GP qualifying - Changes needed?

[RPNY]

I know we could fill 1000 pages with the rights and wrongs of qualifying for the GP but  there's 1 issue in particular that I find a real shame... Speedway like many sports has a lot to do with who is on 'form' everything going right for them and therefore performing at their best. Cant help but feel that by qualifying 1 season for the NEXT season GPs, we get robbed of seeing a rider performing at their best. First time noticed it was in fact was 1995 when Joe Screen was on fire but then not quite the same rider in 1996. Hans Andersen a similar scenario in 2006/07 and there's been a good few others too. Cookie to a certain extent is a similar scenario this year.

So I guess the question is, would there be anyway of the  qualifiers being done at the start of the season? I know they need the winter to build sponsors etc & Its not a major issue, but was just wondering if there was any way around it?

[Bavarian]

Agree, it would be better as some riders seem to have only one really outstanding good season, and are unable to replicate this in the following years. For the European Championship (SEC) they do the qualifying rounds at the beginning of the season April / May, before the finals series begins. There is no reason why it couldn't be done in the same way for the SGP World Championship series.  

 

I'd like to see something else changed. Why not return to regionalised qualifyiers ? Would spare many a rider much unneccessary traveling.

Lets have three zones like we used to have many years ago, with a Continental Final, a Nordic Final, and an Overseas Final (in the UK), from where the top five riders qualify for the SGP Challenge.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Bavarian

[Bavarian]

An Overseas Final as an regional qualifying round before teh SGP Challenge would be a very attractive meeting in itself. As it would carry a title of its own (Overseas Champion) it is certainly more attractive than the current annonymous SGP Qualifying rounds. that we again have spread out across the continent, taking place in Slovakia, Germany, Denmark and Italy over this weekend.  

 

Imagine an annual Overseas Final with 6 British, 6 Australian, 2 USA, 1 New Zealand, and 1 Argentinean rider. (No places needed for Canada or South Africa at the moment)  

Top 5 from the Overseas Final to go through to the SGP Challenge.

 

Add the top 5 from a Nordic Final with 6 Danes, 6 Swedes, 2 Finns, and 2 Norwegians,

and with the top 5 from a highly competitive Continental Final with the top Poles, Russians, Czechs, Germans, and all the other European nations, who should probably contest some preliminatry roudns first, to give each nation a fair number of representatives.  

 

That makes 15 qualified riders for the SGP Challnege, plus one seeded rider of the host nation. Top 3 from the Challenge to qualify for the SGP as we have it. 

 

 

[Ghostwalker]

The reason why it isn't done the same season is because there aren't time to fit those meetings in before the
first GP and riders needs to have some time to organize themselves. I also would think that league clubs
would like to know what rider(s) are going to be riding in the SGP.

[Mark]

On 17/05/2018 at 7:18 PM, Tex said:

I know we could fill 1000 pages with the rights and wrongs of qualifying for the GP but  there's 1 issue in particular that I find a real shame... Speedway like many sports has a lot to do with who is on 'form' everything going right for them and therefore performing at their best. Cant help but feel that by qualifying 1 season for the NEXT season GPs, we get robbed of seeing a rider performing at their best. First time noticed it was in fact was 1995 when Joe Screen was on fire but then not quite the same rider in 1996. Hans Andersen a similar scenario in 2006/07 and there's been a good few others too. Cookie to a certain extent is a similar scenario this year.

So I guess the question is, would there be anyway of the  qualifiers being done at the start of the season? I know they need the winter to build sponsors etc & Its not a major issue, but was just wondering if there was any way around it?

As Ghost says there is no time to fit the meetings into the schedule although that could be changed.   But main issue is team places and no time to get sponership.    Good idea but dont think it could work

[HenryW]

Personally, I think the problem is the limit of 15 riders in the series.

During the years where they used the 24 rider knock out format it seemed like it worked better for having the right riders in and also allowed more fresh faces in. 

15 permanent riders just feels too limiting...

[Mark]

24 riders is a waste of cash.  Fringe riders not keen to travel for maybe just two rides before elimination.  Mark Loram said it was pointless for him. 

[Bavarian]

The current formula in the SGP with sixteen riders, twenty heats, two semis, and the final, and all points scored counting for the world cahmpionship is simply the best they ever had.

  

[Mark]

the worst format was when riders deliberately got beat to keep gate one in the next heat.   Rickardson was the main rider doing that.  Boring to see him trap out from the best gate in each heat.     Easier to win a world title in those days.

[Starman2006]

So can anybody please tell me where to find the results of the GP qualifying can be found ?

[MattK]

7 minutes ago, Starman2006 said:

So can anybody please tell me where to find the results of the GP qualifying can be found ?

https://sportowefakty.wp.pl/zuzel/relacja/85381/1-runda-el-do-gp-2019-w-arnowicy

https://sportowefakty.wp.pl/zuzel/relacja/85382/2-runda-el-do-gp-2019-w-slangerup

https://sportowefakty.wp.pl/zuzel/relacja/85383/3-runda-el-do-gp-2019-w-lonigo

[MattK]

4th round here:

https://sportowefakty.wp.pl/zuzel/relacja/85384/4-runda-el-do-gp-2019-w-abensbergu

[Starman2006]

59 minutes ago, MattK said:

4th round here:

https://sportowefakty.wp.pl/zuzel/relacja/85384/4-runda-el-do-gp-2019-w-abensbergu

Thanks mate..

