Grachan Posted July 29, 2018 Report Share Posted July 29, 2018 1 hour ago, Grand Central said: Yes but that individual would have needed to come to the conclusion you prefer. My guess is that the independent person is just have likely to have given preference to the Championship teams on Thursdays if it meant saving them. He may have thought that more important. It is just wishful thinking that the guy chosen would suddenly choose the 'right' path as you (or anyone else) might see it. He would just as easily go the opposite way. Preference was already given to Britain on Thursday nights. It was voted against by individual teams. Second division teams shouldn't have a problem with Thursdays for the top league because they shouldn't be using top division riders (and vice versa). Succesful clubs have been undermined by other clubs for about 10 years now, to the effect that all clubs are as unsuccesful now. Ten years ago crowds were good at many tracks. That success was voted away by the tracks that were less succesful. We had the tactical ride and 39.85 points limit inflicted on us to apoease Ipswich, who then dropped down anyway. We had the loss of losing a home point for winning by less than 6 inflicted on us to appease Lakeside, who promptly dropped down anyway. We had a decent top league 10 years ago and it was voted away at BSPA conferences, with the madness of changing the rules every year. A decent governing body would probably kept speedway as a sport thst appeals to the public, like it just about was 10 years ago. The second tier was also better. I used to go to Sheffield, and they had good riders riding against other decent teams with good up and coming riders like Nicki Pedersen and Tai Woffinden, who would excite, make a big impression, and then move up a league. That has gone now too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singy13 Posted July 29, 2018 Report Share Posted July 29, 2018 The heading is 'The continuing decline of speedway' and most of it is interesting reading...makes you wonder why decline is the keyword when so many obviously still love the sport? But it seems speedway is always used to a rollercoaster existence........attendances especially. I first met up with speedway at Workington in 1970.....the novelty of it had crowds in excess of 3,000..all mad for the Comets...I remember travelling watch Workington soccer team play at Crewe during that year, and decided to have a look at the Crewe Kings track en route.....did this and was surprised to see a bloke appear from a caravan next to the track....wow it was top Comet Bob Valentine who seemingly helped with Crewe track?..... great stuff and we had a good craic with 'Bluey'...... he mentioned he had been at Wolverhampton, so I asked what crowd did they get.....his answer of around 1000 shocked us...blimey 1st Division only pulling in that many?...we had 3 times that at Derwent Park.....but as the years rolled by those figures plunged..and that is what happens with speedway....the novelty wears off and is hard to rekindle.....what is the answer to maintain interest....I've no idea!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted July 29, 2018 Report Share Posted July 29, 2018 (edited) 49 minutes ago, singy13 said: The heading is 'The continuing decline of speedway' and most of it is interesting reading...makes you wonder why decline is the keyword when so many obviously still love the sport? But it seems speedway is always used to a rollercoaster existence........attendances especially. I first met up with speedway at Workington in 1970.....the novelty of it had crowds in excess of 3,000..all mad for the Comets...I remember travelling watch Workington soccer team play at Crewe during that year, and decided to have a look at the Crewe Kings track en route.....did this and was surprised to see a bloke appear from a caravan next to the track....wow it was top Comet Bob Valentine who seemingly helped with Crewe track?..... great stuff and we had a good craic with 'Bluey'...... he mentioned he had been at Wolverhampton, so I asked what crowd did they get.....his answer of around 1000 shocked us...blimey 1st Division only pulling in that many?...we had 3 times that at Derwent Park.....but as the years rolled by those figures plunged..and that is what happens with speedway....the novelty wears off and is hard to rekindle.....what is the answer to maintain interest....I've no idea!!!!! You mentioned novelty wearing off. That was what came out on top when the late Bob Radford was asked back in the early 70s to carry out a public survey of 500 people in the Halifax area. He was asked by promoters at the time Reg Fearman and Eric Boothroyd to carry it out as he worked in market research. People just said the novelty wore off. Many that were asked on the street also followed other sports. I suppose when you compare speedway with the other sports you're following, is that why the novelty wears? No idea how to avert this. Edited July 29, 2018 by moxey63 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topsoil Posted July 29, 2018 Report Share Posted July 29, 2018 I suppose the more you read and hear about continual decline, death knells and final nails in coffins, the more you will believe it. I don't know if it is a social media concept or the way society seems to be going in general, but everything is exaggerated. A genuine question to those who really know the correct position, i.e. promoters and people running clubs. Is the financial situation any worse now than it was, say, ten, twenty or thirty years ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted July 29, 2018 Report Share Posted July 29, 2018 8 minutes ago, topsoil said: I suppose the more you read and hear about continual decline, death knells and final nails in coffins, the more you will believe it. I don't know if it is a social media concept or the way society seems to be going in general, but everything is exaggerated. A genuine question to those who really know the correct position, i.e. promoters and people running clubs. Is the financial situation any worse now than it was, say, ten, twenty or thirty years ago? Don't think you will an answer from Promotions or people running Clubs unfortunately,the fans only get told