orion Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, mikebv said: Simply do what is so obviously the thing to do when running a Motorsport business.. Run Friday and Saturday nights, and Sunday late afternoon, with riders who are 100% available EVERY week And run on EVERY Bank Holiday, THE most lucrative days to attract crowds out looking to be entertained.. Have a salary cap per team of £5k a match, meaning if they ran five man teams (to spread the riders) the 'Mr Average' rider would earn £2k a week in the two matches over each weekend. At a pay scale structure of £1500, 1250, 1000, 750, 500 per night. I am pretty sure you would get plenty of interest from many riders of a more than 'reasonable level'.. Maybe not the 'superstars', but they earn vast amounts in Poland so wouldn't be interested anyway.. And Poland may pay more than £3k in the 2nd and 3rd Divisions for one meeting but you are often only one bad meeting away from earning ZERO the week after, so a No1 who is guaranteed £3k EVERY week would find it a decent proposition I would suggest.. Charge £15 per adult and nothing for kids 16 and under. Generating £14.4k after VAT for a 1200 crowd. Thus leaving £4.4k towards your running costs after paying out to the riders for two meetings... 1. Run on days which can generate the best crowds.. 2. Run with teams full of riders who are 100% committed to British Speedway.. 3. Charge a maximum of £15 to get in with kids free.. Surely worth a go? And let's face it if you tick those three boxes and it still doesn't work, then you might as well give up, (but at least you would know you tried).. However, with the current operating model you simply have no chance of ever being successful.. First of all you can't speedway with other motor sports as there nothing like it that includes 7 man teams in 3 different leagues with riders in other leagues all over Europe . Wage caps will never work as clubs would just pay cash in hand like they always done ..People don't want to see 5 riders of poor standard who turn up every week other wise the Nl would be packed with people rather than one man and his dog watching . The bottom is line your never going to get full sides that run on the best race nights . People don't like it but unless the standard of rider and teams get better the crowds never will ..of course the old speedway fan thinks people will turn up to watch anyone because they will Edited May 18, 2018 by orion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midland Red Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 The SGB twitter feed states "Just the two fixtures this Friday" Doesn't that give an indication of exactly where it's gone wrong? Second tier meetings at Glasgow and Scunthorpe - that's all there is on this Friday night Forget Monday/Thursday or Monday/Wednesday - racing should be available in particular on Friday and Saturday nights, that's when bigger attendances can be achieved I remember the dreadful attendances at Brandon for Monday Sky meetings - barely a quarter of what could be expected on a Friday or Saturday One big league, on nights to suit the operators - with riders committed to the British League 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 16 minutes ago, Midland Red said: The SGB twitter feed states "Just the two fixtures this Friday" Doesn't that give an indication of exactly where it's gone wrong? Second tier meetings at Glasgow and Scunthorpe - that's all there is on this Friday night Forget Monday/Thursday or Monday/Wednesday - racing should be available in particular on Friday and Saturday nights, that's when bigger attendances can be achieved I remember the dreadful attendances at Brandon for Monday Sky meetings - barely a quarter of what could be expected on a Friday or Saturday One big league, on nights to suit the operators - with riders committed to the British League I could not believe that there are only two meetings on tonight, a nice friday evening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 35 minutes ago, Midland Red said: The SGB twitter feed states "Just the two fixtures this Friday" Doesn't that give an indication of exactly where it's gone wrong? Second tier meetings at Glasgow and Scunthorpe - that's all there is on this Friday night Forget Monday/Thursday or Monday/Wednesday - racing should be available in particular on Friday and Saturday nights, that's when bigger attendances can be achieved I remember the dreadful attendances at Brandon for Monday Sky meetings - barely a quarter of what could be expected on a Friday or Saturday One big league, on nights to suit the operators - with riders committed to the British League How many league matches in Denmark and Sweden tonight ? ..we have a league with riders committed to British speedway on nights to suit operators it's called the Nl and the crowds are poor, and if we have one big league with the riders who would leave these shores the standard would only just be above that. And that if you get enough riders to fill every spot seeing we can't even do that now 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midland Red Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 Where are all these riders going to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midland Red Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 So Poland and Sweden have team places available do they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Fred Flange said: They will all go to Poland and Sweden because its dead easy to get a team spot paying 4x UK speedway, they don't go there now because they like the fixed race nights better than 4x pay. Ask onion, he will explain it much more betterer than me. I expect Fricke , , Bewley would from your side ,cook out's because he's a gp rider and then you also lose your pole so that would be 4 out of your 7 for a start that not even thinking if the other 3 double up .riders don't do that now because they have a choice and earn more money by topping it up in the uk . ...we don't enough riders now but somehow we going to have enough good riders to fill the league once we got rid of all the riders who would have to commit to Sweden ,Denmark ,Poland ,Gp's riders We have had one big league before and it was a shambles for reasons that have been given many times ,,but now 20 years later people for reason unknown people think it will work . Edited May 18, 2018 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Midland Red said: So Poland and Sweden have team places available do they? Once all the riders that are lost to Poland Sweden Denmark Gp's etc also don't forget you have take out the riders from the teams who double up at the moment ..let us see your all the teams for this one big league that you have in mind ? Also tell us how this big league would work now seeing it never last time ? Edited May 18, 2018 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midland Red Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 Perhaps use all the Polish and Swedish riders who lose their team places to those "leaving these shores" How can you justify a Friday night with just two meetings in Britain - a Friday night when the kids have no school tomorrow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, Midland Red said: Perhaps use all the Polish and Swedish riders