The continuing decline of Speedway

[moxey63]

5 minutes ago, Midland Red said:

Play offs have coincided with a downturn in interest in the rest of the domestic season

This shows how spectator attitudes have changed, as I alluded to earlier

They have also coincided with, and generated, a move away from entertainment for the spectators, replaced by rule-bending, greedy and selfish attitudes of certain individuals, on both sides of the safety fence

"Let's get away with 10 heats" seems to be the norm now, rather than provide an evening's entertainment of 20+ races 

We will never know what impact the Play-Offs have had on the sport since 2002. How many new people have they attracted, how many lost because of frustration their team was robbed on the line. If it keeps the few that remain and clicks the turnstiles every week, then it'll have to do. But there seems total frustration by most, many seemingly have disappeared from even posting on a forum like this one. That is a worry.   

Edited August 18, 2018 by moxey63

[waytogo28]

12 hours ago, theblueboy said:

The issue lies squarely with the promoters but speedway has gone too far now. It’s dead in the water and there is no turning back. There is no infrastructure or thought process of where they are going or what they want to do. It’s hand to mouth every season with the promise of a new dawn.

Its the promoters that have done everything on a fag packet not Orion. 

This is a fact, not some bleating moaner going on and on ( and on, as I have been accused of doing ). When they do get together at the AGM so little seems to be fully thought through and fans with a bit of nous can see where the problems will crop up. So why can't those who are investing in it ( or taking out of it, as some must do when all income streams are taken into account ) see it as well? The death knell has already sounded for UK speedway ( as we know it ).

[theblueboy]

4 hours ago, steve roberts said:

...I agrre with much of what you say but Orion doesn't make a case, or give examples, on how speedway should or could move forward except he keeps quoting Play-Offs as like other sports (American Football and American Ice Hockey played in the States adopt a different system which is essentially a Knock Out system beyond the Conference League stage). Speedway's problems lay much deeper than that. Media coverage and hype has helped tremendously by pushing certain sports and despite SKY's involvement with speedway the same thing never happened. A missed opportunity and one has to ask the question why?

I think that we all agree that speedway promoters have basically created issues within the sport with constantly altering formats and/or rules etc etc but the bottom line is that speedway appears to be going no where and in my view unless a Head of Administration is adopted (which is very unlikely) I can't see any progress. The sport needs a modern Mike Parker or John Berry to initiate a massive change but do the public, as a whole, now get excited about bikes going round in circles and environmental issues?

In answer to your missive, the promoters have failed to give the public what they want. Every year supporters come on here hoping for a change to the product. Broadly, most supporters want the same thing, so why do they continually ignore us?

I don’t know of any business that has a business model similar to speedway, well Woolworths, BHS and House of Fraser, might have. 

Speedway in the 70’s and 80’s was no better than speedway today. I have seen excerpts of You Tube from yesteryear. This blinkered understanding that people passed and repassed is not true. Conversely, I have watched various meetings in Poland and Sweden this season that have been absolute pants. What it tells me is that speedway is the same product then as it is now. The odd good meeting in amongst the usual gate and go.

I go every week because I am old romantic . The promoters rely on me and others like me but we are an ever decreasing support base. The various promoters in the various leagues have failed to grasp what is required to drive the sport forward. There is no joined up thinking or thought for the supporter.

The presentation, the music, the stadia, the inconsistency of the rules applications by referees and the SCB plus the track preparation in this country is damn right embarrassing (that’s a general statement re tracks as there are one or two that would be exempt).

I mean at Swindon on Thursday they trotted out the Spice Girls, a sport where 90% of the supporters are men they played that sh*t. Add in Now 1 and 2 and you have the complete music collection of Swindon speedway. The track was again in a poor state, Troy Batchelor is not everyone’s favourite rider but at least he has a pair and says it how it is. The rules and their interpretations vary from week to week depending on the referee or which promoter is asking the favour.

There is no long term plan or strategy. They introduced the draft system, they f*cked that up. Fixed race nights, they introduced that, ballsed that up. They had tv exposure and a decent contract, chucked that down the toilet.

Play offs apart, I cannot think of anything that has enhanced the sport in recent times.

Everything these fools touch turns to dust. If speedway was a horse, we wouldn’t hesitate...

