The continuing decline of Speedway

[Thornaby48]

What we have to be care full of is that we are not trying to reinvent the wheel. Basically speed way has existed for 90years as a team sport with 4 riders racing four laps scoring points for their team trying to win the league,  no fancy Mickey Mouse  gimmicks like bump starts or 8 riders in a race or female riders ( although if my memory serves me correctly Middlesbrough had a lady rider in the second half in the early  80's). You don't find the other major sports of football, rugby,or cricket worrying about attracting young fans and reinventing the basics of the sport.True cricket keeps trying to reinvent itself with the T20  and run yourself silly competitions, football doesn't say make the goals double the size and have 3 goalkeepers. So speed way must keep its basic format but alter the internal mechanics of the sport  such as guest riders, r/r etc. The people to blame for its demise are the promoters pure and simple and their lack of foresight and business sense.Speed way will   exist for many years to come  I am sure.

[winstoncigar]

4 minutes ago, Thornaby48 said:

What we have to be care full of is that we are not trying to reinvent the wheel. Basically speed way has existed for 90years as a team sport with 4 riders racing four laps scoring points for their team trying to win the league,  no fancy Mickey Mouse  gimmicks like bump starts or 8 riders in a race or female riders ( although if my memory serves me correctly Middlesbrough had a lady rider in the second half in the early  80's). You don't find the other major sports of football, rugby,or cricket worrying about attracting young fans and reinventing the basics of the sport.True cricket keeps trying to reinvent itself with the T20  and run yourself silly competitions, football doesn't say make the goals double the size and have 3 goalkeepers. So speed way must keep its basic format but alter the internal mechanics of the sport  such as guest riders, r/r etc. The people to blame for its demise are the promoters pure and simple and their lack of foresight and business sense.Speed way will   exist for many years to come  I am sure.

I'd put your tin helmet on if I were you

[Humphrey Appleby]

2 hours ago, Spl77 said:

Sadly the sport is way beyond what heat format should we use.... Major changes are required. 

I agree that the heat format isn't really the pressing issue. However, as we're discussing it, I don't think 13, 14, 15 or even 16 heat represents insufficient value for money if meetings are run swiftly as they should be, and by stringing things out to make them last longer, doesn't add any value and just annoys people. 

The problem is that an 18 and certainly a 20 heat match drags on a bit too long, especially if it's something of a one-sided contest. And of course, there's more chance of abandoned matches if inclement weather sets in. 

You could of course divide a meeting in two or three 'mini matches' with league points awarded for each, in order to keep interest and minimise one-sidedness, but again you could run into problem if there's a significant number of injuries. Plus devoting the whole meeting to one contest limits the opportunities for giving new riders some races.

I think something like a 14-heat match with a 6-heat support event would be optimal. In a perfect world you might run a juniors/reserves match as a prelude to the main match, but that would realistic require another 6-8 riders to be found with the associated travel costs. 

I personally think a 15-heat match, followed by a 5-heat hybrid individual/team knockout competition that includes riders from the main match with (say) 4 junior riders, and culminating in a 8-rider finale might be a fair division. This would contribute to some sort of national season-long ranking (maybe qualification for the Rider's Championship), but you wouldn't really want team mates racing each other, so points would have to be structured to encourage team mates in the same race to work together. Maybe you could use the same concept to award bonus league points.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Humphrey Appleby

[Thornaby48]

17 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Quite honestly, printed programmes should be a thing of the past, as they increasingly are in football. 

Make an app which allows people to follow the results online, and adds a bit of additional content, save the printing costs, and maybe charge a nominal seasonal subscription. 

I am of the older generation and my mobile phone is very basic, I don't want a fancy phone that does everything but make a simple call.I enjoy collecting the match programmes and filling them in and looking back at past meeting I have attended ( well over 1100) .Having said that for the modern generation it could be a good idea.

