Hamish McRaker Posted August 4, 2018 Report Share Posted August 4, 2018 3 hours ago, moxey63 said: I think we're going a bit far here by wanting other forms of entertainment. It's speedway ffs and there should be no reason to attract people for any other reason than watching a properly run sport. Speedway is thrilling, but the thrill goes for the newcomers the longer they have to stand around waiting for the next race. waste of time trying to introduce newcomers if you're going to instantly lose them. No gimmicks like double points, no teams being near the bottom after a few months and then signing a few better riders and coming good just at the right end of the season (I didn't even mention Poole). It's like Popeye eating some spinach and growing big muscles. The qualifying matches for the Play-Offs allows this. As long as the team gets there, even if they just scrape it with a much better side than began the season, then they are quids in. Belle Vue lost some fans that they managed to win back a few years ago when Wolves brought in Woffinden to eventually come good in the PO Final after BV had made all the running. Ridiculous. Get the rules right, make it simple, fewer gaps between heats and fewer restarts because of a rider getting a quicker start. There is nothing worse on a cold night than gaps between heats. Nothing worse on a cold night than gaps and having to watch someone trying to entertain you with another form of a show while there's a speedway match going on. Again, the latest BT Sport matches have overrun. Why? 120 minutes to do 15 heats and we still run out of time. It's wrong to make the public think they're getting value for money the longer they're out of the house, but most of the time is spent wishing they'd hurry up with the next race. I used to get annoyed by a race interrupting a good conversation 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 3 hours ago, Skid Sprocket said: You are right in all you say rules etc need changing including the BSPA but when I suggested a supporters group to try and influence the BSPA with clearly defined priority changes as a group (ok so it might not have worked) only one other forum member took the idea seriously. If a supporters "influence" group is a non starter then all we can do is try and encourage supporters through the turnstiles. The vast majority of the public dont even know they have a local speedway track. My idea is not to have other forms of entertainment but to get more kids aware of their local track. To be fair... If Thousands of fans NOT attending each week, every year, for the past 20 or so, and finding something else better to do, hasn't influenced them one iota... Not really sure what else will to be honest.... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 must admit when i hear gimmicks proposed, although meant well and i mean no disrespect, i despair - it should be a speedway meeting, don't need the white helmets, scooter racing, or anything else if the product s good. which it currently isnt of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skid Sprocket Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 31 minutes ago, ch958 said: must admit when i hear gimmicks proposed, although meant well and i mean no disrespect, i despair - it should be a speedway meeting, don't need the white helmets, scooter racing, or anything else if the product s good. which it currently isnt of course Referring to my idea can you explain where the "gimmick" would encroach on a speedway meeting? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 (edited) On 8/4/2018 at 3:40 PM, mikebv said: My lad plays Sunday League Football... His Club has teams from U8 to U18... There must be around 200 lads/girls in the whole of the Club.. They play in a League that has 40 teams per age group over Four Divisions.. Thats approx 400 different teams in total... That's approx 8000 lads and girls.. Many of the games are played on adjacent pitches so three times on a Saturday and on a Sunday all pitches are full of kids playing football, coaches coaching football and lots and lots of parents, guardians, friends, relatives etc etc of the kids watching football.. Why dont Speedway clubs sponsor their local League and set up 'roadshows' at the various game venues each weekend..? They could either do giveaways or flog £5.00 tickets for adults with kids free.. (These people invariably are not attending Speedway now so hardly any threat of loss of revenue I would suggest).. Plus you would get 'teams' turning up together which can only encourage further visits as individuals won't be 'the only kid there' which looks to be often the case currently.. (As BV have a football pitch in the middle of the track maybe they could even put some short games on during the interval or maybe a longer game before the Speedway starts)? It costs approx £3000 to pay for the end of season prize giving day trophies... My team (BV) must have circa 20 different football Leagues in and around the Gtr Manchester conurbation, in towns such as Stockport, Oldham, Rochdale, Salford, Inner City Mcr, Bolton, Wigan, Tameside... A huge amount of U18's to be made aware of the Sport and targeted... Add to Football, you have Rugby, Cricket, Hockey, Lacrosse and even Cycle Speedway Leagues, (many U18 riders of which don't attend Speedway)! (?)