anything when more money is required.Imo the financial situation has to have taken a hit Judgeing by crowd levels now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singy13 Posted July 29, 2018 Report Share Posted July 29, 2018 38 minutes ago, moxey63 said: You mentioned novelty wearing off. That was what came out on top when the late Bob Radford was asked back in the early 70s to carry out a public survey of 500 people in the Halifax area. He was asked by promoters at the time Reg Fearman and Eric Boothroyd to carry it out as he worked in market research. People just said the novelty wore off. Many that were asked on the street also followed other sports. I suppose when you compare speedway with the other sports you're following, is that why the novelty wears? No idea how to avert this. Whilst the actual racing was the main factor of your speedway fix......other factors had the crowd excited...sometimes incensed...and at Workington the original promoters, messrs. Thomas and Brownhutt, certainly knew how to fire up feelings during a meeting....e.g. home riders rushing to centre green phone to lambast ref... or an upset Comet racing into pits, apparently to sort out 'dirty' rival...it all made for excellent entertainment. I have read past posts with ref. to this and don't think such antics will ever surface as frequently again.....more's the pity. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 29, 2018 Report Share Posted July 29, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, topsoil said: I suppose the more you read and hear about continual decline, death knells and final nails in coffins, the more you will believe it. I don't know if it is a social media concept or the way society seems to be going in general, but everything is exaggerated. A genuine question to those who really know the correct position, i.e. promoters and people running clubs. Is the financial situation any worse now than it was, say, ten, twenty or thirty years ago? Sky pumped in Millions over many Seasons.... This is the first full Season without it... This money would have been very important I would suggest in keeping tracks open during the time of the contract... Edited July 29, 2018 by mikebv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted July 29, 2018 Report Share Posted July 29, 2018 1 hour ago, singy13 said: Whilst the actual racing was the main factor of your speedway fix......other factors had the crowd excited...sometimes incensed...and at Workington the original promoters, messrs. Thomas and Brownhutt, certainly knew how to fire up feelings during a meeting....e.g. home riders rushing to centre green phone to lambast ref... or an upset Comet racing into pits, apparently to sort out 'dirty' rival...it all made for excellent entertainment. I have read past posts with ref. to this and don't think such antics will ever surface as frequently again.....more's the pity. 2 It is great to have controversy, fisticuffs and storming the referee's box, but even that would wear off, especially if staged managed. Plus, the only time riders get heated nowadays is if they're running late for the flight to Poland. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted July 29, 2018 Report Share Posted July 29, 2018 5 hours ago, Grachan said: I don't jnow who Guy Nicholls is, but the big problem with the BSPA is that all the teams vote for themselves, so the weaker teams vote down the standard each year to try and give themselves a better chance. This happens year after year. This year's fix nights of Thursday being voted out by the weaker league should also never have been allowed to happen. It just needs someone more objective making decisions, rather than teams voting for themselves. Guy Nicholls is owner of TruPlant - long term sponsor of many high profile riders (originally thru Forkrent which he sold a few years ago in a multi million pound deal) and now also team sponsor at both Ipswich and Kings Lynn Also has a tipper and aggregates divisions Google it you will be impressed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted July 29, 2018 Report Share Posted July 29, 2018 5 hours ago, topsoil said: The kind of belief I've had for years. There is no way Britain can compete with Poland right now financially and if it did try to, if would be suicide. So start your own production line and get younger, cheaper, local riders, who young fans can relate to. Then if they go off and seek their fortune, you just get the next one off the line. Rugby league has done it for years. Losing their star players to the NRL of rugby union. Does it worry them? Never. They just replace them with the next youngster coming through. Every club should have a youth system after meetings. Give them as much track time as possible. Become self-sufficient and keep costs down that way. Great in principle but probably unrealistic in practice though there are teams who are at least starting to attempt that and the work Neil Vatcher is doing with the junior riders is excellent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk127 Posted July 29, 2018 Report Share Posted July 29, 2018 3 minutes ago, screm said: Great in principle but probably unrealistic in practice though there are teams who are at least starting to attempt that and the work Neil Vatcher is doing with the junior riders is excellent. Agree Neil does appear to be working hard for the future but these youngsters deserve some support on the terraces. Take a look at the 85 cc Gold Trophy that was raced at Rybinsk today. A decent crowd, big screen and although some of the racing is a bit processional (bit like British league racing) the crowd get behind the next generation. Why not have teams with different classes of bikes racing in a meeting. Four man teams at 125, 250 & 500cc with the aggregate points scored then determining who wins the match and the league points. Something different but isn’t that what is badly needed to reignite the interest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted July 29, 2018 Report Share Posted July 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hawk127 said: Agree Neil does appear to be working hard for the future but these youngsters deserve some support on the terraces. Take a look at the 85 cc