[moxey63]

2 minutes ago, theblueboy said:

In answer to your missive, the promoters have failed to give the public what they want. Every year supporters come on here hoping for a change to the product. Broadly, most supporters want the same thing, so why do they continually ignore us?

I don’t know of any business that has a business model similar to speedway, well Woolworths, BHS and House of Fraser, might have. 

Speedway in the 70’s and 80’s was no better than speedway today. I have seen excerpts of You Tube from yesteryear. This blinkered understanding that people passed and repassed is not true. Conversely, I have watched various meetings in Poland and Sweden this season that have been absolute pants. What it tells me is that speedway is the same product then as it is now. The odd good meeting in amongst the usual gate and go.

I go every week because I am old romantic . The promoters rely on me and others like me but we are an ever decreasing support base. The various promoters in the various leagues have failed to grasp what is required to drive the sport forward. There is no joined up thinking or thought for the supporter.

The presentation, the music, the stadia, the inconsistency of the rules applications by referees and the SCB plus the track preparation in this country is damn right embarrassing (that’s a general statement re tracks as there are one or two that would be exempt).

I mean at Swindon on Thursday they trotted out the Spice Girls, a sport where 90% of the supporters are men they played that sh*t. Add in Now 1 and 2 and you have the complete music collection of Swindon speedway. The track was again in a poor state, Troy Batchelor is not everyone’s favourite rider but at least he has a pair and says it how it is. The rules and their interpretations vary from week to week depending on the referee or which promoter is asking the favour.

There is no long term plan or strategy. They introduced the draft system, they f*cked that up. Fixed race nights, they introduced that, ballsed that up. They had tv exposure and a decent contract, chucked that down the toilet.

Play offs apart, I cannot think of anything that has enhanced the sport in recent times.

Everything these fools touch turns to dust. If speedway was a horse, we wouldn’t hesitate...

I am certainly not saying speedway racing was better in the seventies. At the time, it was certainly more interesting and grabbed the attention more than what's on offer today. Was it the bikes were harder to race, the tracks more grippy and rutty, therefore there was a sense of riders making mistakes and other capitalising on them. I certainly recall riders coming back after a heat and being unable to speak, it was that hard out there.  Now, it seems so easy compared to back then. A few videos on Youtube don't tell the whole story. There were lots of characters and, unlike modern day, few hoping to make a name for themselves from with all the glam stuff a heatleader back in the day would have had to dance for.  I used to go to watch Belle Vue v Halifax in the early eighties for one reason - Kenny Carter. The Dukes were dross all the time, but seeing your top men against him and what could happen was worth entrance money. You'd certainly not wish to miss it.

[Halifaxtiger]

21 hours ago, orion said:

Most of the matches are poor as a rule and it's not just the racing it's the whole event that Speedway fails on ..overall speedway is poor in all area's 

I don't agree about the racing at least. As I said earlier, Somerset on Wednesday was brilliant. Isle of Wight on Thursday was good, and while Plymouth last night was merely OK heat 13 was just stunning - one of the best races I have seen this season anywhere. 

Certain - and I'd accept many - clubs drag down the reputation of the sport by not putting sufficient effort in to make sure that the paying fan has a good night. As Bob C said to me so accurately last night, all you get is lets have your money, here's 15 heats. That's not good enough.

But when did you see an adverse post about Isle of Wight ? They haven't got a magic wand, so every club could gain the same reputation if they tried hard enough and the worst bit is that the Warriors standing has not been created by spending vast amounts of money or taking huge amounts of time. In fact, its pretty simple : they care.

18 hours ago, orion said:

No one in any sport has ever said that  the play offs are fair ..the play off have always used to keep the season open for more teams  and make them money .also every understands the rules before hand .

without play offs and nothing to race for the modern fan will not go  and clubs will go bus,t in fact play offs in speedway are more important  than any other sport ..I ask again why would you watch a speedway match between a 4th and 5th team who have no chance of winning the league under the rules you want ? you said every match would count so explain what that would count for .

 

I think you are right here and would question how many of those who criticise the play off system have actually been to one of the meetings. As I have said before, Mildenhall-Scunthorpe NL final a few years ago was easily one of the best matches I have seen. The Belle Vue - Wolverhampton meeting had everything that speedway should have - fantastic racing, a huge crowd, electric atmosphere. It doesn't get any better than that, and speedway just isn't in a position to ignore the almost sell out gates the finals attract.