[HenryW]

11 hours ago, Bavarian said:

The current formula in the SGP with sixteen riders, twenty heats, two semis, and the final, and all points scored counting for the world cahmpionship is simply the best they ever had.

  

I agree that the current format and point scoring system is the best they have had, as it ensures every race means something in the title chase.

I should maybe clarify that I wasn't advocating a return to the old 24 rider format that they used to use, just pointing out that having those extra riders allowed more scope for form riders and fresh faces.

For me, a system that allowed more riders to be involved would be good, but it would need some novel approach not to lose the good things we currently have, and would probably add too much expense, as mentioned by Mark. 

[enotian]

On ‎5‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 10:24 PM, HenryW said:

I agree that the current format and point scoring system is the best they have had, as it ensures every race means something in the title chase.

I should maybe clarify that I wasn't advocating a return to the old 24 rider format that they used to use, just pointing out that having those extra riders allowed more scope for form riders and fresh faces.

For me, a system that allowed more riders to be involved would be good, but it would need some novel approach not to lose the good things we currently have, and would probably add too much expense, as mentioned by Mark. 

Friday night/Saturday afternoon qualifier??? i.e. whenever practice is held.

Bottom 8 from the last GP have to qualify against another 8 permanent riders/local wildcard(s). Need to decide what happens when a wildcard finishes in the top 8 but should make those semi final places even more fiercely contested.

If you look at other motorsports their content is across a whole weekend with sports channels covering testing and qualifying sessions.

Likewise would supporters attend both meetings therefore funding the additional costs?

[Humphrey Appleby]

38 minutes ago, enotian said:

Likewise would supporters attend both meetings therefore funding the additional costs?

Who'd pay to watch speedway qualifying meetings on Fridays? 2-day events have rarely been successful in speedway for whatever reasons, and even if you held a qualifier, it still wouldn't offer enough places to provide reasonable opportunities to a broad spectrum of candidates. 

[enotian]

On ‎5‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 12:26 PM, Bavarian said:

An Overseas Final as an regional qualifying round before teh SGP Challenge would be a very attractive meeting in itself. As it would carry a title of its own (Overseas Champion) it is certainly more attractive than the current annonymous SGP Qualifying rounds. that we again have spread out across the continent, taking place in Slovakia, Germany, Denmark and Italy over this weekend.  

 

Imagine an annual Overseas Final with 6 British, 6 Australian, 2 USA, 1 New Zealand, and 1 Argentinean rider. (No places needed for Canada or South Africa at the moment)  

Top 5 from the Overseas Final to go through to the SGP Challenge.

 

Add the top 5 from a Nordic Final with 6 Danes, 6 Swedes, 2 Finns, and 2 Norwegians,

and with the top 5 from a highly competitive Continental Final with the top Poles, Russians, Czechs, Germans, and all the other European nations, who should probably contest some preliminatry roudns first, to give each nation a fair number of representatives.  

 

That makes 15 qualified riders for the SGP Challnege, plus one seeded rider of the host nation. Top 3 from the Challenge to qualify for the SGP as we have it. 

 

 

This whole GP qualification could be run over one weekend from the same location. How about top 3 from the Overseas, Nordic, Continental & European finals, plus 4 from a last chance meeting for those finishing 4th to 8th in the first 4 meetings.  With the final being re-christened the Inter-Continental Final.

6 meetings over 2 or 3 days.  TV coverage by pay-per-view? If the sports channels don't want to cover it. Make it a speedway festival and curtain raiser for the GP series. Sell weekend tickets to cover all 6 meetings, you might even get cities to bid to be hosts.

It would certainly cut down the amount of travelling for riders and reduce their unavailability for league fixtures.

[enotian]

5 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Who'd pay to watch speedway qualifying meetings on Fridays? 2-day events have rarely been successful in speedway for whatever reasons, and even if you held a qualifier, it still wouldn't offer enough places to provide reasonable opportunities to a broad spectrum of candidates. 

I can see people wanting "to make a weekend of it" often the cost of travel is more significant than the overnight stay.  Like those who do the pairs meeting in Somerset the night before Cardiff, admittedly not on the scale required.

And the Friday night/Saturday afternoon qualifier would have some big names in it.  For example the qualifier in Prague this weekend would have Jason Doyle trying to reach the GP.

Yes it would only increase the regular participants to 22/23 riders assuming there'd be at least one local wildcard but would you really need any more than that without diluting the quality? 

[Humphrey Appleby]

31 minutes ago, enotian said:

Yes it would only increase the regular participants to 22/23 riders assuming there'd be at least one local wildcard but would you really need any more than that without diluting the quality? 

How would those riders be paid for, given that 24 rider fields weren't financially viable before?

And you'd still have the problem that the 24 riders would have to be hand-picked, which doesn't improve the current situation much whilst greatly increasing costs.

To have a reasonably inclusive field drawing from various national nominations, you really need to have a minimum of 48 riders and that's not going to be financially viable for any organiser, especially those outside of Europe. 

[Humphrey Appleby]

36 minutes ago, enotian said:

I can see people wanting "to make a weekend of it" often the cost of travel is more significant than the overnight stay. 

You might see it, but history would suggest that 2-day speedway meetings aren't well supported. For some reason there's more of culture of it in ice racing, but there's presumably a reason why it doesn't happen much in speedway.