[uk_martin]

24 minutes ago, Thornaby48 said:

I am of the older generation and my mobile phone is very basic, I don't want a fancy phone that does everything but make a simple call.I enjoy collecting the match programmes and filling them in and looking back at past meeting I have attended ( well over 1100) .Having said that for the modern generation it could be a good idea.

Let me guess, you have a black & white television and don't fancy a modern curved screen OLED 4K TV with surround sound, as all you watch is Laruel & Hardy and Charlie Chaplin films?

Here's the news...the world has moved on, and belongs to those who move with it. Stand still (as speedway has) and you'll be left behind. Miles behind in speedway's case.

[Thornaby48]

26 minutes ago, uk_martin said:

Let me guess, you have a black & white television and don't fancy a modern curved screen OLED 4K TV with surround sound, as all you watch is Laruel & Hardy and Charlie Chaplin films?

Here's the news...the world has moved on, and belongs to those who move with it. Stand still (as speedway has) and you'll be left behind. Miles behind in speedway's case.

You know me too well ha ha

[moxey63]

1 hour ago, Big Al said:

So tell them that they are hard-working self-employed blokes who are only earning from it when when they are riding

You tell them. They've laughed at me enough.. 

[moxey63]

The sport cannot pay the type of wages riders demand. Having read the Chris Harris piece in last week's Star, saying he has never had a job outside speedway, that tells me he must have been paid quite a pretty penny to survive the winter months. Speedway's close season is longer than football's, remember, which we like to compare it with. Not saying the wages are even similar, but speedway must have paid well to make seven months work to keep you for 12.

[Humphrey Appleby]

2 hours ago, Thornaby48 said:

I am of the older generation and my mobile phone is very basic, I don't want a fancy phone that does everything but make a simple call.I enjoy collecting the match programmes and filling them in and looking back at past meeting I have attended ( well over 1100) .Having said that for the modern generation it could be a good idea.

You could have 1100 online programmes on a smart phone, and look back at them during the long gaps between heats to fill the time. 

I'm not actually unsympathetic as I still like filling in traditional programmes, but there comes a point when it's no longer economically viable to produce them for the number of patrons who'd purchase them. 

Edited July 26, 2018 by Humphrey Appleby

[lucifer sam]

4 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

I'm not actually unsympathetic as I still like filling in traditional programmes, but there comes a point when it's no longer economically viable to produce them for the number of patrons who'd purchase them. 

Looking at the current demographic stood out on the terraces, I don't think that's going to be any time soon.

Replacing programmes is the least of speedway's worries.

I would suggest the overall entertainment package, especially between the racing, is of far, far greater importance.

(PS Scunny programme is just £1 - contains racecard plus update from the promoter)

[ouch]

Some good points posted recently. To save quoting each one here is my bit 

I like programmes, always have, for any event I go to. The Aces one is excellent with lots to enjoy. I’d really miss it but I can also see the need for an app. I spoke to Dave Gordon about such a thing with us having WiFi in the stadium but unfortunately all that went along with him. 

I remembered the golden sash after meeting competition. Whether promoters didn’t pay well for it I don’t know but top riders often ducked out of it and it was soon dropped. 

I’ve said for years now that junior teams should be compulsory and it would be great if their (5 or 6) heats were interspersed in the main meeting. For the last two or three years, at Belle Vue at any rate meeting have been run very quickly, so I think it could be accommodated. There was a 15 heat Colts meeting last year ran in just over an hour. 

[Big Al]

4 hours ago, moxey63 said:

You tell them. They've laughed at me enough.. 

I do. Usually with both hands tightly around their throat

[steve roberts]

3 hours ago, uk_martin said:

Let me guess, you have a black & white television and don't fancy a modern curved screen OLED 4K TV with surround sound, as all you watch is Laruel & Hardy and Charlie Chaplin films?

Here's the news...the world has moved on, and belongs to those who move with it. Stand still (as speedway has) and you'll be left behind. Miles behind in speedway's case.

...I watch Laurel & Hardy and Chaplin movies  and have a collection of Super 8 movies, Video and DVDs featuring both and others. Doesn't mean I don't accept modern technology as I have just re-found model railways and enjoy the new improvisations and as a very keen photographer I am about to upgrade my digital camera. 