14 hours ago, Midland Red said:

Why has the reason for attending changed so much - it was always the situation that (enter night applicable) was Speedway night, irrespective of the team's league position, or the opposition, it was to get our weekly fill and see "our team" - yes, it was good to win (happiness is 40-38) but it didn't really matter, or affect next week's attendance - probably only the two weeks annual holidays caused missing a home meeting

Here I've just read that fans wouldn't attend a meeting if it only involved 4th and 5th in a non-play off league - does no one go to watch and enjoy Speedway racing anymore?  Probably that's been lost due to lack of continuity of fixtures, lack of consistency of team makeup, doubling up/down

The "good old days" WERE good - there don't seem to be many good days in 2018 - that's why some of us do look back to seek how to improve things

But there does seem to be a different attitude from spectators, only winning matters now

I don't think there is any difference today, save for the attendance levels. We have always (50 years anyway) had guests, points limits, tactical changes and everything else people complain about. The racing is just as good (or bad) as it ever was. 

I also think that it has always been substantially about winning, and that doesn't just apply to speedway but any sport. Watching your team get humped every week means that attending can - for some - become a chore. Ask a Sheffield supporter right now.

13 hours ago, theblueboy said:

 

Rugby league adapted. It couldn’t compete with football. They needed to change. So they moved it’s season to accommodate Sky, have a Magic Weekend, play on lovely pitches and it’s a fast paced sport. Far better than the crap that filled up Grandstand’s schedule from 15.55 - 16.40 when I was a boy in the 70’s when it was pouring with rain and Bradford Northern beat Featherstone 4-2 in a absolute hummdinger. 

 

 

I read an article recently (it has been reprinted in a number of speedway programmes) that said that Rugby League was facing a serious financial crisis and that only a handful of clubs are financially viable. Speedway isn't alone.

11 hours ago, chunky said:

 

 

57 minutes ago, Midland Red said:

Play offs have coincided with a downturn in interest in the rest of the domestic season

This shows how spectator attitudes have changed, as I alluded to earlier

They have also coincided with, and generated, a move away from entertainment for the spectators, replaced by rule-bending, greedy and selfish attitudes of certain individuals, on both sides of the safety fence

"Let's get away with 10 heats" seems to be the norm now, rather than provide an evening's entertainment of 20+ races 

I'd question whether play offs have indeed led to decreased interest. After all, every match is still important - the current position in the Premiership being an obvious example. That's surely better financially than one team winning the league in mid August and others having 5 or 10 absolutely meaning less fixtures to complete.

Absolutely agree on the 'rule bending, greedy and selfish attitudes'. Until some put the interests of the sport as a whole before their own (and at the expense of others) speedway will continue to be on its knees.

[moxey63]

5 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said:

I don't agree about the racing at least. As I said earlier, Somerset on Wednesday was brilliant. Isle of Wight on Thursday was good, and while Plymouth last night was merely OK heat 13 was just stunning - one of the best races I have seen this season anywhere. 

Certain - and I'd accept many - clubs drag down the reputation of the sport by not putting sufficient effort in to make sure that the paying fan has a good night. As Bob C said to me so accurately last night, all you get is lets have your money, here's 15 heats. That's not good enough.

But when did you see an adverse post about Isle of Wight ? They haven't got a magic wand, so every club could gain the same reputation if they tried hard enough and the worst bit is that the Warriors standing has not been created by spending vast amounts of money or taking huge amounts of time. In fact, its pretty simple : they care.

I think you are right here and would question how many of those who criticise the play off system have actually been to one of the meetings. As I have said before, Mildenhall-Scunthorpe NL final a few years ago was easily one of the best matches I have seen. The Belle Vue - Wolverhampton meeting had everything that speedway should have - fantastic racing, a huge crowd, electric atmosphere. It doesn't get any better than that, and speedway just isn't in a position to ignore the almost sell out gates the finals attract.

I don't think there is any difference today, save for the attendance levels. We have always (50 years anyway) had guests, points limits, tactical changes and everything else people complain about. The racing is just as good (or bad) as it ever was. 