... There are lots of opportunities to get Speedway noticed in its local community with many not costing the earth to do so.. This is one of the best ways I can see of increasing future involvement of young people in the sport ( I know you feel the same Skid Sprocket ) probably it's the only way. With BV having a two-page spread in the SS this week, ideas like this would be one of the best ways of investing money locally / regionally. Edited August 5, 2018 by waytogo28 additional point made Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, Skid Sprocket said: Referring to my idea can you explain where the "gimmick" would encroach on a speedway meeting? well it doesn't encroach its just not what i go for. Besides if extras come for the gimmick, who's to say they'll come back unless the actual speedway is good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skid Sprocket Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 38 minutes ago, ch958 said: well it doesn't encroach its just not what i go for. Besides if extras come for the gimmick, who's to say they'll come back unless the actual speedway is good But you dont have to go and watch the kids on bikes if you dont want to. You dont know if any newcomer will come back you can only show them the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 i hear what you say i just think getting the core product right would preclude the need for gimmicks. But i accept it may be worth a go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skid Sprocket Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 (edited) 21 minutes ago, ch958 said: i hear what you say i just think getting the core product right would preclude the need for gimmicks. But i accept it may be worth a go Just to clarify I am wondering if you misunderstand me, I am not talking about having kids on bikes on a speedway meeting night, that would be a bit gimmicky, I am talking about weekends or when the track is not in use. Get them into the arena and maybe some of it will make them want to see more. You are right getting the core product right is a priority but all that seems to be out of our control as these forums just turn into a talking shop with as many different ideas as there are members. Edited August 5, 2018 by Skid Sprocket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 tracks not usually available outside of race night but if it is well good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 (edited) On 8/4/2018 at 8:52 PM, moxey63 said: I think we're going a bit far here by wanting other forms of entertainment. It's speedway ffs and there should be no reason to attract people for any other reason than watching a properly run sport. Speedway is thrilling, but the thrill goes for the newcomers the longer they have to stand around waiting for the next race. waste of time trying to introduce newcomers if you're going to instantly lose them. No gimmicks like double points, no teams being near the bottom after a few months and then signing a few better riders and coming good just at the right end of the season (I didn't even mention Poole). It's like Popeye eating some spinach and growing big muscles. The qualifying matches for the Play-Offs allows this. As long as the team gets there, even if they just scrape it with a much better side than began the season, then they are quids in. Belle Vue lost some fans that they managed to win back a few years ago when Wolves brought in Woffinden to eventually come good in the PO Final after BV had made all the running. Ridiculous. Get the rules right, make it simple, fewer gaps between heats and fewer restarts because of a rider getting a quicker start. There is nothing worse on a cold night than gaps between heats. Nothing worse on a cold night than gaps and having to watch someone trying to entertain you with another form of a show while there's a speedway match going on. Again, the latest BT Sport matches have overrun. Why? 120 minutes to do 15 heats and we still run out of time. It's wrong to make the public think they're getting value for money the longer they're out of the house, but most of the time is spent wishing they'd hurry up with the next race. Plays offs in other sports work great and have brought more fans into the sport but somehow in speedway people left because of them ..another only in speedway thing . I am amazed that this we not had record crowds this year after all we were told that thousands of fans left because of the double point rule ..surely they must have all come back now . As for people not liking gimmicks 20 -20 cricket is full of them like free hits power plays etc etc ..and is packing in the crowds with players earning massive money . Edited August 5, 2018 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, orion said: Plays offs in other sports work great and have brought more fans into the sport but somehow in speedway people left because of them ..another only in speedway thing . I am amazed that this we not had record crowds this year after all we were told that thousands of fans left because of the double point rule ..surely they must have all come back now . As for people not liking gimmicks 20 -20 cricket is full of them like free hits power plays etc etc ..and is packing in the crowds with players earning massive money . What you failed to mention though was the play off's weather permitting bring in clubs biggest crowds of the season, so they clearly do work. Problem is, enticing people through the gate for the rest of it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 2 hours ago, orion said: Plays offs in other sports work great and have brought more fans into the sport but somehow in speedway people left because of them ..another only in speedway thing . I am amazed that this we not had record crowds this year after all we were told that thousands of fans left because of the double point rule ..surely they must have all come back now . As for people not liking gimmicks 20 -20 cricket is full of them