Gold Trophy that was raced at Rybinsk today. A decent crowd, big screen and although some of the racing is a bit processional (bit like British league racing) the crowd get behind the next generation. Why not have teams with different classes of bikes racing in a meeting. Four man teams at 125, 250 & 500cc with the aggregate points scored then determining who wins the match and the league points. Something different but isn’t that what is badly needed to reignite the interest Regarding the four man teams with different bike sizes that is already happening in the Northern Junior League which I see on a regular bases at Berwick after the main meeting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk127 Posted July 29, 2018 Report Share Posted July 29, 2018 5 minutes ago, screm said: Regarding the four man teams with different bike sizes that is already happening in the Northern Junior League which I see on a regular bases at Berwick after the main meeting. A bit of a long way to go for those of us south of Ipswich and a pity that more clubs do not take a leaf out of the Northern Junior league book and put on a show featuring different levels of skill so that we get a chance to see the future on a regular basis, not just an ‘ as and when someone feels like it’. What is your opinion of the mixed racing and is it recorded or on YouTube? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted July 29, 2018 Report Share Posted July 29, 2018 1 hour ago, Hawk127 said: A bit of a long way to go for those of us south of Ipswich and a pity that more clubs do not take a leaf out of the Northern Junior league book and put on a show featuring different levels of skill so that we get a chance to see the future on a regular basis, not just an ‘ as and when someone feels like it’. What is your opinion of the mixed racing and is it recorded or on YouTube? We have mixed teams not mixed races so the 500cc riders race each other with lower cc`s racing each other. Berwick choose from a squad including Keiron Douglas, Leon Flint, Luke Ruddock, Harry McGurk, Sam McGurk and Luke Harrison, all of whom are now making strides in the sport. Sadly it isn't recorded on youtube though the rounds of the 250cc World Championships are live on Youtube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topsoil Posted July 29, 2018 Report Share Posted July 29, 2018 1 hour ago, screm said: Regarding the four man teams with different bike sizes that is already happening in the Northern Junior League which I see on a regular bases at Berwick after the main meeting. That's what I mean by every team having junior racing after the main events. You see how popular it is at Berwick, a lot of fans stay behind. Every team should strive to have a team in a Junior League. Regionalise it to save travelling. Even get teams like Reading, Weymouth involved to keep team names alive. Give teams a year or so notice to get things in place. Even let riders mix and match teams if needs be, as sometimes happens in the NJL at the moment, just give young riders as much track time as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topsoil Posted July 29, 2018 Report Share Posted July 29, 2018 4 hours ago, mikebv said: Sky pumped in Millions over many Seasons.... This is the first full Season without it... This money would have been very important I would suggest in keeping tracks open during the time of the contract... And the money went straight to GP riders, who aren't here any more. So do these cancel each other out? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 29, 2018 Report Share Posted July 29, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, topsoil said: And the money went straight to GP riders, who aren't here any more. So do these cancel each other out? I would say not... The inflated money that the GP riders got would have increased the salary expectations of the 'next level' of riders too. (And the same no doubt through all the levels)... And these 'next level' riders have now become the No1's in the main so salary expectations will be higher rather than lower I would imagine... And we still have GP riders Doyle, Cook (would have had Holder), and I am sure NKI who rode during the Sky Money days won't be earning loads less than two or three years ago... The difference is rather than payout the £100,000+ given to them via Sky they now have to find this themselves or to maintain the income/cost balance, reduce costs by around circa £3.5k per team per match.... (I would suggest not too many have been able to do that)... In fact, given the lower attendances reported down to the fixed nights being non weekend I would think even more costs now needs reducing to 'break even'... Edited July 29, 2018 by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted July 29, 2018 Report Share Posted July 29, 2018 On 7/28/2018 at 3:18 PM, moxey63 said: Speedway needs to cut its costs. Yep ..they done for the last 20 years ….nothing likes new ideas to bring fans back . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted July 29, 2018 Report Share Posted July 29, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, orion said: Yep ..they done for the last 20 years ….nothing likes new ideas to bring fans back . What have they done in the last 20 years to cut costs? And did any of these cost-cutting measures actually cut costs at the gate to stop the rot of fans who felt speedway wasn't value-for-money anymore? Cutting costs but putting up admission is a wrong blend. Edited July 29, 2018 by moxey63 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted July 29, 2018 Report Share Posted July 29, 2018 30 minutes ago, moxey63 said: What have they done in the last 20 years to cut costs? And these any of these cost-cutting measures actually cut costs at the gate to stop the rot of fans who felt speedway wasn't value-for-money anymore? Cutting costs but putting up admission is a wrong blend. ?? surely you noticed that the cost cutting has been making the teams a lower standard ..I though everyone knew that ..your plan is do the same again by making the league weaken again ..Yet again unless you been in a cave it's don't work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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