I also think that it has always been substantially about winning, and that doesn't just apply to speedway but any sport. Watching your team get humped every week means that attending can - for some - become a chore. Ask a Sheffield supporter right now.

I read an article recently (it has been reprinted in a number of speedway programmes) that said that Rugby League was facing a serious financial crisis and that only a handful of clubs are financially viable. Speedway isn't alone.

 

I'd question whether play offs have indeed led to decreased interest. After all, every match is still important - the current position in the Premiership being an obvious example. That's surely better financially than one team winning the league in mid August and others having 5 or 10 absolutely meaning less fixtures to complete.

Absolutely agree on the 'rule bending, greedy and selfish attitudes'. Until some put the interests of the sport as a whole before their own (and at the expense of others) speedway will continue to be on its knees.

The Play-Offs are like the Champions League group stages in football. They allow for so many mistakes. I remember Arsenal qualifying in a six match group after losing their first three matches. Every PO match is still important, but they then lack importance becausue of the number of matches you're allowed to lose to fiddle in new riders and still reach the top four. So they have watered down the importance of every match being important, as they were in the old league system. It allows half most of the teams in a seven club league to have a shout. It is fake, but in an era where you've got to be a winner, if it helps keeps speedway going, then that's important. But it won't win me back.

[Halifaxtiger]

2 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

The Play-Offs are like the Champions League group stages in football. They allow for so many mistakes. I remember Arsenal qualifying in a six match group after losing their first three matches. Every PO match is still important, but they then lack importance becausue of the number of matches you're allowed to lose to fiddle in new riders and still reach the top four. So they have watered down the importance of every match being important, as they were in the old league system. It allows half most of the teams in a seven club league to have a shout. It is fake, but in an era where you've got to be a winner, if it helps keeps speedway going, then that's important. But it won't win me back.

Ask a Belle Vue fan if the play offs  have 'watered down' the importance of meetings because, in fact, its quite the opposite. 

In the first past the post system they almost certainly wouldn't have a prayer and the meetings at Leicester, Somerset and Swindon (for the Aces) wouldn't have mattered one jot. Instead, there was massive disappointment on  Monday replaced by something approaching euphoria by Thursday night. Truth is, with only a few weeks to go only Leicester are out of it.

[moxey63]

17 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said:

Ask a Belle Vue fan if the play offs  have 'watered down' the importance of meetings because, in fact, its quite the opposite. 

In the first past the post system they almost certainly wouldn't have a prayer and the meetings at Leicester, Somerset and Swindon (for the Aces) wouldn't have mattered one jot. Instead, there was massive disappointment on  Monday replaced by something approaching euphoria by Thursday night. Truth is, with only a few weeks to go only Leicester are out of it.

Just a falseness about it. There shouldn't be 80-odd per cent of clubs still involved with weeks of the season to go. That's a school sports day ploy where even the losers get medals. In any sport there has to be a taste of failure. Otherwise, you can't enjoy winning.

[The Third Man]

If you think there isn't a taste of failure just ask the Ipswich fans after the play off final last year.

have way through the second leg they were on course to possibly win it then everything changed and Sheffield won the meeting

I am certain they were disappointed, I know I would have been if we had lost

 

 

Edited August 18, 2018 by The Third Man

[Pinny]

1 hour ago, Halifaxtiger said:

I don't agree about the racing at least. As I said earlier, Somerset on Wednesday was brilliant. Isle of Wight on Thursday was good, and while Plymouth last night was merely OK heat 13 was just stunning - one of the best races I have seen this season anywhere. 

Certain - and I'd accept many - clubs drag down the reputation of the sport by not putting sufficient effort in to make sure that the paying fan has a good night. As Bob C said to me so accurately last night, all you get is lets have your money, here's 15 heats. That's not good enough.

But when did you see an adverse post about Isle of Wight ? They haven't got a magic wand, so every club could gain the same reputation if they tried hard enough and the worst bit is that the Warriors standing has not been created by spending vast amounts of money or taking huge amounts of time. In fact, its pretty simple : they care.

I think you are right here and would question how many of those who criticise the play off system have actually been to one of the meetings. As I have said before, Mildenhall-Scunthorpe NL final a few years ago was easily one of the best matches I have seen. The Belle Vue - Wolverhampton meeting had everything that speedway should have - fantastic racing, a huge crowd, electric atmosphere. It doesn't get any better than that, and speedway just isn't in a position to ignore the almost sell out gates the finals attract.