who lose their team places to those "leaving these shores" How can you justify a Friday night with just two meetings in Britain - a Friday night when the kids have no school tomorrow As I said before ..How many Meetings in Denmark and Sweden are on a Friday they don't find it a problem ...it's easy to justify when you see all the riders who missed matches on Fridays last year replacing them with guests and RR all the time ..time has moved on the uk can't run speedway with decent teams at the weekends anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midland Red Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 So your answer is to run on nights the fans clearly don't want, or can't attend That sounds like a plan devised by the BSPA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted May 18, 2018 Report Share Posted May 18, 2018 13 minutes ago, Midland Red said: So your answer is to run on nights the fans clearly don't want, or can't attend That sounds like a plan devised by the BSPA What is your answer..to keep running matches with half the teams missing each week ? or one big league that never worked before and would be of a very low standard and maybe not even enough riders ? For all the moaning people never come up with any answers that work .last year moan moan moan about guests and rr so they try to make a change to help that and then people moan about fixed race nights .as I said if the rule charges back people will no doubt moan about all the guests and rr and ask why no one is doing anything about it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted May 19, 2018 Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 Better fixture planning in previous years would have reduced the amount of clashes resulting in guests. Much like this year it wouldn’t have eradicated them but we didn’t need to go to the extreme of FRN. Having a big league of 19 teams would work fine, just as it did in 1976. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted May 19, 2018 Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 The biggest problems we have with our sport is the BSPA is run by people who think only of themselves and their own clubs, Such a short sighted vision, that has controlled all that is wrong for more years than can by remembered. In no other sport would it be possible for the 'lower level' to control the top teams just because of their numbers. But in speedway its all to obvious, even a blind man can see it. Our sport is riddled with 'on the minute' rule changes , brought in on a whim, without being properly thought though. We all hope next year they will get it right , but inevitably it is the same shambolic existence... And that's the way out sport continues. The sport needs some stability, and to do that we need structure and vision for the future. Unfortunately, I don't see any of them virtues in the BSPA. Their motto appears to be live today and let tomorrow take care of itself. In an ideal world an ' Independent Governing Body' , would solve most of the ingrown problems. but we know that will never happen. So the alternative has to be a structure set in stone. Rules that would need 12months notice for any changes, and then needing a big percentage of votes before implementing.. Example: The league to consist of 3 divisions, Each year 1 team gets promoted and 1 relegated. The top league will race on Thursday & Friday , 2nd division will race on Monday, Tuesday Wednesday & Saturday ; 3rd Division Sundays (Days that can be recognised in Europe) Riders are to be free agents, to sign 12 mth contract only, and be allowed to sign for 2 UK leagues only. If there were fixture clashes then the top team would always take preference. Rolling CMA to the over 12 matches within the last 18 months. Team strength to be set at 45 pts.. Riders with no current CMA would be assessed by a representative committee .on an agreed structure... These are only an example of a structure laid down, but once these fundamentals were set in stone, the only issues to be sorted at the AGM is day to day running of the sport... Everyone would know all the rules, everyone would know the future, and each club would want to progress to the top league.... Hopefully this could end all the problems we experience at present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midland Red Posted May 19, 2018 Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 9 hours ago, orion said: What is your answer..to keep running matches with half the teams missing each week ? or one big league that never worked before and would be of a very low standard and maybe not even enough riders ? For all the moaning people never come up with any answers that work .last year moan moan moan about guests and rr so they try to make a change to help that and then people moan about fixed race nights .as I said if the rule charges back people will no doubt moan about all the guests and rr and ask why no one is doing anything about it . Guests and rr were mainly caused by doubling up - one league would solve that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 valve Posted May 19, 2018 Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 12 minutes ago, Midland Red said: Guests and rr were mainly caused by doubling up - one league would solve that The fixed race nights also deals as adequately with Guests & RR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted May 19, 2018 Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 16 minutes ago, Midland Red said: Guests and rr were mainly caused by doubling up - one league would solve that Would it .we have not got enough riders in the first place and having a big league would make it worst .as I said give me a laugh and give me these 7 man teams in this one big league taking away all the riders who would be lost under this new rule ..where are these new riders coming from seeing we have not got enough at the moment ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray c Posted May 19, 2018 Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 Perhaps it is time to downgrade our speedway to a sustainable level because like many people have said it's dying on it's feet ? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2 Posted May 19, 2018 Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 25 minutes ago, orion said: Would it .we have not got enough riders in the first place and having a big league would make it worst .as I said give me a laugh and give me these 7 man teams in this one big league taking away all the riders who would be lost under this new rule ..where are these new riders coming from seeing we have not got enough at the moment ? Insufficient riders is a myth. There are plenty for one big league, especially if we have fixed race nights of Monday and Thursday and two NL Brits at reserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted May 19, 2018 Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 23 minutes ago, ray c said: Perhaps it is time to downgrade our speedway to a sustainable level because like many people have said it's dying on it's feet ? The reason speedway is dying on its feet as it keeps getting downgraded ..its been the same plan for the last 20 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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