The continuing decline of Speedway

[Daytripper]

5 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

...never like fixed gates. Took away a certain amount of tactical ploy. It was also a bit of a myth that top riders always took the best gate because when one reads accounts and/or interviews it wasn't always the case as many would have us believe.

I like fixed gates. It means everybody gets a chance off the best gates and therefore the second strings or reserves get a better chance of out gating the best riders at least once per match. It also means that gating tarts have to go off the worst gates once or twice per match. 

 

[Humphrey Appleby]

1 hour ago, GWC said:

Why were fixed gate positions brought in?

Supposedly to stop the top riders dominating, but possibly another cost cutting measures as fixed gates tended to reduce the scoring opportunities for the top riders who'd presumably on higher points money.

[steve roberts]

2 hours ago, Daytripper said:

I like fixed gates. It means everybody gets a chance off the best gates and therefore the second strings or reserves get a better chance of out gating the best riders at least once per match. It also means that gating tarts have to go off the worst gates once or twice per match. 

 

Trouble was/is with 'fixed gates' is that they allowed an advantage to whatever team when gates didn't alternate (successive inside or outside gates) and as dirt moved outwards it proved advantageous or disadvantageous or those with successive early inside gates before the dirt moved out...whatever the scenario. 

I seem to recall that a team were programmed to ride three inside gates out of four and which obviously worked the other way.

Edited August 13, 2018 by steve roberts

[geoff100]

6 hours ago, Grachan said:

I don't think the Sunday People had any bearing at all on the problems of speedway today. If any fans were lost because of it, that would have been in 1984, and crowds then were very healthy compared to now. The idea of Bruce Penhall winning the 1981 World Final because Jiri Stancl let him beat him was, as you say, pretty laughable anyway, and any speedway fan would have known that.

The sport was still doing fine after that.

I have the 1981 final on video and stancl does let penhall get away in the last heat but he had already  done enough before that to be a deserved winner .

[Grachan]

11 minutes ago, geoff100 said:

I have the 1981 final on video and stancl does let penhall get away in the last heat but he had already  done enough before that to be a deserved winner .

I think it's more a case of Penhall going slow to make it an interesting race, knowing full well that Stancl won't pass him. Lanning's commentary is interesting in that race, though, talking of Penhall "playing to the gallery".

[Bryce]

The way Bruce rode that night he was going to be world champion come what may. The last bend swoops to take Olsen and Knudsen on the line are the stuff of speedway legend. Had he been required to beat Carter in the last heat I feel certain he would have done. Stancl was never going to be a threat.

[Grand Central]

6 hours ago, Grachan said:

I don't think the Sunday People had any bearing at all on the problems of speedway today. If any fans were lost because of it, that would have been in 1984, and crowds then were very healthy compared to now. The idea of Bruce Penhall winning the 1981 World Final because Jiri Stancl let him beat him was, as you say, pretty laughable anyway, and any speedway fan would have known that.

The sport was still doing fine after that.

I think that the People article did have an impact on the National media and it's attitude to the Sport. It played right into the hands of all those around Fleet Street who always believed us to be a Mickey Mouse Sport. And pretty much drowned out the voices of those who had battled long and hard on our behalf. It was a right kick in the teeth to them from those riders involved. 

That added to the 'Danish takeover' at the time diminished the profile we DID have in the media until that time to the negligible levels we know now.

And in the end that would have had impact at the gates and sponsorship.

[Stoke Potter]

58 minutes ago, Grand Central said:

I think that the People article did have an impact on the National media and it's attitude to the Sport. It played right into the hands of all those around Fleet Street who always believed us to be a Mickey Mouse Sport. And pretty much drowned out the voices of those who had battled long and hard on our behalf. It was a right kick in the teeth to them from those riders involved. 

That added to the 'Danish takeover' at the time diminished the profile we DID have in the media until that time to the negligible levels we know now.

And in the end that would have had impact at the gates and sponsorship.

Perfectly correct.  To just dismiss the scandal and say it had no impact goes a long way to summing up why the sport is in the state it is.  As does Mauger's attitude to the newspaper, if that is indeed what happened.
The national newspapers sponsored many events in the 70's - early 80's.  Did that stop after the Sunday People investigation? 

I don't recall many different sponsors beyond the mid 80's apart from Sunbrite and variations thereof.

[OveFundinFan]

I was sat in my local café this lunchtime reading one of the daily national morning papers and I usually start at the back page and move forward. Surprised to see a good half page about Moto GP from Austria the day before (Sunday), but then there was a much smaller report re Saturdays speedway GP in Malilla, sadly it started about the TW NP spat. Results were given, also a bit about British Superbikes from Thruxton and British Touring Car championship from Rockingham. The a list of speedway fixtures for tonights speedway.  Its a long time since I seen so much about motor sport in general (apart from F1 at Silverstone) and was genuinely surprised.  Speedway was still "a little bit", but hey - its a start. 