I don't think there is any difference today, save for the attendance levels. We have always (50 years anyway) had guests, points limits, tactical changes and everything else people complain about. The racing is just as good (or bad) as it ever was. 

I also think that it has always been substantially about winning, and that doesn't just apply to speedway but any sport. Watching your team get humped every week means that attending can - for some - become a chore. Ask a Sheffield supporter right now.

I read an article recently (it has been reprinted in a number of speedway programmes) that said that Rugby League was facing a serious financial crisis and that only a handful of clubs are financially viable. Speedway isn't alone.

 

I'd question whether play offs have indeed led to decreased interest. After all, every match is still important - the current position in the Premiership being an obvious example. That's surely better financially than one team winning the league in mid August and others having 5 or 10 absolutely meaning less fixtures to complete.

Absolutely agree on the 'rule bending, greedy and selfish attitudes'. Until some put the interests of the sport as a whole before their own (and at the expense of others) speedway will continue to be on its knees.

Wish youd stop banging on about the IOW - their crowds are still low which hits the nail on the head that the sport is on its arse .

A whole lot more needs doing than what the IOW are doing . 

[moxey63]

Maybe we should have the season based on Knock-Out Cup matches. That way, everytime a club and more importantly its fans taste defeat, the season is over anyway. 

[Midland Red]

2 hours ago, Halifaxtiger said:

Ask a Belle Vue fan if the play offs  have 'watered down' the importance of meetings because, in fact, its quite the opposite. 

In the first past the post system they almost certainly wouldn't have a prayer and the meetings at Leicester, Somerset and Swindon (for the Aces) wouldn't have mattered one jot. Instead, there was massive disappointment on  Monday replaced by something approaching euphoria by Thursday night. Truth is, with only a few weeks to go only Leicester are out of it.

There's the difference - it used to be that they were speedway meetings, an evening's entertainment, never was there a meeting that "didn't matter"   

[chunky]

29 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

Maybe we should have the season based on Knock-Out Cup matches. That way, everytime a club and more importantly its fans taste defeat, the season is over anyway. 

Absolutely. Every match means something.

Sad that we have ended up like this....

Steve

[mikebv]

10 hours ago, steve roberts said:

I don't think anybody really doubts that the Play-Offs apparently attract good numbers but those numbers need to be replicated during the season if speedway is to move on.

They attract reasonable numbers but I would suggest 'net' over a season they just about break even...

As teams cram in fixtures, particularly if your team is guaranteed a PO place, you tend to find 300 - 500 give a few meetings a miss due to nothing riding on them, and the cost of lots of meetings within two or three weeks of each other...

Then you ride a PO in front of an extra 1000 and think the Play Offs are "a winner"...

The added irony is that when teams eventually get a big crowd, that delivers a great atmosphere with something riding on it, they then invariably have no meeting for the next six months until the new season starts..!

Speedway's Operating and Business Model....

Edited August 18, 2018 by mikebv

[orion]

5 hours ago, moxey63 said:

5 hours ago, moxey63 said:

Just a falseness about it. There shouldn't be 80-odd per cent of clubs still involved with weeks of the season to go. That's a school sports day ploy where even the losers get medals. In any sport there has to be a taste of failure. Otherwise, you can't enjoy winning.

 

Correct the last thing we need is  teams still in with a chance of winning  something so it keeps the fans coming in ..let them have no chance and end the  season in  june so they  can go bust ...I think your post some up's the standard old fan who has zero understanding of the money side .we have already had one say lets take off 50% off teams gate money as a way forward ..not sure it can get worst than that 

[moxey63]

1 hour ago, orion said:

Correct the last thing we need is  teams still in with a chance of winning  something so it keeps the fans coming in ..let them have no chance and end the  season in  june so they  can go bust ...I think your post some up's the standard old fan who has zero understanding of the money side .we have already had one say lets take off 50% off teams gate money as a way forward ..not sure it can get worst than that 