like free hits power plays etc etc ..and is packing in the crowds with players earning massive money . Why must we always bring in other sports to strengthen a point? Play-offs in speedway may result in the highest gates, but who can get excited in the majority of the season if teams just tootle and fiddle about to get into a ridiculous top four spot out of a seven team league? More teams will make the play-offs than don't this season and make the pretend excitement seem a little played out. It isn't really cut-throat stuff when there's such a target to aim at. Fans will be hard to win back after 15 years of having to put up with the farcical double bubble rule. It won't happen in the first season after it was kicked into the bin of bad ideas from speedway's past. Much of the damage of the last decade and half this gimmick caused is going to be hard to reverse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted August 6, 2018 Report Share Posted August 6, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, orion said: Plays offs in other sports work great and have brought more fans into the sport but somehow in speedway people left because of them ..another only in speedway thing . I am amazed that this we not had record crowds this year after all we were told that thousands of fans left because of the double point rule ..surely they must have all come back now . People always mention football, but playoffs do not decide League or Divisional Champions. So, why should speedway? Steve Edited August 6, 2018 by chunky 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted August 6, 2018 Report Share Posted August 6, 2018 7 hours ago, orion said: Plays offs in other sports work great and have brought more fans into the sport but somehow in speedway people left because of them ..another only in speedway thing . I am amazed that this we not had record crowds this year after all we were told that thousands of fans left because of the double point rule ..surely they must have all come back now . As for people not liking gimmicks 20 -20 cricket is full of them like free hits power plays etc etc ..and is packing in the crowds with players earning massive money . ...but am I correct in saying that Play-Offs in football, for example, decide who is to be promoted and relegated? Those teams that finish top of the table (whatever the league) are crowned champions unlike speedway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted August 6, 2018 Report Share Posted August 6, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, chunky said: People always mention football, but playoffs do not decide League or Divisional Champions. So, why should speedway? Steve ...just read your post and duplicated your view! Always amuses me when people compare the Play-Off system in speedway with football in particular. Not sure how other sports decide their champions however. Edited August 6, 2018 by steve roberts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted August 6, 2018 Report Share Posted August 6, 2018 My wife is the perfect speedway critic. If it's good, she'll get into it. If it isn't, she'll ignore it. The Swindon v Leicester match on BT the other week caused a lot of consternation on here because of the track etc, but there was one moment in it thst caused her to say "this is what annoys me about speedway", and that was when a race was stopped for moving at the start. This, seriously, has to stop happening. Whrn it does, everyone groans and gets annoyed. People aren't going to pay money and make an effort to watch something that makes them groan and get annoyed. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted August 6, 2018 Report Share Posted August 6, 2018 42 minutes ago, steve roberts said: ...just read your post and duplicated your view! Always amuses me when people compare the Play-Off system in speedway with football in particular. Not sure how other sports decide their champions however. Ice hockey I think use the league places to decide the play-off games and the winner of the play-offs are the champs.This seems to be the universal system in ice hockey,as far as I have seen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted August 6, 2018 Report Share Posted August 6, 2018 16 minutes ago, iris123 said: Ice hockey I think use the league places to decide the play-off games and the winner of the play-offs are the champs.This seems to be the universal system in ice hockey,as far as I have seen Yes I think you are right...used to follow the Ice Hockey scene in the UK (Oxford City 'Stars') but can you imagine the uproar in footballing circles if the team that finished top didn't end up as champions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted August 6, 2018 Report Share Posted August 6, 2018 36 minutes ago, iris123 said: Ice hockey I think use the league places to decide the play-off games and the winner of the play-offs are the champs.This seems to be the universal system in ice hockey,as far as I have seen 17 minutes ago, steve roberts said: Yes I think you are right...used to follow the Ice Hockey scene in the UK (Oxford City 'Stars') but can you imagine the uproar in footballing circles if the team that finished top didn't end up as champions! Ice Hockey has play-offs, but they don't decide the league champions. The league champions are the team who finish top of the league table, and the winners of the play-offs are the Play Off Champions. For example: 2016-17: Cardiff were League Champions and Sheffield were Play-Off Champions. Last year Cardiff won both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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