[steve roberts]

50 minutes ago, Stoke Potter said:

Perfectly correct.  To just dismiss the scandal and say it had no impact goes a long way to summing up why the sport is in the state it is.  As does Mauger's attitude to the newspaper, if that is indeed what happened.
The national newspapers sponsored many events in the 70's - early 80's.  Did that stop after the Sunday People investigation? 

I don't recall many different sponsors beyond the mid 80's apart from Sunbrite and variations thereof.

Briggo mentioned it in an interview he gave in 'Backtrack' some years ago.

[Stoke Potter]

15 minutes ago, Richard Weston said:

Some of this recent stuff on this thread highlights what's wrong. We are discussing things from a generation ago. Has no relevance to what happens today.

What the Sunday People did has no impact on today's audience

It was trying to pin-point a time when the decline started I think.  The biggest fall in national crowds was likely to be between 1980 - 1990 I feel.

[Grand Central]

Actually what's really wrong is patrolling forums just to 'police' other people's legitimate points of discussion. 

 

Edited August 13, 2018 by Grand Central

[steve roberts]

12 minutes ago, Stoke Potter said:

It was trying to pin-point a time when the decline started I think.  The biggest fall in national crowds was likely to be between 1980 - 1990 I feel.

I was fortunate at Oxford that during the middle late eighties we had a team that was chasing honours and that was reflected in good crowds at Cowley. However the winter of 1984/85 whereby Newcastle, Wimbledon, Eastbourne, Poole and Exeter dropped out of the British League decimated numbers operating although when travelling away with 'The Cheetahs' I didn't notice that crowds were necessarily down overall. However from the late eighties early nineties it started to become noticeable in my experience. Attendances fluctuated at Cowley during that period with highs and lows.

Whenever Oxford operated in the lower league attendances were never very good whether it was during the seventies, eighties or nineties.

[Stoke Potter]

25 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

I was fortunate at Oxford that during the middle late eighties we had a team that was chasing honours and that was reflected in good crowds at Cowley. However the winter of 1984/85 whereby Newcastle, Wimbledon, Eastbourne, Poole and Exeter dropped out of the British League decimated numbers operating although when travelling away with 'The Cheetahs' I didn't notice that crowds were necessarily down overall. However from the late eighties early nineties it started to become noticeable in my experience. Attendances fluctuated at Cowley during that period with highs and lows.

Whenever Oxford operated in the lower league attendances were never very good whether it was during the seventies, eighties or nineties.

Coincidence that all those teams dropped out of the big league the same year as the People investigation?  
To be fair the decline may have been more marked between 85-95.

[Pinny]

On 8/8/2018 at 11:19 PM, montie said:

 i hate to say it but......despite what a good product it is ,is it enough,   it really is a tough one

 

 

 

 

Its doomed. I cannot see how there can ever be a way back now.

9/10 tracks dont even get 1000 through the gates anymore. 

Think speedway is just not in with the times anymore, the fans who did attend have just got fed up with the constant watering down of the product, riders missing every week, rubbish race surfaces half the time, irregular home meetings, same teams visiting on the bounce, ancient presentation and music, pretty poor spectating facilities .... why would any new fans want to turn up every week taking that lot into account ?

I remember as a 9 year old first going to Newport, there was a meeting every week. And that was just Premier League level. The Mavericks were on every other Saturday in the Conference league. 

Youd rarely see a rider missing, and if they were it was for a genuine reason. None of this injured for one team and then suddenly fit again the next night for their other team. 

The sport is absolutely on its arse in the UK, and its hard to see any way out at all.

can you imagine attending your first meeting. One team has r/r , a national league guest at number one and a guest. The other also has r/r and guests . Your stood around on a cold winter night watching tractors going around listening to Wham or Duran Duran. Why the hell would you ever want to go back?

[rjsj9803]

Having watched a Swedish league match on the box earlier the crowd seemed similar to UK meetings but the team strengths miles apart here we have Hans Andersen and Steve Masters as heat leaders in Sweden both at 6 & 7. 

I have similar ideas to most here about how to improve it , but what is it that the Swedish league does to attract pretty much all the top guys considering the gate revenue appears similar? 

Jeez we can't even get a British world champion elect to ride here these days!!

[Pinny]

1 hour ago, rjsj9803 said:

Having watched a Swedish league match on the box earlier the crowd seemed similar to UK meetings but the team strengths miles apart here we have Hans Andersen and Steve Masters as heat leaders in Sweden both at 6 & 7. 

I have similar ideas to most here about how to improve it , but what is it that the Swedish league does to attract pretty much all the top guys considering the gate revenue appears similar? 

Jeez we can't even get a British world champion elect to ride here these days!!

Swedish crowds are far higher than UK crowds... not sure what their like when televised but seen the average crowds for each top flight club a few weeks ago and their a lot better than the UK crowds.

[Ghostwalker]

3 hours ago, rjsj9803 said:

Having watched a Swedish league match on the box earlier the crowd seemed similar to UK meetings but the team strengths miles apart here we have Hans Andersen and Steve Masters as heat leaders in Sweden both at 6 & 7. 

I have similar ideas to most here about how to improve it , but what is it that the Swedish league does to attract pretty much all the top guys considering the gate revenue appears similar? 

