 'World Star' comes back to domestic racing. ie the crowds increase for the first few weeks but then drift back to normal as the season progresses and he starts to miss meetings through other commitments and the Guestfest merry go round starts.. Maybe that is the the way forward though? Less being more?... Put on fewer meetings but give every one of them a meaning? Run say once a month giving the promotion ample time to actually promote every event? I never buy into the view that people stop going if there are long gaps between meetings, as if the meetings were promoted correctly the next one should be highly anticipated and deliver a good expectant crowd. And if the previous meeting was any good then surely that can only increase the anticipation for the next one? Cardiff runs just once a year, yet everyone knows when it is and therefore attends... As with so much of British Speedway, a huge amount of its problem is down to a lack of active ongoing promotion and of course trying to sell a product that simply often lacks credibility... Maybe worth reflecting on that it sounds like this Test Match had both and a decent crowd duly arrived... (And at short notice too).. My point (in a round about way as I was tired) was if folk don't rurn out to watch a special or at least different high-ish profile meetings then the sport is in a worse state than thought. E.g. my first ever meeting was a World Champs Qualy at Hull in 1974, when I told regulars I was going that nite quite a few said they weren't going as it wouldn't be as good as a match but that I would still enjoy it. I did ! It was the same when Hull staged England v Australasia or USA, some locals gave them a miss but more fans from out of town attended and so the crowds were bigger anyway. The GB v Aussie match showed that folk ( more folk? ) will still attend such meetings if they feel they are worth watching & value for money, Cardiff GP being the most obvious example. Seen that too.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spl77 Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 2 hours ago, Grachan said: Backlog of fixtures is not a new thing. I once bought the Speedway Stars for the 1967 season, and looking through them, Swindon had a massive backlog of fixtures, and had to add an extra double-header meeting on a Friday in August to try and catch up. Their season also extended into November due to incomplete fixtures. Other notables from that year that would be seen as "Speedway RIP" now, included a Swindon meeting in pouring rain, with times of over 80 seconds, that was immediately called off after heat 6 (once there were no refunds). The match report commented that there could be no complaints from the fans, as the meeting should never really have started in the first place. Imagine that happening now. Swindon had the re-run their match at King's Lynn as the first one was declared void because KL used an "illegal" side. Speedway RIP again? It was also then decided that King's Lynn, despite being bottom of the league, were not allowed to sign Ove Fundin. Then Belle Vue - in contention for the title - were allowed to sign him to boost their title hopes. What? Teams at the top making changes and bringing in top riders to increase their title hopes? Surely that's just because of the play-offs? Speedway RIP again? If there was social media at the time there would have been uproar. I guess people were more prepared to put up with stuff back then then they are now. That's probably the main difference. There you have it. Speedway has been making the same mistakes for the last 50 years and seems to have no interest or no idea on how to change. Back then maybe people were prepared to put up with it. Those who weren't walked away. Those that walked away didn't therfore bring their children along so the next generation of fans became smaller and so the trend carried on for 50 years until we reach the point we have today. Its sad that those in charge over all these years have done nothing to try and fix the known problems. Those that have tried and then given up have either concentrated on their own business ie Ford at Poole or walked away ie Berry at Ipswich in the 80s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rabbit Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 2 hours ago, mikebv said: Spot on... Many comments are put forward about people not knowing about the sport but I would suggest there are literally tens of thousands of ex fans all within a close proximity to the tracks they used to frequent.. Get them back and don't make the same mistakes again that made them give up on the Sport in the first place.. I point I made some time ago but was told in no uncertain terms by an ex promoter on here that if I could just stop going for the reasons I did it was because I was never a fan in the first place. That despite having been to every track in the country, gone to most GP tracks, watched domestic speedway in Australia, Poland, Sweden, USA and New Zealand over a period of over forty years. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 3 hours ago, mikebv said: Spot on... Many comments are put forward about people not knowing about the sport but I would suggest there are literally tens of thousands of ex fans all within a close proximity to the tracks they used to frequent.. Get them back and don't make the same mistakes again that made them give up on the Sport in the first place.. Truly that would be problem solved but the promoters still seem unwilling to listen to the fans about what they want to buy. One of the reasons that so many shops close down. At least a few hundred, if not 1,000 ex-fans would return to King's Lynn if they liked what was on offer there now. Clearly, they don't and that is why attendances have more than halved in five years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrybishop Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 On 8/19/2018 at 2:44 PM, Trees said: If you were part of the Premiership what night would you run on? Thats a tough question because it is something we would only do if it was sustainable and there was a real hunger for it. But regardless of league we could only ride on the Tuesday or a Thursday under the current planning and other tenant restrictions we currently have. Certainly food for thought for the future though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 Perhaps we look at the wrong way. Attracting old fans back might be easier than attracting completely new ones. They'll already know the basics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrybishop Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 4 hours ago, moxey63 said: The young, as has been stated, are more interested in their own things. But, remember, folks... don't use this as an excuse, what about other age groups? Think we've fallen into a trap in which it's the young we think will save speedway. Win back the oldies and even the new oldies. No one demographic age group will transform speedway in my opinion but of course we must try to be attractive to all. I have been watching things on the island and I have posted this before about what is happening here. We are getting lots of groups of families and couples who make "new" friends at speedway. Now when I was a child I had my friends at school, sea cadets, local to home and speedway and every group of friends was different - had my friends at speedway dropped off, I probably, would have left too. In fact I did leave for a while as a child with the sea cadets until speedway changed it race night again and I was straight back. My point is attracting news fans, rekindling the love of former fans has to be gelled by something and that something in my view is the club, the community (in whatever form) and friendships - that strengthens the fan base, encourages away travel and social activity which in turn brings in new fans, new sponsors, new momentum.... sounds easy I guess, but we all know it is not and on the Island we started from scratch and slowly, slowly we are now seeing momentum in every part of the club. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 3 hours ago, martinmauger said: My point (in a round about way as I was tired) was if folk don't rurn out to watch a special or at least different high-ish profile meetings then the sport is in a worse state than thought. E.g. my first ever meeting was a World Champs Qualy at Hull in 1974, when I told regulars I was going that nite quite a few said they weren't going as it wouldn't be as good as a match but that I would still enjoy it. I did ! It was the same when Hull staged England v Australasia or USA, some locals gave them a miss but more fans from out of town attended and so the crowds were bigger anyway. The GB v Aussie match showed that folk ( more folk? ) will still attend such meetings if they feel they are worth watching & value for money, Cardiff GP being the most obvious example. Seen that too.... One of the biggest frustrations is that the Sport itself still can generate great crowds in this Country when it is done well... The meeting you allude to in Glasgow was promoted well (as the Glasgow promotion seem to do, even at short notice)... And it had credibility as both teams were represented by riders from their own nations... Which got me thinking.. Imagine if NKI the Danish Champion had been advertised as guesting for Australia to replace Jason Doyle (as could conceivably have happened if it was a Premiership match)... Ludicrous to suggest it I know but that is effectively what British Speedway does each week... If it was allowed to happen in that Test Match, even with lots of promotion, I can guarantee the crowd would have been several hundred lower. (In fact promoting it would have done more harm than good)... Tens of thousands of fans who don't attend British Speedway regularly attend Cardiff every year proving that their is a market for the Sport... However. Until it runs itself like a proper sport, at a price point that reflects its value, (rather than at a price point delivered in hope it will cover the participants costs) it simply wont work... When you cannot promote what's on show with any real conviction and belief in your product then you do have problems I reckon.. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 8 hours ago, moxey63 said: Correct me if I'm wrong, mikebv, but was it you who posted the Play-Offs and the fact that Belle Vue lost them to Wolves and the recently introduced Tai Woffinden all but distinguished their returning interest when they tried the new track three years ago? It proves the POs can wipe out quite a sizeable group if so. I think the rules and set up have to be foolproof to keep any new or returning fans coming back. That is why it's good that old fans who no longer attend can still post why they stopped attending. Better than just vanishing and providing no feedback as to why. It would be nice to know, apart from popping their clogs of course, why fans stop coming. How does prove anything ..got any stats or figures ? what about the wolves fans who went back to Wolves because Woffy came back and they won the play offs . old fans won't come back anyhow as they enjoy moaning to much, that is why even they don't to speedway they spend time on a forum going on about the past . The sport needs to aim at young fans not people stuck in 1975 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 3 hours ago, mikebv said: And it had credibility as both teams were represented by riders from their own nations... Which got me thinking.. Imagine if NKI the Danish Champion had been advertised as guesting for Australia to replace Jason Doyle (as could conceivably have happened if it was a Premiership match)... Ludicrous to suggest it I know but that is effectively what British Speedway does each week... But we had guests when speedway was massive ..it ludicrous to think that a team who are not champions can win the champions league but guess what it happens in football . What about Cricket ? they have a rule that when you they show a video review you can be given not out even when you are . As I said before you get hold any sport and find so called ludicrous rules but as the champions league shows it does not always stop crowds coming Look at this year ..let have fixed race nights so we have less guests ..so they do it and then the fans moan that they what there own race night back even if it means having a team full of guests .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk127 Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, orion said: How does prove anything ..got any stats or figures ? what about the wolves fans who went back to Wolves because Woffy came back and they won the play offs . old fans won't come back anyhow as they enjoy moaning to much, that is why even they don't to speedway they spend time on a forum going on about the past . The sport needs to aim at young fans not people stuck in 1975 . Have you ever thought about trying to put together a sentence that makes sense with the correct punctuation. You also ought to think about your grammar and consider your construction of a balanced argument as your failure on both counts leaves a lot to be desired. I doubt that few if any can take you seriously and however much you complain, insult and show your opposition to to an ageing population, which you continually portray throughout your posts, you simply belittle your standing in terms of being taken seriously but I doubt you even understand that. Winge as much as you like about the older generation but at least most of us have had a life, have had an education and show respect for others all of which seems to escape you and is beyond your comprehension. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Hawk127 said: Have you ever thought about trying to put together a sentence that makes sense with the correct punctuation. You also ought to think about your grammar and consider your construction of a balanced argument as your failure on both counts leaves a lot to be desired. I doubt that few if any can take you seriously and however much you complain, insult and show your opposition to to an ageing population, which you continually portray throughout your posts, you simply belittle your standing in terms of being taken seriously but I doubt you even understand that. Winge as much as you like about the older generation but at least most of us have had a life, have had an education and show respect for others all of which seems to escape you and is beyond your comprehension. And you can't add up ..got the answer on on how you replaced 50 % of gate money yet ? no point getting bitter because you still can't find a reply . And no point going on about education when can't answer a simple maths question . What are going to do run off again ? ps is your space bar broken ? Edited August 20, 2018 by orion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk127 Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, orion said: And you can't add up ..got the answer on or how you replaced 50 % of gate money yet ? no point getting bitter because you still can't find a reply . Did you missed the maths classes under this great education you got ? What are going to do run off again ? If that Is the best you have it confirms what I said. I run a successful business and just enjoy reading pathetic responses like yours. Time to do something interesting so I will leave you to your arguments. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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