[Humphrey Appleby]

56 minutes ago, ouch said:

I remembered the golden sash after meeting competition. Whether promoters didn’t pay well for it I don’t know but top riders often ducked out of it and it was soon dropped. 

I’ve said for years now that junior teams should be compulsory and it would be great if their (5 or 6) heats were interspersed in the main meeting. For the last two or three years, at Belle Vue at any rate meeting have been run very quickly, so I think it could be accommodated. There was a 15 heat Colts meeting last year ran in just over an hour. 

I think it's well documented that promoters increasingly cut back on points/prize money for second-half races down the years, which contributed to riders increasingly taking them less seriously. And the likes of the Golden Sash also lacked meaningful context, and eventually morphed into the nominated heat if I remember correctly. 

A junior match interspersed within the main match would in principle allow things to run more quickly, as there would be less likelihood of riders having two rides on the trot. But there's still the added cost of having to pay for 6-8 extra riders, and more importantly have the costs of sending 3-4 extra riders around the country for away matches. 

[moxey63]

52 minutes ago, Big Al said:

I do. Usually with both hands tightly around their throat

They're not the hands strangling British speedway to death, are they?

[moxey63]

1 hour ago, steve roberts said:

...I watch Laurel & Hardy and Chaplin movies  and have a collection of Super 8 movies, Video and DVDs featuring both and others. Doesn't mean I don't accept modern technology as I have just re-found model railways and enjoy the new improvisations and as a very keen photographer I am about to upgrade my digital camera. 

Oh no... a speedway fan and model railways. 

Edited July 26, 2018 by moxey63

[Gemini]

11 hours ago, Thornaby48 said:

I quite agree about the cost of the programme.At Redcar  the programme is £2.50 and basically there is nothing in it. I always buy one ,I don't know how people can get full  enjoyment without one. Surely a basic score card with results and fixtures is all that is needed costing say £1.00. Does anybody really look at all the adverts in a programme, I dont

I thought the programme was about the only thing promoters could guarantee making a profit on, hence (up to this season) being very reluctant to let us know the actual riding order so we could print our own? Personally I'd rather just take a blank programme I've printed and fill the team in before the racing starts or during tractor breaks rather than buy a programme that I'm going to throw away as soon as I get home. I have actually done this when promoters have insisted on listing the team in alphabetical order just to be awkward because I can be just as awkward and won't be forced into buying something I don't want to. 

Edited July 26, 2018 by Gemini

[waytogo28]

And there you have it some promoters feel the need to be "awkward" or unhelpful even if you have paid a ticket to see the match! That is a way to build up your crowd levels. Do it "my way" or not at all is something we know all about at King's Lynn where much of the old Len Silver mode continues,  "don't come if you don't like it". And many have decided NOT to go because they don't like it.

[moxey63]

I was only thinking the other day about the Speedway Hotline, the premium-rate telephone service that used to keep you up to date with speedway news about 20 years ago. I only called it the once - to find out a result from somewhere - and couldn't believe the waffle you had to go through as your bill was ticking up just to find out what you actually wanted to know. I think most tracks had one, in addition to the national one provided by the BSPA. They don't half like ripping off fans. Thank god for the internet, eh.

Edited July 27, 2018 by moxey63

[steve roberts]

28 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

I was only thinking the other day about the Speedway Hotline, the premium-rate telephone service that used to keep you up to date with speedway news about 20 years ago. I only called it the once - to find out a result from somewhere - and couldn't believe the waffle you had to go through as your bill was ticking up just to find out what you actually wanted to know. I think most tracks had one, in addition to the national news provided by the BSPA. They don't half like ripping off fans. Thank god for the internet, eh.

...it's the same when you phone a utility company and all you want to do is talk to someone direct whilst the introductory waffling message gives you  a hundred and one different options and messages it's cost a tidy sum before you've got to where you wish to be.