The continuing decline of Speedway

[steve roberts]

41 minutes ago, Pinny said:

Its not that their music isnt any good, I’m not really a fan but you dont want to be listening to outdated stuff like that at a speedway meeting. 

There is so much work to be done to even attempt to get it off its arse. Every single club would need to upgrade facilities, tracks, the bspa would need to completely re write the rulebook. 

One of the main things that would need stopping is doubling up. Forget how many riders are available... all clubs go to the AGM knowing doubling up/down is a thing of the past. Then you can figure out how many teams in each league. 

Guests can still be used from either league on half/double their respective league average. 

Riders must sign a contract stating they will be at events like ELRC/PLRC . If their not there , they get fined £5000. 

Fixed race nights clearly dont work in this country so get rid of that and go back to clubs preferred race nights. It was brought in to stop double uppers being missing but there is still riders missing all the time. Get rid of doubling up, you wont have clashes. 

People will disagree obviously but something needs doing. 

No having GP superstars dictating what goes on. If they dont like it, they can sod off back to Poland and Sweden.

take the sports back to basics and invent a decent product for potential newcomers... they wont care if riders like Richard Lawson are number ones instead of Jason Doyle. I got hooked on the sport when it was a better product than it is now 20 years ago. Craig Watson was my home towns number one not Tony Rickardsson. Didnt stop me getting hooked on it straight away. 

I still think the sports fcuked in UK but something has to be tried rather than all these stupid pathetic things they try each year.

also, what on earth is someone like Rob Godfrey doing anywhere near the top of the chairman standings. He only gets a few hundred through the gate every week, get someone in as chairman who is young, full of positive ideas , proven track record of good promoting. 

...when I used to go to speedway the music played was more often than not contemporary chart music and something that I personally couldn't equate with. However whatever music was being played was often lost on me as we were too busy discussing the last/next race pre-empting the next move by the Team Manager (when they had an input!)

Agree with much of what you say however.

Edited August 15, 2018 by steve roberts

[Pieman72]

Having made several constructive comments I'm trying hard to understand what's going wrong with British speedway; I wonder what it is? 

[waytogo28]

1 hour ago, Pieman72 said:

Having made several constructive comments I'm trying hard to understand what's going wrong with British speedway; I wonder what it is? 

I too have made any number of constructive comments. I have come to the conclusion that the sport is controlled ( not run ) by a group of incompetent amateurs at sports administration even if they have previously excelled in a business of some kind. They do not treat the sport in a businesslike manner but as their plaything. They are far removed from the customers they have and are incapable of attracting others. If speedway in the UK was an animal it would be put down.

[moxey63]

For starters, let's look at the actual staging of an average match. Majority I see on BT always run-over time. Can we not have a strategy in which there's no longer than five minutes between the heats. New fans and old alike don't like the wait between the heats. I used to see numbers of fans having to leave the stadium early after a drawn-out meeting and because they had to catch the bus. Not all have vehicles. Over two hours to do 15 heats is not good. That's one idea. I know accidents etc hold things up. But by aiming to get things done and out of the way within 90 minutes or so would be a start to make an evening seem more organised.

[Spl77]

When I first went to Ipswich they had a 16 heat national league match a second half of junior league racing plus the likes of Ben Howe who was 14 or 15 at the time practicing afterwards along with the juniors hoping to get into the junior team. Sometimes 22 or more heats plus practice and All before the curfew of 10pm. Now from what I understand sometimes they struggle to get 15 heats in before 10pm. Certainly when I stopped attending on a regular basis we only got served up 15 heats. Far better value for money back in 89/90 plus no doubling up guests. Seemed far more professional to even though most of the riders had jobs to support themselves. 

[Thornaby48]

4 hours ago, moxey63 said:

For starters, let's look at the actual staging of an average match. Majority I see on BT always run-over time. Can we not have a strategy in which there's no longer than five minutes between the heats. New fans and old alike don't like the wait between the heats. I used to see numbers of fans having to leave the stadium early after a drawn-out meeting and because they had to catch the bus. Not all have vehicles. Over two hours to do 15 heats is not good. That's one idea. I know accidents etc hold things up. But by aiming to get things done and out of the way within 90 minutes or so would be a start to make an evening seem more organised.

 

 I agree totally with what you say. According to the Speed way Regulation 2018  rule 15.2.1 and I quote "The time from finish of a heat to the start of the next not  exceeds 4 minutes( including the 2 minute time allowance)".

Allowing 60 seconds for the race then a meeting should last about 75 minutes (assuming no hold ups). I do not understand why we need an interval after 10 heats to my mind its an unnecessary delay and should be after heat15  and before the after match racing. After all if a match is exciting a 15 minute break could break its momentum and if the match is a bore it only prolongs the agony.

Here ,up in the frozen north east it can get chilly late on and any unnecessary delays are  not always welcome.