Seeing as you are really aware of the money side of things, why now in the years of Play-Off speedway is the sport in the most worrying state it's ever been? There is something keeping the fans away. One forum poster mentioned taking 50% off entrance money, which is not going to happen, but speedway must have suffered a similar reduction in crowd numbers the last 25 years, all in the time PO speedway has mostly been in force. We have had live speedway since 1999, POs since 2002, and yet look at the state of the sport. I am still uncertain that PO speedway is better for a speedway season. It keeps up interest, but at the same time it's sort of begging to the few fans that are still left that their collective attention spans won't be questioned. You keep having a dig at old fans. So, come on Mr Marketing Man, where are the Play-Offs winning the new fans? As the old fans become disillusioned and no longer attend and drift away with each month, there's enough space on the terraces for everyone. If you like the X-Factor type of gimmick shows, the Play-Offs are your bag. Just not for me. And, by the way, Rye House went bust only weeks ago.. and there's more to come.

Edited August 18, 2018 by moxey63

[theblueboy]

7 hours ago, moxey63 said:

I am certainly not saying speedway racing was better in the seventies. At the time, it was certainly more interesting and grabbed the attention more than what's on offer today. Was it the bikes were harder to race, the tracks more grippy and rutty, therefore there was a sense of riders making mistakes and other capitalising on them. I certainly recall riders coming back after a heat and being unable to speak, it was that hard out there.  Now, it seems so easy compared to back then. A few videos on Youtube don't tell the whole story. There were lots of characters and, unlike modern day, few hoping to make a name for themselves from with all the glam stuff a heatleader back in the day would have had to dance for.  I used to go to watch Belle Vue v Halifax in the early eighties for one reason - Kenny Carter. The Dukes were dross all the time, but seeing your top men against him and what could happen was worth entrance money. You'd certainly not wish to miss it.

As a young boy, it was the noise of the crowd and the smell of the methanol that grabbed my attention in that era. I can’t comment on the speedway per se because I was too young, although, I do remember the names and used to love reading the Star and The Mail. I do remember one match v The Dukes, which had Geoff Pusey and Henny Kroeze in their 7 and were routed 60-18! 

I have evidenced YouTube to remind me of a bygone era and to see for myself if really it was better times. Support wise it most certainly is, however, I have watched several meetings on this platform including several World Finals and Test Matches. There were many big names of the day but the meetings were broadly similar to today. Incidentally, the track at Swindon hasn’t got any better if the England’s USA match from the mid 80’s is anything to go by.

My comment was not aimed at you but it’s an ideal shared by many supporters from that era that it was better speedway but I think that’s just the memories of those individuals, which is why I believe that meetings are not much different today to those from the 70’s, albeit on much faster bikes. 

To me, the speedway is no better or no worse than it was 40 years ago, so to me it’s not the product itself, however, it’s all the ancillary issues that speedway has failed to understand and adddress.

[orion]

51 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

Seeing as you are really aware of the money side of things, why now in the years of Play-Off speedway is the sport in the most worrying state it's ever been? There is something keeping the fans away. One forum poster mentioned taking 50% off entrance money, which is not going to happen, but speedway must have suffered a similar reduction in crowd numbers the last 25 years, all in the time PO speedway has mostly been in force. We have had live speedway since 1999, POs since 2002, and yet look at the state of the sport. I am still uncertain that PO speedway is better for a speedway season. It keeps up interest, but at the same time it's sort of begging to the few fans that are still left that their collective attention spans won't be questioned. You keep having a dig at old fans. So, come on Mr Marketing Man, where are the Play-Offs winning the new fans? As the old fans become disillusioned and no longer attend and drift away with each month, there's enough space on the terraces for everyone. If you like the X-Factor type of gimmick shows, the Play-Offs are your bag. Just not for me. And, by the way, Rye House went bust only weeks ago.. and there's more to come.

Yet again the stupid idea of blaming play offs just because crowds have dropped ...they work in every other sport but somehow uk  speedway is the only sport in the world that it stops fans going . if play offs stopped people going it's stands to reason that in every sport that they are used , the the  crowds would be going down as well ..the fact that they don't should give you  a clue on how the public view the  play offs as a whole  as well as  the reason why nearly every sports have  them in one way or another ..no doubt they are wrong and the oap speedway  fan is right ?

