GregoryM Posted May 23, 2018 Report Share Posted May 23, 2018 1 hour ago, colin wood said: It's the attitude of the BSPA which annoys me most.That fans will accept a team of 3 guests and still turn up.Yes I went on Monday as usual but I never thought I was watching a proper Belle Vue team.It could easily have been avoided. This is very true and the match going ahead as it did begs so many questions. 1. Why was this date to hold a rearranged fixture (postponed on 9 April) even considered if there was a possibility of riders missing? 2. Did the FIM consult the BSPA re: riders having fixtures already booked in the UK in order to avoid them taking part in the only Monday round of GP Qualifying? 3. If so, did the BSPA respond? 4. If the BSPA were consulted and didn't provide the inormation, why? 5. Was any attempt made by Belle Vue to ask King's Lynn for a postponement when it became known Cook & Fricke were missing? 6. If so, did King's Lynn refuse? 7. If Belle Vue didn't ask King's Lynn, why? 8. Did / will the BSPA make any representation to the FIM to avoid such scenarios in the future of having riders taken away on our fixed race nights? 9. If not, can we conclude that the BSPA really don't give a t*ss about the credibility of the sport in the UK, and what supporters have to put up with? On the surface it just seems a little 'strange' that the match went ahead when it involved the BSPA chairman's team, and they were the team most likely to benefit. All of the above is down to the administration, running and credibility of our beloved sport. What happened or might have happened out on track is another thing of course. As far as the actual match itself is concerned, as someone has said, there is no guarantee that the Aces would have won with a full team (inc R/R for Stevie Worrall) anyway. Brady Kurtz scored 9+1 from 4 rides, which is probably what Cookie would have scored. Jason Garrity (and eventually IRR) for Stevie scored 5+1. Yes, you can argue Stevie would have scored more, but remember the R/R rides for him in the 50-40 win v Swindon on TV only produced 2+1 !! Josh G scored 3, 3, 0, 0 = 6 and you could argue that Max Fricke might have scored more. Had Josh / Max scored 9 then Aces won have won 46-44. All the other incidents with Drozdz's engine probs, Jye breaking the tapes and Rohan not turning his fuel on at the start of heat 5 had nothing to do with the guests and would most likely have happened anyway. So there is a strong possibility that the Stars might have won v the regular Aces team. Fair play to them that they were definitely the better all-round team on the night. So had the Stars won against the 'real' Aces team, it would have been an even more creditable and 'real' result, and the debate about the rights and wrongs wouldn't be taking place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin wood Posted May 23, 2018 Report Share Posted May 23, 2018 I was very impressed with the Kings Lynn side and as you say even with a full team we may have lost.But the match would have had more credibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted May 23, 2018 Report Share Posted May 23, 2018 3 hours ago, colin wood said: It's the attitude of the BSPA which annoys me most.That fans will accept a team of 3 guests and still turn up.Yes I went on Monday as usual but I never thought I was watching a proper Belle Vue team.It could easily have been avoided. BUT there are lots of fans who won't accept a team with three guests ... especially their own team 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted May 23, 2018 Report Share Posted May 23, 2018 By On 20/05/2018 at 12:59 PM, GregoryM said: Spot on mikebv. I made a comment in a post back in August 2015 that I thought the league table was a 'mysterious work of fiction'. When asked 'why?' I wrote this below, and still some other contributors didn't seem to accept the points I was making. Thankfully the Double Points Tac Ride has now gone, but I do think many speedway fans really can't see the wood for the trees. I will admit I'll still be there tomorrow night but only because it is at the NSS. I do enjoy it but I now treat each match as an individual night of entertainment, and all thoughts of it being a bona fide league competition were dispelled in my mind a long time ago. Had we still been at the Dog Track then I definitely wouldn't be there. Report post Posted August 20, 2015 Sorry, been away for a few days – but you ask why the league table is ‘a work of mysterious fiction’. FICTION 1. GUESTS In modern day speedway our teams are, for whatever reason, increasingly NOT racing against their opponents’ declared 1-7s, with guests being employed in numerous matches week-in, week-out. Infact, whenever there is a match without any guests and / or R/R it is noted as being somewhat remarkable. Last night’s postponed match at Belle Vue, for example, was set to be the Aces 13th home Elite League match of the season. Had it gone ahead, the 13 matches would have seen the opponents arrive at Kirky Lane with 12 guests and 2 operating R/R. In another example, in the four