[marko]

One factor which has meant meetings taking longer is the fact that the bikes are not allowed on the track whilst plant equipment is still on it and vice versa, and at Lakeside we have to wait even longer because the track man insists on driving both the grader and the water truck so we have to wait for him to do a few laps on one tractor, then get on another tractor and do a few laps on that.

Big gaps between heats kills the flow of a meeting and atmosphere when there is one.

[Shale Searcher]

When I started as a marshal/raker/helmet colour retriever/ropeman/bike retriever at old Leicester, the track was tractored and raked back after every race, Inc the 2nd half races.. The meetings were still completed before 10pm, and then the raw novices were let on...... Don't get why meetings take so long now, with no true second half, and grading only 4, maybe 5 times per night....... Go figure? 

Edited August 15, 2018 by Shale Searcher

[steve roberts]

17 hours ago, Spl77 said:

When I first went to Ipswich they had a 16 heat national league match a second half of junior league racing plus the likes of Ben Howe who was 14 or 15 at the time practicing afterwards along with the juniors hoping to get into the junior team. Sometimes 22 or more heats plus practice and All before the curfew of 10pm. Now from what I understand sometimes they struggle to get 15 heats in before 10pm. Certainly when I stopped attending on a regular basis we only got served up 15 heats. Far better value for money back in 89/90 plus no doubling up guests. Seemed far more professional to even though most of the riders had jobs to support themselves. 

I've said it many times before. I just wouldn't consider traveling to a meeting (York my home town to Sheffield for example) that consisted of only 15 heats. Can't see how that's value for money. Unlike some on the forum I used to enjoy the old second half/junior match etc as it gave a chance to relax after the main event chewing the fat with mates.

[waytogo28]

9 hours ago, marko said:

Big gaps between heats kills the flow of a meeting and atmosphere when there is one.

You are 100% right but sadly no-one who organises meetings will ever listen or make a serious effort to improve things. They haven't for 25 years so why would they start now? "Gardening" for example, when that rule came in it was implemented for the first two or three meetings and then given up on. The Polish system seems much better, or an even stricter one! Concrete starting strip the best way forward. 

[steve roberts]

12 minutes ago, waytogo28 said:

You are 100% right but sadly no-one who organises meetings will ever listen or make a serious effort to improve things. They haven't for 25 years so why would they start now? "Gardening" for example, when that rule came in it was implemented for the first two or three meetings and then given up on. The Polish system seems much better, or an even stricter one! Concrete starting strip the best way forward. 

I recall that speedway adopted such a measure many years ago and would be interested to learn why it was dropped? I can only assume that a rider when passing over the concrete section picked up extra grip causing the bike to rear (?) or too much grip whilst waiting for the tapes to rise in that it didn't allow the rear wheel to spin?

When I had a go at speedway at King's Lynn it amazed me the depth of grooves at the starting area and passing over them was like hitting a 'rumble strip' causing the front wheel and forks to vibrate!

Edited August 16, 2018 by steve roberts

[longlivefrankie]

Re music at meetings, not sure age of music has a lot to do with it, IMO it's actual use is more important,  I ogo often to T20 blast matches (cricket) and Neil diamond - Caroline  Jeff beck - hi ho silver lining Beatles - hey Jude are trotted out to great effect. The size of the crowd is a factor I was at the oval recently following Glamorgan and the atmosphere was electric the music certainly helped get the crowd going. On the opposite side I have been when places less than half full thecmusic doesn't work. Usually the MC/DJ tones down the music to a lot less. 

What i do come away usually with the sense of being entertained 

Edited August 16, 2018 by longlivefrankie

[salty]

9 minutes ago, longlivefrankie said:

Re music at meetings, not sure age of music has a lot to do with it, IMO it's actual use is more important,  I ogo often to T20 blast matches (cricket) and Neil diamond - Caroline  Jeff beck - hi ho silver lining Beatles - hey Jude are trotted out to great effect. The size of the crowd is a factor I was at the oval recently following Glamorgan and the atmosphere was electric the music certainly helped get the crowd going. On the opposite side I have been when places less than half full thecmusic doesn't work. Usually the MC/DJ tones down the music to a lot less. 

What i do come away usually with the sense of being entertained 

I'd have to agree. My kids jump at the chance of a night at the Ice Hockey. They have no real interest in the sport, but enjoy the "event". My local team, Belfast Giants, get good crowds and the atmosphere, facilities and presentation are enough to encourage them to attend. The last time I took a couple of them to a domestic Speedway meeting (an awful drawn out affair - damp,cpld and boring) they wanted to leave before the end.

[mikebv]

19 minutes ago, longlivefrankie said:

Re music at meetings, not sure age of music has a lot to do with it, IMO it's actual use is more important,  I ogo often to T20 blast matches (cricket) and Neil diamond - Caroline  Jeff beck - hi ho silver lining Beatles - hey Jude are trotted out to great effect. The size of the crowd is a factor I was at the oval recently following Glamorgan and the atmosphere was electric the music certainly helped get the crowd going. On the opposite side I have been when places less than half full thecmusic doesn't work. Usually the MC/DJ tones down the music to a lot less. 