Jeez we can't even get a British world champion elect to ride here these days!!

 

1 hour ago, Pinny said:

Swedish crowds are far higher than UK crowds... not sure what their like when televised but seen the average crowds for each top flight club a few weeks ago
and their a lot better than the UK crowds.

Meetings are not televised, only available on streaming service. All clubs except one have over 2000 on average.
My team Smederna almost have 5000 on average. It was 4200 yesterday but the rain probably scared away 1000-15000 or so.
http://se.aktuellspeedway.eu/publik/elitserien/2018/
https://ta.svemo.se/Public/Pages/Serie/Audience/AudienceStatistics.aspx?SerieId=1142

[steve roberts]

7 hours ago, Pinny said:

Its doomed. I cannot see how there can ever be a way back now.

9/10 tracks dont even get 1000 through the gates anymore. 

Think speedway is just not in with the times anymore, the fans who did attend have just got fed up with the constant watering down of the product, riders missing every week, rubbish race surfaces half the time, irregular home meetings, same teams visiting on the bounce, ancient presentation and music, pretty poor spectating facilities .... why would any new fans want to turn up every week taking that lot into account ?

I remember as a 9 year old first going to Newport, there was a meeting every week. And that was just Premier League level. The Mavericks were on every other Saturday in the Conference league. 

Youd rarely see a rider missing, and if they were it was for a genuine reason. None of this injured for one team and then suddenly fit again the next night for their other team. 

The sport is absolutely on its arse in the UK, and its hard to see any way out at all.

can you imagine attending your first meeting. One team has r/r , a national league guest at number one and a guest. The other also has r/r and guests . Your stood around on a cold winter night watching tractors going around listening to Wham or Duran Duran. Why the hell would you ever want to go back?

...I would have thought having to listen to Wham and Duran Duran would pretty well put off anybody anywhere anyplace! Some good old 'Rock 'n' Roll' is what's needed!

I used to watch American Football on Channel 4 when it first transmitted (1983/84?) and used to enjoy the highlights programme. I decided to go to Wembley on a couple of occasions to watch the pre-season matches and I have to say all the off-field distractions used to irritate me (never mind the mexican wave that was all the rage back then) and it struck me that it was the event rather than the game that used to excite the fans. The constant stop/start of the game (to take in the adverts back home in 'The States') also proved a personal annoyance. I went back to watching highlighted matches...watching live either at the actual event or on TV was a massive undertaking and I eventually grew tired of the spectacle with all the hype involved and over analysis by the 'experts' pontificating over the game and moves.

Edited August 15, 2018 by steve roberts

[Pinny]

56 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

...I would have thought having to listen to Wham and Duran Duran would pretty well put off anybody anywhere anyplace! Some good old 'Rock 'n' Roll' is what's needed!

I used to watch American Football on Channel 4 when it first transmitted (1983/84?) and used to enjoy the highlights programme. I decided to go to Wembley on a couple of occasions to watch the pre-season matches and I have to say all the off-field distractions used to irritate me (never mind the mexican wave that was all the rage back then) and it struck me that it was the event rather than the game that used to excite the fans. The constant stop/start of the game (to take in the adverts back home in 'The States') also proved a personal annoyance. I went back to watching highlighted matches...watching live either at the actual event or on TV was a massive undertaking and I eventually grew tired of the spectacle with all the hype involved and over analysis by the 'experts' pontificating over the game and moves.

Its not that their music isnt any good, I’m not really a fan but you dont want to be listening to outdated stuff like that at a speedway meeting. 

There is so much work to be done to even attempt to get it off its arse. Every single club would need to upgrade facilities, tracks, the bspa would need to completely re write the rulebook. 

One of the main things that would need stopping is doubling up. Forget how many riders are available... all clubs go to the AGM knowing doubling up/down is a thing of the past. Then you can figure out how many teams in each league. 

Guests can still be used from either league on half/double their respective league average. 

Riders must sign a contract stating they will be at events like ELRC/PLRC . If their not there , they get fined £5000. 

Fixed race nights clearly dont work in this country so get rid of that and go back to clubs preferred race nights. It was brought in to stop double uppers being missing but there is still riders missing all the time. Get rid of doubling up, you wont have clashes. 

People will disagree obviously but something needs doing. 

No having GP superstars dictating what goes on. If they dont like it, they can sod off back to Poland and Sweden.

take the sports back to basics and invent a decent product for potential newcomers... they wont care if riders like Richard Lawson are number ones instead of Jason Doyle. I got hooked on the sport when it was a better product than it is now 20 years ago. Craig Watson was my home towns number one not Tony Rickardsson. Didnt stop me getting hooked on it straight away. 

I still think the sports fcuked in UK but something has to be tried rather than all these stupid pathetic things they try each year.

also, what on earth is someone like Rob Godfrey doing anywhere near the top of the chairman standings. He only gets a few hundred through the gate every week, get someone in as chairman who is young, full of positive ideas , proven track record of good promoting. 

Edited August 15, 2018 by Pinny