Belle Vue / Lakeside matches this season there were 12 guests used and 2 R/Rs!! What makes the situation look even sillier with guests is that you might see a particular rider at your track guesting for an opponent, but is then absent when his own team visits. Or your own team has a rider missing at an away track, but then he appears at that track guesting for someone else. The choice of guests is, quite understandably, made on a ‘horse-for-courses’ basis wherever possible and a team may well have a guest rider in its line-up at a particular track where he performs considerably better than the rider he’s replaced. So if the ‘real’ Team A isn’t taking on the ‘real’ Team B the result can hardly be ‘real’ and so have little credibility. The result is likely to bear no resemblance when teams are full of guests to what it would have been with their own riders - so the result becomes a work of fiction of sorts. 2. DOUBLE POINTS TACTICAL RIDE RULE Yes here we are again - but if a team ‘wins’ 47-46 by virtue of using this rule then in reality out on the track they’ve actually lost 44-46. What is worse is that if their opponents are the home team, they’re considered to have ‘lost’ and get no match points at all - despite scoring a real match winning total of 46 points out on the track. Absolutely ridiculous!!!! And yet more fiction. MYSTERIOUS The mystery is how supporters continue to have the patience to put up with it? It certainly isn’t doing any favours in attracting new supporters. Over the years I’ve taken several ‘first-timers’ to speedway and, for the most part, they’ve enjoyed the spectacle. Get onto explaining the rules and answering their questions about team line-ups and they soon lose interest. I took a couple to a double header at Belle Vue last season (I think it was last season) and two riders were riding as guests for one team in the first match and then for their own team in the second – the couple were very confused to say the least and just laughed in my face when I explained things to them. ‘How on earth can you take speedway seriously’ they asked. I really didn’t have an answer. Anyhow, I’ll continue to enjoy speedway match by match and try to put out of my mind just how a team has been cobbled together for that particular night. It's not something to agree or disagree on, it's not opinion. The current guest / double points tactical ride systems make the league table a 'mysterious work of fiction'. No if's or buts about it. Did u tell your friends how little money speedway in the UK has to chuck about, how we are competing for the services of riders with the other nations, other comps etc, how we try to keep our team strengths matched, how expensive the bikes are, how our stadiums are not speedway only stadiums etc etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted May 23, 2018 Report Share Posted May 23, 2018 1 hour ago, PHILIPRISING said: BUT there are lots of fans who won't accept a team with three guests ... especially their own team Can you find out whether the BSPA have any say over which rider races in which qualifier and whether the FIM considers league meetings when scheduling their meetings please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin wood Posted May 23, 2018 Report Share Posted May 23, 2018 If they don't BV were really unlucky that Craig and Max were drawn in the same round on Monday night! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted May 24, 2018 Report Share Posted May 24, 2018 14 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said: BUT there are lots of fans who won't accept a team with three guests ... especially their own team Yes. And why should they. I definitely don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted May 24, 2018 Report Share Posted May 24, 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said: BUT there are lots of fans who won't accept a team with three guests ... especially their own team I think those lads four words are very pertinent... In the BV Select v KL match it was unusual for the HOME team to run a fixture with missing riders. . Usually it's the AWAY team who will turn up with a 'select' team... I can only presume the away teams agree to the fixture, knowing they have riders missing, because it won't actually effect their business directly through the turnstiles that evening.... As well as, depending on the technical nature of the track, allow them to hire some ringers for the night. Which ironically may get them a victory which could actually encourage an improved crowd number attends their next home meeting!... (And maybe if a No1 is missing for them it may actually save them money too!?)... Maybe I am being too cynical and none of the above is correct and it is just an oversight, incompetence or simply a 'fait accompli' that sees so many meetings ran with guest riders... Not a great way collectively to run a business that relies on crowd numbers to be successful though is it? Edited May 24, 2018 by mikebv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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