What i do come away usually with the sense of being entertained 

As many on here say ad infinitum...

Great racing in front of a three quarters empty stadium with no 'audience' participation or enthusiasm can be an easily forgettable experience...

Average racing in front of a full house of engaged people, infused with the enthusiam that an emotional attachment to 'their team', and 'their riders', brings, can live a long time in the memory..

And at circa £20 for domestic Speedway, (especially the way it is ran), you will always have the former example at the vast majority of tracks I would suggest...

To keep and improve your fanbase, fans should leave every Speedway meeting already looking forward to the next one...

I bet not that many currently do that....

 

Edited August 16, 2018 by mikebv

[Humphrey Appleby]

36 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

I recall that speedway adopted such a measure many years ago and would be interested to learn why it was dropped? I can only assume that a rider when passing over the concrete section picked up extra grip causing the bike to rear (?) or too much grip whilst waiting for the tapes to rise in that it didn't allow the rear wheel to spin?

I'd have thought the combined danger of bikes potentially hitting a concrete lip at 70 mph as the shale shifted, or falling onto a rock hard surface on the fastest part of the circuit, would have had substantial safety issues. 

[steve roberts]

43 minutes ago, salty said:

I'd have to agree. My kids jump at the chance of a night at the Ice Hockey. They have no real interest in the sport, but enjoy the "event". My local team, Belfast Giants, get good crowds and the atmosphere, facilities and presentation are enough to encourage them to attend. The last time I took a couple of them to a domestic Speedway meeting (an awful drawn out affair - damp,cpld and boring) they wanted to leave before the end.

I used to follow Oxford City 'Stars' Ice Hockey team and I have to agree that it used to create a great atmosphere (especially The Town vs. Gown matches) however it's much easier creating an atmosphere within an enclosed inside arena rather than an open stadium whereby the weather will always be a factor as well as other issues.

[steve roberts]

56 minutes ago, mikebv said:

As many on here say ad infinitum...

Great racing in front of a three quarters empty stadium with no 'audience' participation or enthusiasm can be an easily forgettable experience...

Average racing in front of a full house of engaged people, infused with the enthusiam that an emotional attachment to 'their team', and 'their riders', brings, can live a long time in the memory..

And at circa £20 for domestic Speedway, (especially the way it is ran), you will always have the former example at the vast majority of tracks I would suggest...

To keep and improve your fanbase, fans should leave every Speedway meeting already looking forward to the next one...

I bet not that many currently do that....

 

...of course in my youth we used to do 'War Cries' use rattles and later air horns to generate an atmosphere and before people suggest that today's youth would find all that 'un-cool' it doesn't stop them from participating in banal chants at football matches and the like.

[moxey63]

11 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

...of course in my youth we used to do 'War Cries' use rattles and later air horns to generate an atmosphere and before people suggest that today's youth would find all that 'un-cool' it doesn't stop them from participating in banal chants at football matches and the like.

If they attempted a war cry nowadays the echo of an empty stadium would come back and smack them in the face.

[Halifaxtiger]

17 hours ago, Thornaby48 said:

 

 I agree totally with what you say. According to the Speed way Regulation 2018  rule 15.2.1 and I quote "The time from finish of a heat to the start of the next not  exceeds 4 minutes( including the 2 minute time allowance)".

Allowing 60 seconds for the race then a meeting should last about 75 minutes (assuming no hold ups). I do not understand why we need an interval after 10 heats to my mind its an unnecessary delay and should be after heat15  and before the after match racing. After all if a match is exciting a 15 minute break could break its momentum and if the match is a bore it only prolongs the agony.

Here ,up in the frozen north east it can get chilly late on and any unnecessary delays are  not always welcome.

Frozen certain important parts of my anatomy at Isle of Wight on occasion so its not just in the north that it gets cold. 

Truth is, unnecessary delays are not welcome at any time. Never met a fan that likes intervals and have met many that do not. Apparently, the riders just want to get on with it as well.

The only time they can be justified is when other attractions take place. Isle of Wight, for example, have a nippers running race that is part of the show for them. 

I think clubs are learning about it. Somerset didn't have an interval last night and Workington seemed to have dumped them, too.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2018 by Halifaxtiger

[montie]

3 hours ago, longlivefrankie said:

Re music at meetings, not sure age of music has a lot to do with it, IMO it's actual use is more important,  I ogo often to T20 blast matches (cricket) and Neil diamond - Caroline  Jeff beck - hi ho silver lining Beatles - hey Jude are trotted out to great effect. The size of the crowd is a factor I was at the oval recently following Glamorgan and the atmosphere was electric the music certainly helped get the crowd going. On the opposite side I have been when places less than half full thecmusic doesn't work. Usually the MC/DJ tones down the music to a lot less. 

What i do come away usually with the sense of being entertained 

the T20 cricket is an interesting thing,the way that has turned cricket around in amazing,and it really is a good night out

think it help also that at the business end of the match most of the crowd are pissed up tho!

 

Edited August 16, 2018 by montie