No one ever said that play offs will improved crowds and  I doubt if  anything will, but it's pretty clear if we don't have  them the crowds would have  dropped more quicker with hardly anything to race for nearly all the clubs once june comes ..if was a marketking man I doubt  I would love the task of trying to market matches that meant nothing to anyone ,if we  went back to a 8 club league with only one winner ….''Roll up ,Roll up it's 4th v 5th for the vital 4th place that means nothing '',

 

Edited August 18, 2018 by orion

[moxey63]

2 hours ago, orion said:

Yet again the stupid idea of blaming play offs just because crowds have dropped ...they work in every other sport but somehow uk  speedway is the only sport in the world that it stops fans going . if play offs stopped people going it's stands to reason that in every sport that they are used , the the  crowds would be going down as well ..the fact that they don't should give you  a clue on how the public view the  play offs as a whole  as well as  the reason why nearly every sports have  them in one way or another ..no doubt they are wrong and the oap speedway  fan is right ?

No one ever said that play offs will improved crowds and  I doubt if  anything will, but it's pretty clear if we don't have  them the crowds would have  dropped more quicker with hardly anything to race for nearly all the clubs once june comes ..if was a marketking man I doubt  I would love the task of trying to market matches that meant nothing to anyone ,if we  went back to a 8 club league with only one winner ….''Roll up ,Roll up it's 4th v 5th for the vital 4th place that means nothing '',

 

Speedway isn't typical of normal sports. The group matches serve the purpose of practice for majority of teams to fine tune their sides and drop off form riders and bring in stronger ones. Poole did this. It makes a mockery of a sport set up to build a bond between riders and fans when a side can look totally different within weeks of the new season. It is short term thinking. Do other sports see teams gradually kick out the weaker members so they can bring in stronger players before the big occasion of the Play off? The team ethnicity has vanished. That was what attracted fans to watch. Riders appear for so many teams now that it's hard to keep up. It's not about building sides for the future anymore. Six months of the league season is speedway's future. Then we all start again. As you keep harping on about 4th V 5th, what do you think is the impact on teams who have no chance of making the POs in 7th and 8th? Will there fans stop attending and they'll close because they are meaningless matches? Or will the follow my oap way of thinking and just enjoy the sport the way we used to, when it was more about hope than it was winning?

[orion]

10 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

Speedway isn't typical of normal sports. The group matches serve the purpose of practice for majority of teams to fine tune their sides and drop off form riders and bring in stronger ones. Poole did this. It makes a mockery of a sport set up to build a bond between riders and fans when a side can look totally different within weeks of the new season. It is short term thinking. Do other sports see teams gradually kick out the weaker members so they can bring in stronger players before the big occasion of the Play off? The team ethnicity has vanished. That was what attracted fans to watch. Riders appear for so many teams now that it's hard to keep up. It's not about building sides for the future anymore. Six months of the league season is speedway's future. Then we all start again. As you keep harping on about 4th V 5th, what do you think is the impact on teams who have no chance of making the POs in 7th and 8th? Will there fans stop attending and they'll close because they are meaningless matches? Or will the follow my oap way of thinking and just enjoy the sport the way we used to, when it was more about hope than it was winning?

The answer to your last  question is yea any match that means little will not have as many fans .. that is just common sense ..no doubt in the great era of speedway no one ever dropped aves to make there team stronger did they ? it happened all the time so teams could win the league next year or a cup in the same year is always been the same in speedway but no doubt you felt that  was ok . Riders used to take money to drop points for god sake .the sports has always been bent .

Not sure but did not have the league cup first in the old days ? I might be wrong but could not just drop  ave to bring better riders  in then   so you could go on and win the league ? ...I guess with that in mind you stopped going ?  Yet again no ever said the play offs are fair or the best way of finding  the best team t but hey are a vital point in making teams more money something you cant understand . ive been to Swindon this year and they have made one team  change this  and that was down to a rider getting injured .the other night they rode Belle Vue who I think had the same top 5 they stated the season with . In fact Swindon and Belle vue  sides have most of the same side from last year and wolves have  had 3 or 4 as well . so all this every team changes  a couple of weeks into the season   and there is no bond between rider and fans   is over stated . I expect Swindon Belle vue and wolves made more changes 30 years ago 

You go on about Poole this year but  they likely to finish top so ever under the old rules they would have dropped riders and still  won the league .